A question about cheddaring technique - but first two bits of context:
Context, part 1: I have watched videos where cheese is made in a commercial or larger-scale operation, in which the cheese is cultured, coagulated, cut, and stirred in a large rectangular vat. When it is time to drain, a stop-XXXX is opened to allow the whey to drain from the bottom (some screening is used to prevent the curds from clogging the drain). As the curd is drained, it is scooped/pushed to the sides to begin cheddaring. As far as I can tell, throughout the cheddaring process that follows, the drain is left open and the whey continues to drain out of the vat as it seeps out during the cheddaring. I'm not sure about the salting phase, as I don't recall ever seeing a video that includes this.
Context, part 2: When I am making home-sized cheddars - generally 4 gallons of milk in a make - I have always cheddared in the pot. Sometimes I have initially drained the curds via cloth-lined colander, and then returned them to the pot; sometimes I have just dipped out as much whey as possible. Either way, after 15 minutes or so I have cut into slabs and stacked, then drained off any whey that has gathered. Every 15 minutes I have continued to rotate and stack the slabs, gradually increasing the number stacked on top of each other, draining off the accumulated whey each time, until the target pH is reached (5.3-5.4). Then I have milled by breaking into pieces, and added the salt in 2 or 3 stages, with 10 minutes between each stage. Of course, the salt draws off more whey, but I have not drained at this point - not until it goes into the cloth-lined press, at which point this briny whey is the first to drain out.
Unfortunately, I seem to have a hard time keeping the curds from acidifying too quickly; I tend to reach the target pH much sooner than the recipes suggest. For example, my total time of cheddaring may only be an hour at most, rather than the two hours typically called for. This despite trying a variety of techniques, e.g., adding much less culture initially, cheddaring at a lower temperature, trying both lower and higher temperatures for culturing and cooking, etc.
So, finally, here is my question: My current method results in the slabs sitting in some whey by the end of each cheddaring period. But if I'm understanding correctly, the larger-batch method is constantly draining the whey, so the slabs are not sitting in whey at any time. Would it therefore make more sense to do my cheddaring in the cloth-lined colander? Would that perhaps slow down the acidifying curve (by draining off the lactose-bearing whey more quickly)? If I cheddar this way, what about the salting phase - it would seem to make most sense to go ahead and mill the curds and begin salting while still in the colander ... even though this means losing some briny whey as it is drawn out. (Might have to adjust the amount of salt added.)
Of course, in spite of the high regard in which I hold the participants of this forum, I am not simply going to wait for an answer. :) Even as I write this, I am trying this exact approach with a Lancashire - not a true cheddar, of course, but I've had the same issues with the cheddaring phase of this cheese. This time I used less culture than I typically have, but I have also done the cheddaring in the colander, and it does seem to be acidifying at a much more appropriate rate. I'll be even more curious to try this on a true cheddar, to see how that goes - but I can sample the results of a Lancashire much sooner than a true cheddar, so I decided to start there.
Has anybody else done their cheddaring this way? Or maybe some other way other than the in-the-pot method I described above?
I'm sure I'm not doing anything special... made about 12 4-5 pounders so far...comes out quite well, I just keep draining the 4-5 gal vat with every flip, every 15 min. I don't cut it more than once to stack the 2 pieces. Once pH is reached, mill into french fries size, return to warn pot, salt, rough up curds, tossing with hands, wait 10 min, salt again with other half toss toss toss.. transfer still warm milled curds to damp cloth lined mold. Press exponentially from 10 lbs.
It's a Canadian thing :)
Fritz, sounds like we have been doing much the same thing - but you didn't mention whether you have any trouble with reaching target pH too quickly.
I should have added that I have no objections whatsoever to the results I have been getting from the method I am using - the cheddars have been fantastic. But I often have trouble getting it salted before it gets too low in pH, and the result is more crumbly than I would like.
The way I do my chedder works quite well for me. I transfer the curds to a cloth-lined colander leaving the warm whey in a full size 8" deep restaurant pan. I tie off the cloth and place it in a 3" deep perferated pan that fits into the pan of whey. I also do the cheddering in this pan and the whey drips through and the curds are kept warm by the whey below. There is also a pan cover to keep the heat in. I break up the curds and salt in a large pan, but get very little whey left over. I usually make a four pound cheese every 6 weeks and have had very consistant results.
If you use a round pot it seems like a round colander that fits inside and is kept above the whey would work equally as well.
Quote from: awakephd on October 01, 2016, 08:46:09 PM
Unfortunately, I seem to have a hard time keeping the curds from acidifying too quickly; I tend to reach the target pH much sooner than the recipes suggest. For example, my total time of cheddaring may only be an hour at most, rather than the two hours typically called for. This despite trying a variety of techniques, e.g., adding much less culture initially, cheddaring at a lower temperature, trying both lower and higher temperatures for culturing and cooking, etc.
