This is my first camembert. Today is day 6 and the fuzzy white mold starts to grow (since day 5). I made this one using mesophilic starter and PC only (that's what I think) I use premix culture from mad millie. I actually made 3 batches with 3 different recipes. The first batch I use triple creme recipe from new england cheesemaking website, the 2nd batch I use the recipe from wiki cheese, and the 3rd one I use malembert recipe.
The first batch (triple creme) only start to have white fuzzy mold on day 10 and at the same time as the 2nd batch, I put them in the same ripening container (maybe that cause the 2nd batch to have early white mold growth?)
I also think I over salted the first batch :(
The 3rd batch is 5 days old now and it is weepy and wet, I might have done something wrong here. No fuzzy whiteness yet.
The last picture is of the 3rd batch which are weepy and wet.
Ann, if I'm understanding right, you have one batch that is 10 days old, one that is 6 days, and one that is 5 days -- is that right?
In any case, your first picture is looking good. I'd move it to a cold refrigerator for a few weeks to age it out, either still in a ripening box or wrapped in the special cheese ripening paper.
For the last batch, weepy and wet may mean that it didn't drain well, for whatever reason. However, if there is any geo in the premix culture, it will cause a very slimy feel to the cheese from about day 2-3 until the PC is well established; maybe that is what you are experiencing -- hard to tell from the pictures.
Ultimately, of course, we will need a taste report when these are done!
Hi Andy, you are correct. The 2nd batch (1 week old) is thriving, the first batch is slower growth (maybe because it is triple creme or I was not making it right).
The 3rd batch stop weeping and significantly less wet today, almost dry. Lets see how they go in few more dayss.
Today my milkman will bring another 2 gallon (8 liters) raw jersey milk, I think I will make another batch with it (these earlier batches I made with PH milk). Do you think it is safe to make soft cheese with raw milk? (we are drinking it raw also most of the days).
In the US, for cheese that will be sold, the law requires that cheese made with raw milk must be aged a minimum of 60 days. For individuals making cheese for themselves (not for sale), of course, they can choose to do it however they want.
My own practice would be to do a low-temperature pasteurization of the milk if I were making a cheese that would be aged less than 60 days OR if I did not have a way to be sure about the quality of the milking conditions and the transport of the milk. Low-temperature pasteurization -- holding the milk at 140°F / 60°C will kill off any nasty bacteria that might be present while doing minimal damage to the milk.
I think I will just do that (low temp pasteurisation). 140F for how long? (Sorry, I pester you with these questions)
According to Caldwell (Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking) the temperature should be 145F for 30 minutes at that temperature.
Oops, sorry -- meant to include the "30 minutes" part. I've read both 140 and 145°; the latter should give a bit of margin without doing any further harm.
Thanks Kern and Andy for the replies. I finally made another batch of camembert, this time with some geo (my shipment of cultures and moulds just arrived.
I used 2 gallon of raw jersey milk, pasteurised as per Kern's directions.
1/4 tsp chr hansen flora danica
1/16 penicillin candidum >> I was meant to only give 1/32 tsp but I made a mistake and gave 1/16 instead
1/64 geotrichum
1/4 tsp cacl
Rennet calf and vegetable (long story...sigh)
Heated up milk to 32C, add cultures, let it ripen 90 minutes. I was going to put 1/32 tsp of pc but when I was adding the cultures on the packet it said: 1/16 tsp for every 2 gallon of milk, without checking my notes I went ahead to add that much. Of course afterwards when I checked my notes I found out I made a mistake.
Add 4 ml calf rennet, 23 minutes nothing happen. Add another 4 ml, nothing happen.
I panicked and dilute a tiny veg rennet (less than 1/8 of a tablet). After 8 minutes it started to gel up.
Do you think this will cause problem?
I use about 5ml (1 teaspoon) of single strength calf rennet per 2 gallons of milk for my Camemberts. Floc time is about 12-15 minutes for a cut time of about 60-90 minutes. A total of 8ml seems like a bit much. Your rennet may be "going south". Too much rennet can make the cheese a little bitter. I'd get new rennet and be sure to keep it in a 4C cold fridge.
