Hello, I'm a total newbie,
I just had a quick question about aging my 2nd batch of Brie. I read somewhere that I can age them quick enough to be eaten in 3 to 4 weeks if I keep them at 54F/12C or I can age them slower in my cold fridge for up to 8 weeks.
Do you find this to be true and if so, do you find that there's a marked difference in flavor and texture?
Thanks! AeonSam
I've always aged mine in the cave at 54°F 85% RH. Mal, OzzieCheese, does his for the 6 weeks in the fridge. They both seem to come out great.
I prefer the slower aging in the cold fridge - I *think* this helps to avoid slip-skin, and lets more flavor develop ... but to be honest, I've never tried aging it any other way! Since Al gets great results aging it faster, I should try it to see how I like that. Maybe the next round, I'll put one in the cold fridge and one in the "cave" and compare ...
Thanks Al Lewis - It's hard enough for me to wait 4 weeks so that's good news!
Awakephd - Good luck. Lemme know how it goes. I'm going to age these two in the warmer fridge.
Will post pics
Greetings Sam,Are these dedicated fridges, for your cheese? I may get brave enough to try Brie, I may. Hope you'll update when you open these!
Greetings to you Valley Ranch,
Yes, I have one dual zone wine fridge and what I mean by my "cold fridge" is simply a spot in my regular kitchen fridge. I will definitely post pics. I found my 1st Brie to be really rewarding and nothing to be as afraid of as I first thought.
Hope you try it. Will definitely post pics!
Valley, you should definitely give brie or camembert a try. I confess I never cared much for this type of cheese when I had it before ... but I cannot get enough of the one I make myself. (That probably indicates that what I've had before is el cheapo variety rather than "the real thing.")
I like Mal's "malembert" recipe and procedure, including (as I said above) doing most of the aging at the lower temperature of the kitchen refrigerator. One difference between my approach and Mal's though, is that Mal uses ripening boxes throughout the aging, while I use ripening boxes only in the "cheese cave" while it is developing the PC. Then I wrap in cheese ripening paper and transfer to the kitchen fridge.
Alright, so... my Brie has been aging for 7 days now and the PC is growing way faster than my last batch. I hit a ph of 4.7 on these as opposed to 5.0 so I'm assuming that, that is what is making it grow quicker.
One wheel seems to be growing quicker than the other though as far as I know - the conditions are the same. I was told to wrap them after 14 days but my questions is: should I wrap them if I have full PC growth if it comes before the 14 days?
It's hard to tell by the pics, but these are 2 pound wheels.
I'd say they're getting close to being a wrap being ready to wrap. You could wrap them now, or let them go another day or two, but I personally wouldn't want to wait too much longer than that.
Alright, thanks for letting me know.
Sam
Nice looking brie to be, Sam!
A cheese for your effort.
Thanks AnnDee!
Sam
They look great! :)
Thanks Danbo!
So, these are looking pretty but an ammonia smell is starting. From what I understand, these go through a phase where the cheese becomes alkaline and penicillin feeds on the lactic acid. Ammonia is alkaline I think. So, my question is, do I let it run it's course for awhile or should I slow down the process and put it in colder fridge for awhile? I have them on 50F because I have other wheels beginning to age in a zone of 54F and there's no more room.
I'm at the 2 week mark. I'm not much of a cheese photographer.
Sam
Hello,
The edges of these wheels are becoming very dry. They are in wrapping paper and I'm not used to this happening but these are bigger wheels than I'm used to. Do I need to start a new thread?
Sam
Hi Sam,
No, no need to start another thread - we routinely chase rabbits across threads, but your question isn't even a rabbit; it is still talking about the original topic! :)
I don't have experience with the edges getting dry, but then, I've never made bries or such in that size. (I sometimes call what I make as a "camembrie" because it is about 5.5" in diameter - larger than a typical cam, but smaller than a brie.)
