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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => Problems - Questions - Problems - Questions? => Topic started by: Wattywatts on October 26, 2015, 06:31:24 PM

Title: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 26, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
Hi I've just made my first cheddar, from a kit. It's been drying for about 8 days and the last two days seems to be dry enough as it is now quite sticky but also starting to get quite a lot of mold. I've been wiping the mold off with a paper towel soaked in salted water.
The cheese is pretty much the same colour as it started apart from the edges which have started to rind and gone yellow.
My questions are:
Is it ok to seal it in a vac bag or wax even though it hasn't gotten a rind all over?
If I store it in a vac bag in a fridge at 10 degrees, does it matter about humidity as surely being in a sealed vacuum bag the humidity won't affect it?
Many thanks for any replies
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on October 26, 2015, 09:15:22 PM
It sounds like you have a bit too high of humidity in the first place. What i would do is use a new brush, either a fingernail type or larger, and brush the mold back. If it keeps coming strong and/or the rind seems wet, lower the humidity.

You can seal or wax at this point if you make sure the rind is completely dry first. Generally, for the ideal cheese it's best to wait around three weeks before sealing in wax or plastic, as the ripening bacteria do their work during that period and need oxygen exchange.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 26, 2015, 10:44:51 PM
Awesome. Thank you I will try that, there seems so many different opinions on how long to wait before sealing. What is your ideal humidity for drying as its about 70 here now.
Thanks again
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Gregore on October 27, 2015, 03:54:45 AM
At 70 percent , with a cheese so young you risk it cracking , raise the humidity up a little by putting it into its own container with a lid . It will still dry out but more evenly and not so fast that the surface dries out .

And 3 weeks sounds about right to me , but the longer you  can wait the better 

and yes after you vacuum bag you can store it in any humidity .  But at fridge temps expect it to take a little longer to age out .
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on October 27, 2015, 03:56:30 AM
I normally let cheese sit out on the counter, which i think is around 60% or so here, for a day or tow until it's not moist into surface, then move into ripening boxes aiming for about 85% humidity. Rule of thumb: if it cracks, too humid, if you have more than three types of mold growing rapidly, too high.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 27, 2015, 07:40:53 AM
Thank you both. I've moved it into another room now and it seems to have slowed the mold down. I will wait a bit longer before sealing, would there be any reason why it wouldn't all turn yellow/rind like the edges have? Is there anything I can do to ensure it does?
Thanks again
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on October 27, 2015, 05:45:38 PM
Too humid. Apart from that corners will normally be darker, but the color should even out fairly quickly if you have dry enough.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 29, 2015, 10:49:41 PM
Aarrrggghhhh this was starting to look ok. Seemed to be hardening up and drying out tidy, but now I have luminous yellow mould on it, is there anything I can do?
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Gregore on October 30, 2015, 05:12:31 AM
just give it a wipe or brush off, what ever works the best you could also give it a light wipe with vinager let it sit for and her or so then wipe it off and dry it .

as it is it will not harm your cheese other than change the flavor near the area effected .
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 30, 2015, 09:32:48 AM
Thanks for the reply. I read elsewhere that it was a bad one to have so I ended up cutting all the rind off, hopefully I haven't ruined it
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: awakephd on October 30, 2015, 02:13:29 PM
Next time, just rub off the mold using vinegar, vinegar+salt, or white wine. Don't cut the rind off until you are ready to eat the cheese -- if the rind is intact, it helps to act as a barrier. Molds grow on the outside, but the paste on the inside is protected.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on October 30, 2015, 03:02:15 PM
Yeah, now would be a good time to wax or vacuum seal.  :-\ The rind acts as a barrier against molds, and you work towards that after pressing, particularly when brining. It's not dangerous, but tastes not super nice; just trim the rind off when you're ready to eat it next time.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on October 30, 2015, 08:54:17 PM
Doh! Ok so is what I read about the luminous yellow mould being really bad not right? Will a new rind grow, should I wait for that ir just vacuum pack now?
Thanks again for the help
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Gregore on October 31, 2015, 04:07:52 AM
There no such thing as a bad mold on cheese , only molds that do not taste very good . I do believe that the yellow is even a mold.

