First of all, hats off to this forum and the many of you that have posted on the topic of camemberts. I am very grateful. The recipe I decided to follow was taken from Mal's "malembert" recipe and also Andy's "camembert #2 post. These on top of reading Peter Dixons recipe, Gianaclis Caldwells recipe, and watching Gavin Webbers video made me feel like I could attempt a shot at it...
Recipe:
2 gallons whole milk - Pasteurized but non-homogonized
3 cups of heavy cream - Pasteurized but non-homogonized
1/4 tsp Flora Danica
1/16 tsp PC - ABL
1/32 tsp Geo 13
1/4 tsp CaCl
1/2 tsp calf rennet in 1/4c non-chlorinated water
Started at 12:00 noon
Starting PH was 6.67
Milk and cream into the vat and stirred well to blend
Lowered into the hot water bath. Water at 120f
12:40 milk arrived at 90f (temp had stalled at 80f because the bath had gone too cool so I had to warm the water bath to bring it up to 90f)
Sprinkled on the cultures and molds and let sit to re-hydrate for 2 minutes.
12:42 stirred in cultures and molds well then let sit for 90 minutes. Vat was out of bath on counter and wrapped in towel to try and preserve temp.
At the end of 90 minutes the PH was 6.61 and temp had fallen to 86. I set it back into the bath for a few minutes and heat climbed back close to 90f. Pulled it back out on the counter.
2:22pm - added the diluted rennet and stirred for a minute or so
Flocculation at 8:25 x 6 = 49.5. I took it 50 minutes from 2:22 and cut at 3:12pm.
Cut into 1" columns and 1" horizontal to the best of my ability.
Stirred for 15 minutes bringing bottom to top slowly then rested for 15 minutes. Prepared the forms to receive the curd.
PH=6.41 after stirring
After 15 minute rest, drained the whey down to the level of the curds then ladled them into the forms. I filled the forms as much as they could take and kept filling them until they just wouldnt take anymore. I had enough curd to fill 6 x 4" forms, 4" tall and still had a little left over that I had to toss. Not enough to fill half of another form so I like the yield of curd I got.
The forms I used I had created earlier out of some cheap food storage containers that didnt have too much of a sloping side to them. I was worried about their height not being tall enough to receive enough curd as to produce a final 1.5" disc. The forms were 4" in diameter but only 2-7/8" tall. My worry turned into an idea and I went and bought more at the store, came home and cut them about 3/8" below a little shelf they have built around them as a stacking stop to give me an "extension" ring that is also threaded. This extends the height of the form another inch and fits snuggly into the first form. It also allows me to screw the lid with drain holes onto it and I was able to flip the entire form with basically 4" x 4" of curd over easily. Once the curds drained enough below the "extension", I could remove them and place the lid on the lower form. At $.60 each, I think they worked out well, but time will tell as I am a long way away from success.
3:50pm forms filled as much as they are going to take.
4:18pm draining had lowered the curds down a good 1/2" - 3/4" from the top
4:28pm put lids on "extensions" and flipped for first time
Flipped every 15 minutes until 6pm
6:00pm curd was firm enough to allow me to double flip in my hand to turn the curd upside down to round out the top side of the discs with the rounded bottom of the form.
Turned again at 6:30 before I left the house with the family for the evening.
Flipped again when I got home at 10:15pm
Covered them with cloth and left them overnight - ambient temperature was set at 68f
9:00am next morning. turned them over by hand to keep the rounded edges prominent on both sides.
PH=4.62
Disks measure about 1-5/8" tall
2:00pm took them out of the forms and weighed them. Average = 10oz each
Placed them on rack with draining mat and measured a level 1tsp of diamond crystal kosher salt and placed it on top of each disc. Placed disc in my hand at an angle so all salt fallout would land in the cupped palm of my hand and started to rub the top, then turned the disc over and poured the fallout on the bottom side and continued to rub the salt over the bottom, then placed the disc on its side and rotated it into my palm to rub the sides. Then over the sink I just rubbed the disc all over removing any areas that I thought received more that other areas and evening it out as much as possible.
2:10pm salting is complete
Placed on rack/mat and covered loosely with cloth to sit overnight. Tomorrow morning I plan on putting them into my ripening box and into my 55f cheese cave before I go to work.
This is where we sit now ... I will follow up tomorrow as I continue... -Ken
(pics to follow)
pics 1
pics 2
Ken, a great write up, and the results look spectacular. Can't wait to see how they look in a few weeks! Meanwhile, AC4U to tide you over while you wait. :)
Well I would have said no way those molds would work without lots more drainage, i.e. open ends, but you certainly made them work. Your results look amazing. How large are the cheeses? Diameter wise. They look great!! AC4U!!