My best guess would be to put them in a ripening container to help keep the moisture up. That shouldn't be necessary if the cheese wrap is doing its job, but ... any chance you used the paper wrong side out? I'm not entirely sure, but I think it is intended to be used only in one direction.
Hopefully my post will bump this up, and someone who actually knows about bries will answer (rather than me just, er, shooting the bries, as it were :)).
Thanks Andy,
I was thinking that direction too. I just wanted to see what others would say.
I've placed these bigger wheels back into ripening boxes but it seems like I'm having a lot more trouble controlling these thicker, larger wheels. Does anyone have experience with large Brie affinage?
Sam
I have no experience with pizza sized bries , but I wonder if the papers are a little small for the size of cheese . Are you getting a good overlap of all the corners of the paper?
If not there could be too much air getting at them , maybe try double wrapping so the seams are opposite sides .
Not sure what else could be causing dry edges .
Gregore,
Thanks for the response. I'm using really large micro crystalline papers for these. I had spoken to Yoav last week and he says he doesn't use them until the very end of aging.
It's very dry in my house so maybe it has a profound effect when I open them to examine the aging process?
The 1st 2 wheels were made with Flora Danica and they have a strong broccoli smell with dry edges and retarded pc. The 3rd wheel has a strong ammonia smell but great pc growth.
I did dry the FD wheels for a much shorter period of time. Only two hours.
Sam
Here's a better pic of the drying edges of the Brie. I've never had this issue with smaller versions.
I'm thinking that these might have to stay in ripening boxes throughout their lifetime. Any tips?
Sam
Very bizarre , if it was me I would keep them wrapped in the papers as well as the boxes .
My guess and it really is a guess is that once it started down the road of a dry edge there was no bringing it back and all you can do is slow it down .
The good thing is they must be close to being done and you have so much cheese per wheel that the small edge damage percentage wise is minimal .
A little drier than most get but not unusual for that area to dry out. May be due to the size. Even the small ones dry out there first. Although I understand that aging these in a colder environment produces a "better" result, I think the original product of days of old were probably closer to what you have. Not much refrigeration around back then. Doesn't the term "artisanal" demand we reproduce the originals rather than replicate the modern massed produced effort? I guess it's a choice we have to make. Nothing wrong with either. ;)
Thanks Gregore, wrapping them and keeping them in a ripening box may be my next move. There is plenty of cheese for sure. One of these wheels is a little sticky to the touch. Never had that happen either.
I've been looking at Perfect-Cheese's cave humidifier. I'm wondering of wheels of this size need a lot more attention. Do you know if gravity plays a part in the drying process? Silly question, but can these lose more moisture because of their weight?
Thanks also Al, you're right. I definitely don't want a typical mass produced type. I just don't have enough of a handle on Brie yet so I'm not clear on what's going on. These smell way different that stuff you get at the store :D
Also, is that Cam 2" thick?
These cheeses should be ready Soon ??.. they were made on oct 10th
I think the stickiness might be from them getting too much moist air . I think your better off with a little cracking than killing off the PC with too much humidity .
Are they now in the fridge or the cave ? Fridges are theoretically dryer than a cave , you are well past slip skin danger zone so you might want to keep them in the cave .
Quote from: AeonSam on November 21, 2016, 01:11:36 PM
Also, is that Cam 2" thick?
Yes it is. I make all of mine that size as the make I use creates enough curd to fill three of my molds. If I used four they would be too thin so I go for three. Also, I noticed that your wheels seem to have a bit of elephants foot. Could just be the picture. You are turning them every day, right? If not they could be settling and the top edge becoming a ridge that would dry out quicker.
Quote from: Gregore on November 22, 2016, 05:39:39 AM
These cheeses should be ready Soon ??.. they were made on oct 10th
Yes, these are ready, they have a bitter taste to them compared to my 1st brie wheels. I accidentally left a wheel out last night and now it's fully ripe :-\
These wheels are made from 1 1/2 gallons each. I'm thinking of going back to the 1 gallon per wheel. It seems like I can't control ones these size.