Rind is like the skin we have on our bodies keeps us safe from intruders.

Only 2 things can you do bad to a cheese rind  one let it get so wet that it  just disintegrates , and 2 cut it off.
If it is a large area of the cheese that you cut off you need to some how now provide a new skin to protect it and vacuum bagging is the easiest.

I think we need a pic so we can give you better advice .
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on October 31, 2015, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Wattywatts on October 30, 2015, 08:54:17 PM
Doh! Ok so is what I read about the luminous yellow mould being really bad not right? Will a new rind grow, should I wait for that ir just vacuum pack now?
Thanks again for the help

Yeah, unfortunately you won't get a new rind. Just vacuum at this point. It'll turn out fine.

As for "really dangerous", about 99.9% of mold is not dangerous. If you have any concerns, or if you don't like the taste, trim the rind when you're eating. I do that with all of my cheeses because mold never tastes as good as the cheese. You can also use them in cooking.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Gregore on November 01, 2015, 05:15:47 AM
Too right Stinky

For some reason heat/ cooking cheese always mellows and improves the taste of a wild cheese .

I have had a couple of cheeses that were rather intense but cooking with them really help mellow the flavor .
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on November 02, 2015, 11:49:53 PM
Thanks for the help I have vacuumed it now, should have thought to take a picture before but hey.. Here it is packed lol. Just started a Caerphilly too and made ricotta with the whey. Hopefully these will be good also
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Gregore on November 03, 2015, 04:23:08 AM
 Just thought I would mention

If moisture starts to get pulled from the cheese  as it ripens take it out dry it off and rebag it .
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on November 03, 2015, 09:53:55 AM
Awsome thanks. Any advice for the Caerphilly? Is it the same treatment? I can't see anything about waxing it etc
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on November 03, 2015, 02:22:25 PM
For the Caerphilly? They're easy, since it's for such a short time. Just stick in a ripening box with the lid cracked, if the cheese starts getting little cracks rub them with lard and increase the humidity by just leaving the lid on loosely, if they're a whole lot of mold attacking your cheese, so it looks like a microflora playground, decrease the humidity. Every day or two, just brush the mold back. In ideal conditions IME mold generally shows up around 5-7 days, and goes strong for maybe a week or two before slowing down. But the great thing with Caerphilly is that it's fast.

You shouldn't need to bother vacuuming because it's always a good idea to wait that 21 days before sealing in any case, but in this case Caerphilly is good at 3 weeks, so you're fine there. If you're worried about any mold or anything, post a picture. Usually, it's not an emergency.

If you get any of:
Pinkish kind of slimy -too high humidity if there's a lot of it, or contamination in the process but that's unlikely at this point.
Florescent yellow stain- too high humidity, generally; it's ugly and makes that bit of rind taste bad but it's not dangerous.
Brown or black stains- too high humidity, only annoying because you can't just brush it off.
Blue mold- just brush it off. Persistant, but not terrible.
A white powdery coating- this is a good mold, geotrichum candidum. Be happy if you get this and not one of the others. There's a lot of it around, so you're probably recognize it pretty soon.
White fluffy mold with dark specks at the tips- mucor, too high humidity, brush off.

These are my local microflora, if I get others it's typically a sign that I've left it at too high of a humidity, but it might be different for you where you are. Still, most of these varieties should show up at some point.
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on November 03, 2015, 09:07:53 PM
thank you, very good info, absolutely gutted though as my cheddar was looking lovely with the white powdery mold until i hacked it up :) live and learn
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Wattywatts on November 26, 2015, 03:54:09 PM
Yay the Caerphilly turned out great. Really want to try Brie and Stilton now as I absolutely love them, but can't find a kit anywhere in uk
Title: Re: First cheese questions
Post by: Stinky on November 29, 2015, 04:16:08 PM
Congratulations!  :D +C