Quote from: Al Lewis on March 07, 2016, 01:20:55 AM
Well I would have said no way those molds would work without lots more drainage, i.e. open ends, but you certainly made them work. Your results look amazing. How large are the cheeses? Diameter wise. They look great!! AC4U!!
Thanks for the cheese Al. They are measuring in at 3-7/8" diameter and 1-5/8" in height.
Quote from: awakephd on March 07, 2016, 12:45:48 AM
Ken, a great write up, and the results look spectacular. Can't wait to see how they look in a few weeks! Meanwhile, AC4U to tide you over while you wait. :)
Thanks Andy. I appreciate all your help and support. Thanks for the cheese also!
Question.... looking ahead ...
I have read the time to move to the colder fridge is either once the white mold is well established and covers the entire cheese and I have also read as soon as it is noticeable. Any thoughts on when to move to the cold fridge? Are there indicators I should be looking for?
Thanks, Ken
Your cheese are looking absolutely gorgeous! Meanwhile, a cheese for you for the 5-6 weeks wait.
I moved my cams to the cold fridge as soon as they are covered with the white mold, so far so good...
Quote from: ksk2175 on March 07, 2016, 03:05:59 AM
Question.... looking ahead ...
I have read the time to move to the colder fridge is either once the white mold is well established and covers the entire cheese and I have also read as soon as it is noticeable. Any thoughts on when to move to the cold fridge? Are there indicators I should be looking for?
Thanks, Ken
I am still experimenting with that variable. I have a suspicion, based on my last make when I was away for a few days and they stayed in the cave somewhat longer than usual, that perhaps waiting a bit longer before moving to the cold fridge leads to a cheese that is runnier when ripe. But it may be that my extra-runny result was just a fluke. Clearly, I will have to experiment repeatedly to establish any clear correlation. Too bad that means making lots more cams ... :)
I've gone both ways but am now of the school that one moves the cheese to the cold fridge once the Geo covers most of the wheel. If you wait too long to move then the Geo and PC will start to soften the cheese and it could become too runny, too soon. Moving to the cold fridge slows down this process so that the paste has time to undergo its changes, which will occur even at cold fridge temps.
Your cheeses really look good and I like the aspect ratio (H/D). I think you'll have success. Great "write-up" with a good balance of cheese porn. AC4U. :)
Small update ...
6am, day 3 ... cheese discs have sat out all night, covered with cheesecloth, on draining rack/mat after being salted at 2pm previous day (16hrs). Flipped once during that time-frame. This morning the surface feel had definitely changed to a much dryer feel but also a bit sticky. I placed them into my ripening boxes and into 55f cave with lids closed. RH will probably reach close to 95% and I will check on them tonight when I get home to give them a flip and some air. ...
-Ken
Sticky is good. That's the Geo doing its work. 8)
Update... day 6 since the start of the make and curds went in the forms ...
... which brings up a question ... when I see comments regarding "this many days until you should start to see fuzzy's etc" is that a timeline starting from when they went into the ripening boxes or when the first part of the make was completed?
I had three days before they were "dry" after salting and went into the ripening boxes ... I have read that it could be about a week for the PC to cover but that it is also affected by the fat content of the milk used.
As of last nights flip, there was no visible fuzz yet and even though my hygrometer was reading 97% RH and 55f inside the boxes, there is not much visible condensation on the sides or lids until, of course, I bring the boxes upstairs to flip them in 70f temperatures... then the lids condensate a bit.... There is a distinct smell difference when first opening the boxes than before ... I am assuming this is the PC/Geo starting to work its magic. I am also wondering how my individual timeline will be altered due to heavy fat content used in my make. I had used 2 gallons of 3.33% whole and 3 cups of 40% cream.
I am content to let them go as long as they need to and let them tell me when they are ready for the cold fridge. I plan on wrapping with paper due to the limited space in my family fridge and turning every two to three days.
Hey, this is fun ... something to talk about every few days .... usually it has been "hey, I just made this hard pressed cheese, put it in a bag, and well see ya all in a half a year or so ... Not complaining, but I am liking this mold ripened experience so far ... Ken
In my experience what shows up is not so much "fuzz" but rather a flat white material that starts to soften the surface detail much like a snowfall covering items left lying on the lawn. Take a look at the edges of the Cams in AnnDee's photos. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15163.0.html)
Quote from: Kern on March 10, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
In my experience what shows up is not so much "fuzz" but rather a flat white material that starts to soften the surface detail much like a snowfall covering items left lying on the lawn. Take a look at the edges of the Cams in AnnDee's photos. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15163.0.html)
I can relate to that description ... makes sense... especially with me being in Colorado and all ...