Quote from: Al Lewis on November 22, 2016, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: AeonSam on November 21, 2016, 01:11:36 PM
Also, is that Cam 2" thick?
Also, I noticed that your wheels seem to have a bit of elephants foot. Could just be the picture. You are turning them every day, right? If not they could be settling and the top edge becoming a ridge that would dry out quicker.
So that's what that's called aye? It definitely looks like an elephant's foot. As far as I know, I flipped them every day. I may have to resort to twice. Thanks!
Sam
You can also keep,them in the mold for the first day or 2 until they firm up a little and that will stop the slumping/ elephant foot
So,
I lost these to the garbage. I ate some of the paste but the rind was crumbly and gooey at the same time. I'm thinking that I may need to humidify my entire wine fridge instead of napkins in my ripening boxes. I don't have a clear idea of what went wrong after wrapping these. When I've made these thinner, they've worked very well.
Anyone have thoughts on the cave cube?
Also, I was asking Yoav from Artisan geek about really thin rinds and how to make them and one suggestion he had was to use more than one strain of pc. Has anyone else done this and if so, what have been your results? Thanks
Sam
You threw them out ...... they could not be salvaged by adding to cooked food?
A lot of it was eaten in various ways, but a lot of the rind was tossed.
Sam
I use PC SAM for my cams and quite happy with it. I pat the rind when flipping the cams too, I read it helps to achieve thinner rind.
AnnDee, that's typically what I use on Brie. Have you gotten really thin rinds on other soft ripened cheeses?
Sam
Quote from: AnnDee on December 02, 2016, 03:04:42 PM
I use PC SAM for my cams and quite happy with it. I pat the rind when flipping the cams too, I read it helps to achieve thinner rind.
Exactly!!
Here's a good short PDF with some tips on bloomy rinds...
http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/pdf/webcheesepdf/Caldwellarticle.pdf (http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/pdf/webcheesepdf/Caldwellarticle.pdf)
:) Danbo
Quote from: AnnDee on December 02, 2016, 03:04:42 PM
I use PC SAM for my cams and quite happy with it. I pat the rind when flipping the cams too, I read it helps to achieve thinner rind.
How does one "pat the rind", Ann?
Quote from: Old Goat on December 03, 2016, 06:50:53 AM
Quote from: AnnDee on December 02, 2016, 03:04:42 PM
I use PC SAM for my cams and quite happy with it. I pat the rind when flipping the cams too, I read it helps to achieve thinner rind.
How does one "pat the rind", Ann?
Lovingly, of course ;D
Actually I just tap them gently with my fingers, I use raw milk so I have firm cheese to begin with even when I pasteurise it. But I have to be extra gentle if I use P&H milk.
You will find that the PC will grow and look, and feel, like soft white cat fur on top. You simply pick up the cheese and smooth the fur flat, very gently, with your hand. Then turn it over and put it back with the other side up so it can grow. Repeat this process every day until you're ready to wrap.
Thanks everyone.
I meant something slightly different by thin rind and because I'm very new at cheese making, I might be using the wrong adjective. I'm refering to these almost imperceptible rinds like on St. Albans of Vermont creamery or alot of Mystic Cheese's products. It almost seems like the surface is unbaked bread dough, very soft, tight and thin. It looks like there's hardly any transition between the paste and the rind.
Know what I mean? :)
Sam
Seems like that would be a good thing. If you have a thick skin on these you may experience "slip skin" where the internal cheese touching the rind gets very soft and the center is still firm. Then when you try to lift one the skin breaks letting the internal cheese run out. Not good cheese.
Sam, I hate to hear of this loss, though I'm glad you were able to salvage some of the paste.
I use PC-ABL, along with a tiny bit of Geo 13, and confess that my rinds are not the thinnest in the world - certainly nothing like what you are describing. But I haven't really cared, because I'm not getting slip-skin, and it all tastes good! :)