I think the calf rennet solution I made with Renco calf rennet powder might have gone 'south' as you said. When I mixed it, I actually not so sure to how much rennet, water, salt and citric acid, I was just 'winging' it with calculation.
Please enlighten me on this matter.
Quote from: AnnDee on January 24, 2016, 03:07:56 AM
not so sure to how much rennet, water, salt and citric acid, I was just 'winging' it with calculation.
??? salt and citric acid?
What calculation? Dissolve the dry calf rennet in cool, sterile, non-chlorinated water just before you add it to your ripened milk.
I keep my dry calf rennet vacuum-sealed and in the freezer between cheese makes. Going on five years now and it's still very viable.
-Boofer-
I read on one of the thread that you can dilute powdered calf rennet with non chlorinated water, salt and some acid and it will keep in the fridge for some time. I am just not sure of how much composition.
I read from here:
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=11054.0 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=11054.0)
As mentioned earlier I use single strength liquid calves rennet. The thread you pointed to had some comments by Boofer and linuxboy and they are two of the "heavy hitters" on the Forum. Perhaps Boofer can review this thread and comment on the practice as I know nothing about it.
Rennet seems to vary all over the map as far as strength. The type I am using (bought from ArtisanGeek) generally works fine with just 1/2 tsp for a < 4 gallon make. With cams, I double it to 1/2 tsp for a 2 gallon make. As others have said, 8 mil seems way much -- but then again, I've never made it up from dried; obviously, how strong you make it will make a difference.
I decided to just use powdered calf rennet and dilute it each time instead of make a large batch of rennet solution ahead of time to keep in the fridge. I hope this way it becomes more reliable and accurate.
Thanks all for the much needed guidance.
Ps. It was the first time I use cacl on jersey milk and I think the yield is much higher.
Looking good AnnDee. Certainly worth your first cheese. :) Be sure to get the Cams in the cold fridge as soon as the PC covers everything (about ten days out). This will slow down the action of the PC on raising the pH and give time for the enzymes, et al in the paste to flavor the whole cheese. I usually go six weeks in the cold fridge and when I want to eat one move it to the warmer cave for a couple of days and then to room temperature a day before dining. In Malaysia you might want to lower the counter time to 6-8 hours unless your space is cooled with air conditioning.
Will keep my eyes on them, I have to fight the urge to take a look at them too often.
It is humid these days, I discard almost 1-2 teaspoon each day from the ripening box and I also wipe the ripening box everyday from the condensation. I might have to put dessicant pouches if the humidity too high.
Will post more development as I go along.
Quote from: AnnDee on January 25, 2016, 01:49:41 AM
I decided to just use powdered calf rennet and dilute it each time instead of make a large batch of rennet solution ahead of time to keep in the fridge.
Works for me. Good decision. ;)
-Boofer-
Update on the cams.
Batch 1 (pic 1) is 15 days old. I used pasteurised and homogenised milk. The texture is still firm and rind felt thin.
Batch 2 (pic 2) is 14 days old. Also P and H milk. These ones took long to drain and dry. Texture is firm but the rind felt thick. I am afraid they are going on slip skin direction. Is there any way to prevent that? Any suggestion is appreciated.
Batch 3 (pic 3) is 7 days old. I used raw jersey milk that has been pasteurised lightly at home. They have the best texture from the start and they are just covered with the white mold now.
All of these are in the cold fridge 4C now.
Ann, moving them to the cold fridge once they are well covered with PC seems to help quite a lot with slip skin. At the time of transfer, I generally find the edges to be rather "loose" feeling; I have to handle them very carefully to avoid tearing the rind off. In other words, very slip-skin-ish. But after they ripen in the cold fridge for a few weeks, it evens out beautifully. Incidentally, this is one advantage of wrapping in the cheese paper at this point -- it reduces the risk of tearing the rind when handling (to flip periodically).
Thank you Andy, they are all in the cold fridge now. 2 of mine have that 'loose' feeling. Hopefully they turn out alright.
I wrap some of them around the rind inspired by a video on vacherin mont d'Or.
Banana leaves? Should be an interesting experience -- I look forward to the taste report!
Quote from: awakephd on January 30, 2016, 04:21:49 PM
Banana leaves? Should be an interesting experience -- I look forward to the taste report!