Quote from: Kern on March 10, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
In my experience what shows up is not so much "fuzz" but rather a flat white material that starts to soften the surface detail much like a snowfall covering items left lying on the lawn. Take a look at the edges of the Cams in AnnDee's photos. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15163.0.html)
Interesting as mine always have white "hairs" that seem to stick straight up, not very high, until I pet them down. Sort of feels like fur on a cat.
I wonder if some of this depends on the exact variety of PC involved; mine is usually pretty flat, especially if I flip every day. If I let it go longer, it does grow down through the plastic mesh on which it rests, and when pulled off it has an interesting checkerboard appearance with the PC sticking up in little squares. But even then, I wouldn't describe it as particularly hairy / furry ...
Day 7 ...
I'd say you are close to cold fridge time - maybe day 9???
Looking good! Looks like the geo wrinkliness is happening first.
Day 8 .... not as much white as I would have expected by now ...
wonder how I can keep from having rotation problems with my images ... they are not rotated that way originally. ??
That's a "feature" of iPhone/iPad technology. Other forum folks have experienced the same phenomeon.
Sorry, no idea if an explanation or solution exists. :(
-Boofer-
I thought me sending them from my device to my computer then rotating as needed prior to posting had fixed the issue but this time it didnt seem to work. They are orientated correctly on my computer but after my last posting ... they are slanted .... gonna try to rotate my pictures on the computer to counter what is showing above and edit the post .... Thanks...
Quote from: ksk2175 on March 14, 2016, 08:30:32 PM
I thought me sending them from my device to my computer then rotating as needed prior to posting had fixed the issue but this time it didnt seem to work. They are orientated correctly on my computer but after my last posting ... they are slanted .... gonna try to rotate my pictures on the computer to counter what is showing above and edit the post .... Thanks...
Well that didnt work ... I tried reducing the size of them to see if that helped and not so much. If you click to enlarge it seems to rotate correctly so I will just leave it at that....
If the image size is too big, it will rotate. So I use an app, instaframe, that allows me to save it to a lower pixel (I choose the lowest which is 1000x1000). I'm sure there is other ways to bring it down lower but this is the fastest way for me.
I have found that if I take a square picture with my iPhone with the phone horizontal and the shutter button on the right that the photos come out correct when sent by e-mail to my computer. I save them on the hard drive and then upload them to Forum posts and have had no orientation problems.
Ken,
Here is what is happening behind the scenes: with any modern digital picture, there are various "metadata" tags that can indicate when the picture was shot, what the camera settings were, even the GPS coordinates if the device is set up that way. One of these tags is rotation -- how the device was rotated when the picture was taken. Generally, when you work with a digital picture on a computer or hand-held device, the pixel data is never changed; the computer or device just reads the metadata tags and adjusts for the current conditions (screen size, rotation) "on the fly."
The exception to the general rule is with forum software -- most forum software does actually reduces the size (resolution) of the pixel data when it is uploaded; in the process, I believe most forum software reads the rotation tag, and as needed actually re-orients the stored pixels to the proper rotation. This allows the web software to store the picture without using up so much room (not only reduced size, but also all metadata tags stripped out); it also helps speed things up a tiny bit to send out the picture data without having to manipulate it -- it is already sized appropriately for most screens, and already rotated to the proper orientation.
This forum is an exception to the general rule for forum software! This one does not automatically reduce the size of uploaded pictures; it stores the whole file you send, however big it may be. I'm not sure if that's why this forum seems to have more trouble with the rotation issue, though I have noticed that Apple products seem to cause trouble in this respect for many forums. Since this forum doesn't do it automatically, it is a very good idea to reduce the size of the picture before uploading -- otherwise, for folks with slower connections, it can take a long time for the pictures to download. Actually, for any forum, even ones that do automatically reduce the size, I always re-size before uploading, just so it takes less time to upload.
But here's the catch: Just about any computer/device software that reduces the size of a digital picture will NOT re-orient the pixels; it just reduces the size, leaving the rotation tag in the metadata, and counts on the displaying device to take care of rotating as needed. And here's a bigger catch: even if you manually apply a rotation, trying to correct for the problem, most software still doesn't actually re-orient the pixels; it just adjusts the metadata tag! So you need software that can re-size and re-orient the pixel data physically, without regard to the metadata.
For this and other picture-manipulation purposes, I use a suite of programs called imagemagick -- this is on a Linux machine, but the same thing is available for Macs and I believe for Windows. Unfortunately, these are command-line programs, so you have to be willing to "geek it" to use them. I guess one of these days I need to write a little GUI wrapper around this program that would allow folks to deal with this issue more easily ...
All of that is very interesting :-\
Soooooo, back to cheese making.
Your brie have a nice looking fur coat, I predict, numnumnum ^-^
AC4U (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Ha! Thanks for the cheese H-K-J. I sure hope you are right.
