Hi, it's me again.
Recently I made tomme and I am planning to give it as a gift. And because I have not tried this cheese before, I went and bought a wedge of tomme savoie to find out how this cheese should taste.
It was a nice looking cheese with interesting rind but....with a strong (and when I say strong, it was really really strong) smell of ammonia.
My question is: is it supposed to have that strong ammonia smell?
If this is the case then I will need to make a different type of cheese for the gift.
You can see from the rind that it's very mature. I'd say a mild level of ammonia is still acceptable but this one I would eat very soon. A younger tomme is not at all like this.
Two comments:
- if you allow the Tomme to come to room temperature, the ammonia may dissipate.
- you typically don't eat the rind.
-Boofer-
My wife brought me back one of these cheeses from Switzerland and it was very good at first but trying to get through a whole wheel before it gets past its best is hard , I found that the tomme savoie was not nearly as good near the end of the wheel .
The flavor had become far more intense and no longer an easy eating cheese.
It looked a lot like yours does near the end of it life , so I would not use this slice of cheese as an example of what your tomme will be like . Also I have made many tommes over the last while and none of them taste like the tomme savoie .
Quote from: Boofer on February 11, 2016, 04:46:02 AM
- you typically don't eat the rind.
You typically do. At least they do so in France where the tomme type originates. It adds to the flavour. With a cheese that mature I might skip it too, though.
Good strong cheese, like fine wine, should be allowed to breath before eating. Once it airs out it should be fine.
Thank you everyone for the replies.
I am relief to know that my final cheese most probably won't be like the one I bought.
I did air the bought cheese, up to 3 hours. I check every 30 minutes but the smell did not dissipate. Beside it was close to the end of it's life, maybe it was somewhat contaminated as it was a wedge from a wheel and it was wrap with a cling wrap instead of vacuum packed.
Did it taste good?
The reason it smells like ammonia is probably because the rind culture contained some p. candidum. My guess is that this bought stuff was wrapped up and not let air enough while it was being imported. Either way. An easy way to remember what causes the ammonia is to think about a brie. It gets soft in the middle because the PC produces ammonia, and, as this ammonia is basic, gradually raises the pH and the molecules are more water-friendly and get soft. Roughly speaking.
So to keep your tomme from smelling strongly, air it out regularly, brush it back, don't leave it in too high of humidity for too long, and if you see white fluffy mold just knock it back more than you might another mold and don't let it take over.
It was not very easy to eat. There is a big note of bitterness to it. I think the smell made me forget to taste the cheese properly to be honest.
Anyway, here is a look of my tomme, 1 week old. There is little white patch on it, what should I do? Should I wipe it with brine amd vinegar? There isn't much to brush yet really.
The white looks lie a patch of Geo. There seems to be a pinkish tinge which could be B Linens or could be something in the light when you took the photograph. Whether you wash it with brine and vinegar will depend on what sort or rind you want. It will give you a nice clean rind and if you want to wax, oil or bag it that might be the way to go. If you want to develop a natural rind, washing would set you back. If you want to encourage the B Linens, you might want to consider washing with a weak brine.
Tomme is all about a natural rind, so why would you want to wax it? It wouldn't be a tomme anymore.
I would let the rind develop naturally. Sometimes they look really scary but the cheese inside tastes great!
Feel free to brush it anyway if you're concerned.
At the moment I will let it be, if it gets too scary looking then I will brush it. It doesn't have pinkiness to it, so no blinens, I hope.
Quote from: AnnDee on February 14, 2016, 02:51:41 AM
At the moment I will let it be, if it gets too scary looking then I will brush it. It doesn't have pinkiness to it, so no blinens, I hope.
You can also just wipe the rind down with a clean, dry cloth if it gets too fuzzy with molds. This will help to both spread the spores across the rind, as well as knock them back so that they don't get airborne and potentially make other cheeses fuzzy.
Geo and some of the other yeasts are particularly important for raising the pH of the rind, allowing other bacteria and molds to colonize and do their thing. B. linens also moves in early, but it adds a lot of beneficial flavours (in my opinion) and I wouldn't fear it. So long as your rind is well sealed (ie. absent of any cracking), most of the flavours from the rind flora will be limited to the rind itself.
