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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Chetty on March 09, 2016, 05:19:13 AM

Title: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 09, 2016, 05:19:13 AM
I have been to busy working on my cheese factory to post to much.  But I recently took a sample from three of my tomme cheeses made from the same batch and they each tasted different. Two were brined one dry salted. All the rest was the same any idea why they would taste differently.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 09, 2016, 05:25:04 AM
They are lacking in the moldy rind department but there has been a little white mold that has taken over for the most part
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on March 09, 2016, 06:26:01 AM
The white bloom on them looks like Geotrichum, often one of the first arrivals on a natural rind.
How old are they?
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 09, 2016, 09:10:20 PM
They are almost two months old but I just finished my cave so they have lived in a box most of there life.  On another note I have one more inspection before I will be licensed cheese maker.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 11, 2016, 03:59:45 AM
I cut the cheese today (only on a cheese forum is it ok to say that).  It tasted great but I think I will age the other two a little longer.  But it melted great on a grilled cheese.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on March 11, 2016, 05:27:00 AM
Quote from: Chetty on March 09, 2016, 09:10:20 PM
On another note I have one more inspection before I will be licensed cheese maker.

When you get a chance tell us more about your commercial operation - capacity, what cheeses, what milks, etc.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 11, 2016, 06:15:14 AM
I have been working on my operation full time for a whole year.  My make room and packaging room sit next to the milk barn on the dairy.  We milk Holstein cows that usually have a good butter fat count.  The cheeses as of now I am going to make are all raw milk cheeses aged for the 60 day minimum.  Gouda, tomme are the cheeses I like to make the most but on occasion I will make a cheddar type and one that resembles a creamier milder version of provolone.  I have a 150 gallon vat but 40 to 50 gallon is what I usually make. 

I put a couple of pictures of my make room and of the outside of my building while it was in construction.  It will be good to be done building and able to spend more time making cheese I'm almost there.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on March 11, 2016, 11:24:23 PM
Thanks for the photos.  Will you be making cheese daily or do you plan to store the milk for a day or so and then make cheese?  I've evaluated a small cheese facility here in Washington State and from a regulatory standpoint it seems less of a hassle  to bring the milk in and make the cheese rather than put it in larger fixed tanks for making later.  Milk storage seems to make regulators nervous.  Of course, to make the cheese on a "current" basis you need to have the creamery and milking parlor near to each other and this seems also to make regulators nervous, also.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 12, 2016, 03:21:24 AM
I'm planning on making it twice a week.  We sell the majority of the milk because we have 158 cows.  Because my make room is so close to the barn yard I had to have a vestibule to make a sort of air lock from the outside world.  My aging cave is on the other side of the farm burried in a hill for natural cooling.  It is cheaper then electric cooling but more labor to haul the cheese.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on March 12, 2016, 08:12:22 PM
Great.  Let us know where in Utah you will be selling your cheese.  I have relatives there and pass through the state from time to time.

Kern
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on March 13, 2016, 02:13:39 AM
We are located in box elder county but will be selling at farmers markets in Ogden I hope I am still setting that up.  I'm still in the inspection stage and I would have to have product ready for sale in May.  The 60 day timeline don't Match and they don't like people to start at the market late. 
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on June 23, 2016, 01:18:06 AM
New batch of time but I washed this batch to keep the blue mold down.  The only problem I've had with this batch is slumping and flies.  I am having trouble controlling both of them. 
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on June 23, 2016, 04:28:46 AM
Thanks for the update on your operation.  Slumping can be taken care of by flipping the cheeses every few days.  This doesn't stop it but does put the bulge in the middle.  Eventually, the cheese dries enough so that the slumping stops.  Still, I'd flip them once every few weeks even at this point.  It is a good time to inspect the cheeses as well.

I'm not sure what you do about the flies.  Obviously, you need screens on all openings.  Sailor may have some ideas on controlling flies as I am sure there are some regulations about this.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on June 23, 2016, 09:03:31 PM
Thanks for the help, I have screens on everything but I think the must have been coming in when I open the door.  I just put up a plastic walk through curtain to see if it helps.  I have been turning them every day.  But what makes them do this not enough acid before renneting? To much rennet?  Or is washed curd cheese just supposed to do this. 
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on June 23, 2016, 11:48:14 PM
Curds behave more like a high viscosity liquid than they do as a solid.  If they didn't then we wouldn't be able to press them together and have the curds knit into a seamless cheese wheel.  The moisture content doesn't change too much during pressing for the drier cheeses like Tommes.  Gravity acting on the wheel causes it to slump.  Turning once or more per day doesn't stop the slumping, it merely moves the bulge from one end (elephant foot) to the middle.  At some point in the aging process the rind gets rigid enough through drying that the dimensions of the cheese stabilize and turning is not required as frequently.  Still, it is a good idea to turn the cheeses a couple of times per month as this helps keep the moisture content uniform throughout the cheese.