How did the old Harry Belafonte song go? "Hide the deadly black tarantula.... Day-O, Day-O" :P
That's cool! 8)
Susan
Ann, having attempted a version of the Vacherin Mont D'Or (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13797.0.html) I can assure you that you won't get much flavor from those leaves. The spruce bark used on the Mont D'Or actually fuses with the cheese and provides a little woodsy taste at best.
They are coconut leaves, I sun dried some too and made a batch of Vacherin mont d'Or recipe, I will upload the pics later. I also wrap 1 triple cream cheese in a banana leave because my order of cheese wrapping paper has not come yet (almost a month, sigh....). Hopefully it turns out ok.
That's a bummer Al Lewis, I was hoping it would enhance it a little. Oh well, I think I will have to get spruce bark from artisangeek afterall.
I read your thread on making that cheese before too Al, so many times I almost memorise it by now. Inspiring me to make a version of it. Thank you!
After 5 long weeks, finally we crack 1 of this little white beauty opened today. This is batch no. 1 with local P&H milk without any addition of cream.
First, I moved 1 from the cold fridge to my cheese cave of 13-15 C. Then 3 hours prior to eating it was left out at room temp of 28C. I was going to leave it at room temp for 6 hours but it started to ooze out from 1 crack so we decided to cut it opened.
The smell of the cheese was good, mushroomy and earthy, no ammonia.
Texture wise it was oozy and runny with some soft solid in the middle which my 12 year old daughter likes.
Rind was not thick nor too thin.
It tastes like a camembert should taste. Smooth, silky, nutty, milky with the right amount of saltiness. I ate the rind which to me was delicious but my daughter said it has a slight bitterness to it but she managed to finish half a wheel on her own (how she stays skinny is a mystery to me).
Here's some pictures of how we devoured our camembert today.
Some more pics.
Looks great! And sounds like it tastes great!
That looks delicious! AC4U! :P
Very nice looking Cam. A well-deserved cheese for you. ;D
MMMMmmmm gooooud :o
Got to get buildin another
Have another cheese (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
I want some!
Have another cheese.
Thank you for the cheeses!
I opened another 1 from a different batch, batch 2 using P&H milk with addition of cream (malembert recipe). The outer rind was thicker and has ammonia smell...but the inside paste was smell free. How can that possible??
Anyway, anyone can advice me on how to prevent camemberts become slightly bitter? I didn't taste it on batch 2 which has ammonia smell rind (honestly the paste taste better) but my daughter tasted it on batch 1 (HP milk with no cream). Can it be the addition of cream that prevent the bitterness?
I wish I can send you some Andrew, they are good!
Final report on this cheese.
I mention earlier that I wrap some with coconut leaf and yesterday on 6 weeks mark, I cut and tasted it.
I used raw jersey milk that home pasteurised as per awakephd/Andy's suggestion with Kern's guidance on the temp and time. The recipe for this batch was the malembert recipe. I wrapped the cheese when the cheese was already covered with white mold so it didn't fuse to the rind.
The result was rather pleasing to me. The rind had earthy smell and taste, like raw button mushroom. A hint of ammonia smell when I opened the coconut leave band but after around 1 minute the smell went away.
The paste was gooey but not runny, it could hold its shape after being cut. There was a small middle bit that had not gone gooey yet but very soft. All in all, this batch with the jersey milk is the best tasting compared to the ones using PH milk.
Here are some pics to complete this final report.
Dang that tastes good!!
I mean looks good ;D
I have got to get some milk today :P
Hiya HKJ,
I am going to make stacked and milled cheddar as per your blog's recipe tomorrow! Nice and informative blog by the way. Make some more cheese and put more cheesy stories please :)
Glad to hear the leaves worked for you. Your description of the flavor sounds pretty much like the same affect the spruce bark gave to mine. Maybe a little stronger in my case. You cheese looks amazing and delicious! Can't wait to get some time to make some as I even bought a mini fridge to age them in. AC4U for you complete success!! ;D
Hi Ann, What a lovely looking Cam. Well done and Cheese from me as well. I think the leaves add to the 'spirit' of your cheese.
-- Mal