Hi Sprocket,
Thanks for the tip, I am using your dry cloth method on my caerphilly, cantal and manchego/hispanico. It works really well on spreading the molds all over the cheese.
I love colourful rind!
Great! I'll post some pictures of our Tommes as well - they're just approaching 3 months or so (I usually like to take them to 5-6, and 12 for the large ones), and they're beautiful!
Would love to see some pics of your tomme, when you have a chance!
Quote from: AnnDee on May 17, 2016, 02:28:14 PM
Hi Sprocket,
Thanks for the tip, I am using your dry cloth method on my caerphilly, cantal and manchego/hispanico. It works really well on spreading the molds all over the cheese.
I love colourful rind!
I have made 2 more tommes since the first one, bigger wheels 3.5 kilos of cheese. We like this type of cheese in our house. Here is a pic of the last tomme.
That's a lovely looking rind and well worth a cheese.
Don't be afraid of BL. BL is your friend.
Alright, you don't want BL on every cheese. My understanding is that BL only flourishes at very high humidity. At lower humidities it can't compete with the other various moulds, yeasts etc.
I am becoming more and more brave towards BL nowadays, I don't have panic attack everytime I see pinkiness on my cheese anymore ;D
I think 1 of my cave now has a nice variety of microflora and most of the cheese I put in there turn out colourfull.
If I wash and clean the cave (it is due for a thorough cleaning), do you think the floras will come back?
You got some pretty impressive natural flora going on , my guess would be that they come back if you have enough cheeses to put back in . The more mass with flora that goes back in the better .
I think you might want to invest in some wood shelves even if it is just 1 or 2 to allow you wash your cave when ever needed with out setting your flora back to far .
One other thought is that if this all came naturally with out any purchased packets then it should all come back again , given enough time as some of it might be a seasonal thing out side your cave .
Quote from: Gregore on May 19, 2016, 01:31:04 PM
I think you might want to invest in some wood shelves even if it is just 1 or 2 to allow you wash your cave when ever needed with out setting your flora back to far .
I'm glad you point this out to me, because to think of it, my cave turned this way after I made few episodes of washed rind cheeses, including a vacherin type. I put all my washed rind cheeses on top of paulownia or teak wood planks or chopping boards. Can I just save the wood and stick it back in the washed and cleaned cave to get the flora going again?
Quote from: AnnDee on May 19, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
I'm glad you point this out to me, because to think of it, my cave turned this way after I made few episodes of washed rind cheeses, including a vacherin type. I put all my washed rind cheeses on top of paulownia or teak wood planks or chopping boards. Can I just save the wood and stick it back in the washed and cleaned cave to get the flora going again?
I usually take the reverse approach, where I do not thoroughly wash and sanitize the cave (save for washing the floors), but clean and sanitize the boards. The wooden boards remain with a batch of cheese until it is ready for sale, then is pulled out of the aging room, cleaned, sanitized, and left to dry, before being replaced.
After a while (and "a while" might be years) your aging room should develop a stable environment of yeasts, mold, and bacteria that will appear naturally on your cheeses without needing much introduction. (That said, if I wanted a cheese to be heavy on a particular flora (ie. Geo), I will add it during the make.)
Here're a couple photos of our most recent batches of tomme. Both were made in early/mid-March. We sell the smaller ones at about 2-3 months old, when the paste is still relatively mild, and hold the larger ones back until 5-6 months when the flavours really start to develop.
Both are made from raw goats milk.
Wow Sprocket! Those are nice cheese! How do you sell your cheese and where? Do you have a website?
Unfortunately I don't have an aging room but I hope soonest we are settled into our own house in our home country I will have a cellar.
Now I am using 2 wine fridges, I am using 1 for waxed and sealed cheese which I don't have to worry about humidity control and I am using the other for natural rind cheese which humidity ranges between 80-98%. The latter fridge is the one I am thinking of washing.