This is only related to the factors you listed in that they can affect the moisture content.  I've attached a photo of a "hot washed curd" cheese I made where the bulge is clearly seen.  If you start looking a photos of cheeses aging in caves you'll see that bulging is quite common.  It ends up in the center due to periodic turning of the cheese.

Incidentally, I like the shape of the cheeses you've made.   :)
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on June 24, 2016, 04:10:18 AM
Well I guess if it is somewhat normal I will put my worries to rest.   I just get a little nervous being now this is a business instead of a hobby.  I hope I can get everything just right so people will take my cheese serious.  Most people still think I'm just some punk kid ( I'm only twenty)  that don't know anything, and it is hard to run a business with people in that mind set.  I want my cheese to wow them when they eat it.  When it was a hobby I was happy if it was edible. 
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Gregore on June 24, 2016, 05:51:33 AM
If it is that common  black house  type fly then they are attracted to light when in the dark and to dark when in the light so paint the curtains white so you have less of them flying in .

My good friend spent part of his career studying them and the chemicals to kill them . I will try to remember to ask him what you can do to kill them when they are already in .
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Fritz on June 24, 2016, 06:29:45 AM
Hey Chetty, I'm so impressed with what you have done (commercially) so far, at age of only 20! Blow me away.... Have no fear, people will take you seriously and you will wow them with gusto.
If I may give some elderly advice... Learn your craft well... Well enough to sell your cheese verbally, and of course with consistent great taste. Understand and learn good marketing and business savvy for growth of your investment and for success. Your hard work will not go unrewarded.
Its good to learn the cheeses of the world, but your success will come from the cheeses YOU create and have YOUR signature, YOUR heart and soul in every bite. We should be able to taste the love you put into your foods as an ingredient... Sounds corny ... But I've seen it before, and heard that phrase from guests I've had the pleasure serving my offerings to. As will you.
Your cheeses don't have to look perfect... It's not factory food... It's artisan gourmet cheese from cows that you can point to, and people will pay for your uniqueness and style. All the best success and luck!
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Gregore on June 24, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
I suggest read the book  " purple cow "  by Seth godin.  it will give ideas on how to stand out from the crowd

There are also a whole slew of books on tape at the library in the business section that will help inform and inspire you . They can easily listen as you make cheese or do other such cheese chores.

Good luck  :)
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: jwalker on June 25, 2016, 12:41:53 PM
Only twenty and already giving serious cheese making a go , that's great !

I'm giving you a cheese just for that !

You're cheeses look fine , and considering your age , you have lot's of time to learn and overcome any problems you may encounter.

Keep up the great work !
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Chetty on June 26, 2016, 01:23:54 AM
Thanks for the cheese.  I visited a small cheese maker just across the mountains from me today.  They were great to talk too.  They thought that the slumping problem that I'm having could be how long I brine my cheese for I'm going to brine longer and see if it helps.  I also was offered a steam kettle from them for scrap price. It would be great for cheeses that have to cook to the higher temps if I ever went that direction.  http://rockhillcheese.com (http://rockhillcheese.com)  This is there website it is only a taste of the real thing. 
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Fritz on June 26, 2016, 01:43:21 AM
Good looking web site and great selection from 8 cows. Inspiration comes from all you see and taste (and who you meet of course :)
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Frodage3 on August 07, 2016, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: Kern on June 23, 2016, 11:48:14 PM
Gravity acting on the wheel causes it to slump.
All this time I thought it was a special barrel-shaped mould!  :-[
I gave you a cheese for the welcome info.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Kern on August 07, 2016, 08:58:26 PM
Thanks for the cheese.  :D  Speaking of which, most pressed cheeses initially act more like a high viscosity liquid than the solid we think they are.  As such they are able to slowly flow under the stress of their own weight.  This actually is a desirable quality as it allows us to knit the curds together under a light pressing weight in the mold, which obviously contains them from distorting during this part of the process.  The weight of the new cheese is well supported in a saturated brine bath that also firms up the rind.  The brine bath also raises the cheese viscosity through cooling.  At some point after the brining process the viscosity of the new cheese gets high enough that it will not distort due to its own weight.  Good practice calls for turning the new cheese daily until it is obvious that this point has been reached.  After this the cheese can be turned far less often.  Periodic turning also helps distribute moisture evenly throughout the cheese.
Title: Re: Tomme cheese one batch three flavors
Post by: Dorchestercheese on May 30, 2018, 11:13:51 AM
Hi Any idea what quanitity you will need to produce to clear a livable profit?