Most forum topics talk about ammonia smells with Camembert but I am experiencing some overwhelming, stink up the entire room, somebody open a window type smells from my ripening cams. It has been described by others in my house as smelly feet, something dead, incredibly bad gas ....
Cams are about 13 days old.
I've noticed the cams never got that fluffy white mold very much but more something similar to felt. The sides are wrinkled up quite a bit and there seems to be a tan colored matting going on the tops and bottoms. Could this be b.linens and could this be the source of the smells? I am getting ready to wrap and place in the cold fridge today but don't want to smell up our family fridge.
Thoughts?
Hi ksk2175, Sounds like B linens but pictures would help.
John
found the pictures here.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15282.0/topicseen.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15282.0/topicseen.html)
I'd go with the B. linens theory as the source of the odor. A Cam at 10 days should be pure white with no traces of pink, tan, brown or any other color. Other than the odor your cheeses will probably be fine. They won't exactly be Cams anymore and may end up with a more Reblochon taste.
I've re-read your posts a couple of times and saw some things I paid little attention to while reading them as you published them. My overall impression is that you fussed over these too much and that this may have led to the B. linens infection. I noted that your wheels sat out on the counter a day or two for drying after salting. I also noted that you took them out of the cave and upstairs (@70F) to flip. Finally, I think they went into the cold fridge several days late.
In my experience B. linens is "everywhere" and only needs the right conditions to take hold. PC and Geo seem to like about 95% humidity. B. Linens seems to prefer 85-90%. I think, therefore, that making sure your Cams don't see anything less than about 90-92% RH is important. I've not had a problem with B. linens on Cams although I am certain that it exists naturally in my environment. But, I've always made Cams somewhat differently than you did on this, your first, try. Here's how I do it:
As soon as the Cams hit the goal pH (4.6-4.7) I salt them on the top and sides. I weigh each Cam and put 2% of the weight of salt into a shaker. I put the Cam in a flat dish and sprinkle the salt on the top and bottom and then roll the sides in the salt in the dish until all the salt is used. I then rub the wheels slightly and place them back in the mold and put the molded Cams in a ripening box in the cave and keeping the humidity around 95%. I flip them in box in the cave for the next day or so while they are draining and the wheel is firming. About the second day I slide them out of the mold onto a rack in a second drying box. All this is done very quickly in the cave so that there is minimal humidity and temperature change. Over the next several days I watch for the PC to cover the sides (first) and top/bottoms (second). I am looking for about 90-95% coverage - not a thick wrinkled skin. From salting to this point takes about 8-9 days.
I then pull the ripening box from the cheese cave and put it into the cold fridge. Several days later I wrap the wheels with cheese paper. (If you wrap 55F wheels with paper and then put the cheese in a 38F fridge you risk getting condensation on the inside of the paper.) They stay in the cold fridge for about 6-8 weeks with flipping a couple of times a week.
It looks like you have a lot of Geo. activity going on. When making bloomy rind cheeses myself with Geo. as the main surface ripener I have noticed that they can get quite a stinky/smelly aroma also that seems to come from the Geo. activity. Nothing wrong except the smell most likely. I once saw an interview of a Frenchman who described Camembert as "smelling like the feet of God." So your experience is probably quite normal. :D
Susan
Quote from: Kern on March 19, 2016, 07:20:34 PM
I'd go with the B. linens theory as the source of the odor. A Cam at 10 days should be pure white with no traces of pink, tan, brown or any other color. Other than the odor your cheeses will probably be fine. They won't exactly be Cams anymore and may end up with a more Reblochon taste.
I've re-read your posts a couple of times and saw some things I paid little attention to while reading them as you published them. My overall impression is that you fussed over these too much and that this may have led to the B. linens infection. I noted that your wheels sat out on the counter a day or two for drying after salting. I also noted that you took them out of the cave and upstairs (@70F) to flip. Finally, I think they went into the cold fridge several days late.
In my experience B. linens is "everywhere" and only needs the right conditions to take hold. PC and Geo seem to like about 95% humidity. B. Linens seems to prefer 85-90%. I think, therefore, that making sure your Cams don't see anything less than about 90-92% RH is important. I've not had a problem with B. linens on Cams although I am certain that it exists naturally in my environment. But, I've always made Cams somewhat differently than you did on this, your first, try. Here's how I do it:
As soon as the Cams hit the goal pH (4.6-4.7) I salt them on the top and sides. I weigh each Cam and put 2% of the weight of salt into a shaker. I put the Cam in a flat dish and sprinkle the salt on the top and bottom and then roll the sides in the salt in the dish until all the salt is used. I then rub the wheels slightly and place them back in the mold and put the molded Cams in a ripening box in the cave and keeping the humidity around 95%. I flip them in box in the cave for the next day or so while they are draining and the wheel is firming. About the second day I slide them out of the mold onto a rack in a second drying box. All this is done very quickly in the cave so that there is minimal humidity and temperature change. Over the next several days I watch for the PC to cover the sides (first) and top/bottoms (second). I am looking for about 90-95% coverage - not a thick wrinkled skin. From salting to this point takes about 8-9 days.
I then pull the ripening box from the cheese cave and put it into the cold fridge. Several days later I wrap the wheels with cheese paper. (If you wrap 55F wheels with paper and then put the cheese in a 38F fridge you risk getting condensation on the inside of the paper.) They stay in the cold fridge for about 6-8 weeks with flipping a couple of times a week.
Thanks Kern. I dont think Ive ever tried a Reblochon so that will be interesting. Well see how these little stinky cheese develop. The smell isnt that overwhelming in the family fridge so far. Time for another batch and this time I will take your advice and really concentrate on controlling the immediate environment around the cheese and limit the amount of exposure. I have those close-able forms so it should help me in those efforts if I just place the discs in those closed molds and put in a ripening box in the cave until they firm up, then not mess with them and only flip in the cave.
Quote from: SOSEATTLE on March 20, 2016, 12:42:59 AM
It looks like you have a lot of Geo. activity going on. When making bloomy rind cheeses myself with Geo. as the main surface ripener I have noticed that they can get quite a stinky/smelly aroma also that seems to come from the Geo. activity. Nothing wrong except the smell most likely. I once saw an interview of a Frenchman who described Camembert as "smelling like the feet of God." So your experience is probably quite normal. :D
Thanks Susan. In my research on what could possibly be the problem, I read similar accounts of real camembert from France being smelly but it usually mentioned it being made from raw milk. Yeah, my Cams are Geo heavy for some reason, I will have to check my measurements to see if I went a little overboard in comparison to the PC. ??
One step at a time ... I was really satisfied with the actual make; really proud of it, and even though I thought I was very careful with cleanliness, sterilization, and contamination, I will have to consider the airborne element next time as well.
Susan