So, finally, here is my question: My current method results in the slabs sitting in some whey by the end of each cheddaring period. But if I'm understanding correctly, the larger-batch method is constantly draining the whey, so the slabs are not sitting in whey at any time. Would it therefore make more sense to do my cheddaring in the cloth-lined colander? Would that perhaps slow down the acidifying curve (by draining off the lactose-bearing whey more quickly)? If I cheddar this way, what about the salting phase - it would seem to make most sense to go ahead and mill the curds and begin salting while still in the colander ... even though this means losing some briny whey as it is drawn out. (Might have to adjust the amount of salt added.)
I am not simply going to wait for an answer. :P
Has anybody else done their cheddaring this way? Or maybe some other way other than the in-the-pot method I described above?
>:D but some suggestions you shall have! ;)
I had the same problem with my first and only 6-gallon cheddar batch. I used 3/4 tsp of MA-4001 and was fully acidified while still in the cheddaring process. If my cobwebby memory serves correctly, Boofer suggested I cut the dosage back to 1/2 tsp per 6-gallon batch. The effect of this, of course, is to have fewer of the LAB* chewing up lactose in the early part of the process. Thus, giving you a chance to have the cheddaring process done and the curds french-fried when the pH hits about 5.3 right at the salting process.
I also think that you might put a little time on the clock if the whey was drained somewhat quicker. Some time ago I bought one of these (http://www.webstaurantstore.com/full-size-perforated-steam-table-hotel-pan-4-deep-anti-jam/4070043.html) to aid in this process. You might also want to consider getting the 2.5-inch deep version as this will allow for more whey retention in the "catch" vat (6-inch deep full size steam table pan - available from the same merchant).
Finally, you want to watch your temperatures closely as these greatly affect the reproductive rate of LAB*. Caldwell calls for a ripening period of 90F for 30 minutes. A couple more degrees higher and reproduction quite a bit faster as the fastest rate occurs about 95F for meso LAB*. Drop the temps to 88-89F and you'll slow things down.
* LAB = Lactic Acid Bacteria
Suggestions absolutely wanted and appreciated! And your suggestions reinforce some of what I have been pondering. In particular, I think I'll shoot for a lower ripening temperature next time - I think I've tended to wind up on the high side of the range.
But I discovered an interesting / troubling matter when making the Lancashire this weekend -- I used the same brand of milk that I've been using for some time, which has generally given me as good results as I have ever been able to get from store-bought P&H milk, and has the further advantage of being, oddly enough, the cheapest milk in the store. I was skeptical about trying this brand, but having seen someone else here on the forum talk about using the cheapest store brand with good results, I decided to give it a go ... and have been pleasantly surprised.
But yesterday I was not-so-pleasantly surprised when I measured the pH as it was coming up to temperature, before I added anything to it - pH was only 6.57. I don't know if that was a fluke of this particular batch, or if that has been typical of every batch of this milk that I have used, since I must confess that I hadn't bothered to check initial pH in quite a long time. I'm not sure what this pH means as far as the composition and history of the milk; it was as fresh as it could be, based on the sell-by date. In the past this brand seems to stay good in the fridge just as long as any other brand (i.e., when using it for drinking / cereal / etc.). And as I said, as far as curd strength, it has performed at least as well as the much more expensive brand that I used to use. Nonetheless, this is quite a bit lower pH than I was expecting.
Of course, the ultimate answer would be to find a source of fresh good quality raw milk. I connected with someone recently who has some cows, currently dry due to dealing with some pregnancy complications, but they are planning to return to milking after their baby is born ... so maybe I will eventually have access to a supply, but I'm guessing it will be quite a while yet. :(
Ya, sorry Andy, I guess I did miss the point, didn't I ....lol..
My raw milk starts off mostly at 6.66 pH, use the 4001/2 culture .. using the squeeze test results on the cooked curds, based on curd texture and stickiness...I may be pulling my curds out earlier than the recipe times calls for by 5 minutes or so, ergo more time to drain and cheddar ... that's when my pH meter comes in and look for 5.1 -5.2 before pulling out French frying the curd mass then salting.... constantly draining and curds stay in the pot until molding...except to mill the curds.
Ah, that's interesting - I've always tried to shoot for 5.3-5.4, but you are going for a lower pH. That is closer to (but still a bit higher than) I have gotten the last two or three cheddar makes - I have tried to get them milled before they get below 5.3, but as I recall, the last one blew past 5.3 and it didn't seem like it had had nearly enough time in the cheddaring phase, so I let it go longer ... I think it was < 5.1 when milled it, though I'll have to go back and check my notes to be sure.