Andy, thanks for the geek talk... I'm right there with ya. I use an old program called Easy Thumbnail to re-size my photos but youre right, it doesnt change any metadata. The pictures above have actually been re-sized down to 600 dpi and re-uploaded but still rotated.
Kern, thanks for the tip on Iphone orientation, I will try that next time.
I think my little hockey pucks are ready for the cold fridge. Not a ton of white covering but the sides and edges are starting to feel that there is a little give there.
Day 9 ...
The flat sides are matting and turning a bit tan color ...
They have developed such a strong smell that my wife thinks "stinks up the whole house" ...
Quote from: H-K-J on March 15, 2016, 03:49:07 PM
All of that is very interesting :-\
:) Always happy to entertain!
Day 11 ...
Day 13 ....
When I press on the middles, it feels similar to clay. Firm but gives. Time for cold fridge .... wrapped and into fridge at 5c.
Very smelly cheese. Hope that calms down a bit or they wont stay in that fridge for long.
Quote from: awakephd on March 15, 2016, 02:37:52 PM
<snip: discussion of why pictures come out with the wrong rotation, and/or size>
For this and other picture-manipulation purposes, I use a suite of programs called imagemagick -- this is on a Linux machine, but the same thing is available for Macs and I believe for Windows. Unfortunately, these are command-line programs, so you have to be willing to "geek it" to use them. I guess one of these days I need to write a little GUI wrapper around this program that would allow folks to deal with this issue more easily ...
Okay, so I decided to do exactly that -- or rather, not exactly that, since I wound up not using imagemagick as the underlying library; it was unnecessarily big and complex for this simple task.
Announcing RoShrink (not to be confused with RoGain!). Details here: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15452.msg118166.html#msg118166 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15452.msg118166.html#msg118166)
Update - week 6 this weekend ... these discs have not gotten much softer than they felt on March 19th ... I have had them wrapped and in a 3c fridge but they havent developed much and still feel "clay like" when I press into the middle ... the sides and corners are definitely softer but wondering if the fridge has been too cold and where I should go from here.
When you are ready to eat one take it out of the cold fridge and put it in the cheese cave for a couple of days. It will get noticeably softer. Then take it out of the cave for a half dozen hours before you plan to eat it and it will develop lots of flavor as it comes to room temperature and get much softer still. Enjoy! ;D
You were correct Kern, I took a couple out of the fridge and into to the cave on Friday and even today they are very noticeably softer. Tomorrow I will put them out to get to room temp any cut into one to try. Because of the stinky b.linens takeover, I don't know how they will turn out but I'm looking forward to it. I will post the results.
Many people heat these in the oven slightly prior to eating them. I've tried it both ways. The warm paste is delicious and heating seems to dissipate any lingering ammonia. Pretty much the same thing you do with the Vacherin Mont D'Or but without the white wine added and the stirring. Those look beautiful BTW. I quit putting the b linens in mine after the first make when it took over mine. Tastes great without it. ;D They certainly deserve a cheese of their own so here's one from me!
Al, that looks delicious .. soo many options with this cheese. I will need to try that. Unfortunately I did not plan on the b.linens ... it is thought that I picked up some while leaving them out on my counter overnight at room temps during the salting phase just covered with some cheese cloth in lieu of in a ripening box. The PC never really developed as much as the Geo did. I need to check my measurements and next time be more concerned with keeping them concealed. I dont know where else they would have picked up the b.linens but it sure made them smelly while they were aging. My wife was very tolerant.
Week 6 ... I have had them in the cold fridge for the past month. Sometime the fridge got down to 2c and 3c and they weren't softening up very much. I decided to move a couple of them to my cave at 55f for a couple days and today took them out to warm up to room temps and cut into .... here are the results....
These cheese have been stinking because of the unwanted b.linens infection I picked up but I aged them out anyway figuring it may not turn out to be camembert but would still be a delicious edible mold ripened cheese. When I unwrapped them the rind had a strong ammonia smell the closer my nose got to it. They had softened considerably since moving to the cave and even moreso out on the counter. I cut into one and the knife fell through it easily. Below are the pics.
The flavor is earthy, nutty, with just a twinge of sour on the back end...a taste similar to a hint of blue. I can taste the salt but wouldn't describe it as necessarily salty. There was a semi-solid core still in the middle with the perimeter very soft and gooey but not runny. It had the consistency of very soft butter. I was able to cut some small wedge pieces off the half wheel and spread it on some bread and some apple as if it were butter.
I am trying to decide what to do with the other 5 wheels I have and cant wait to make another batch and try to improve on the PC development and keep the b.linens at bay.
For a first attempt, I am pleased because I learned a lot and ended up with a very edible cheese. Looking forward to the next batch...
Way to go ;D
AC4U (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif) a very nice and delish looking Cam
What a great looking cheese.
Have a cheese from me.
And another C4U!
Thanks for the cheeses :)