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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 28, 2016, 10:31:11 PM

Title: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 28, 2016, 10:31:11 PM
I tried this once before but the white mould didn't grow. My guess is that I was not careful enough with re-hydrating the PC. Anyway, I decided that it would be a good time to try again so that I have some around Christmas.
I started yesterday. The process so far is:

(From "Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking" - Gianaclis Caldwell)

3L Fleurieu Jersey Pasteurised, Non-homogenised milk. P = 3.3% F = 4.8%
I00 ml Fleurieu Pouring Cream F = 35.5 %
• 1⁄12  teaspoon ( dash ) of M235 culture
• 0.36g (pinch) Penicillium Candidum (rehydrate 16 hours before use in 150ml of cool, boiled water with 1⁄12  teaspoon of salt and 1⁄12  teaspoon of sugar added)
• Approx. 1/4 drop(0.015g) Geotrichum Candidum
• 0.6ml of 200 IMCU rennet in 12ml of water.
• 1.0 ml of CaCl2 in 20ml of water.
• Morge of blue cheese (LA Vera Adel Blue)blended in cool, boiled water

Warmed combined milk and cream to 31C
Added cultures and leave for 2 min.
Stirred culture in for 3 min. and ripened for 20 min.
Stirred in CaCl2 and rested for 5 min.
Stirred in rennet for 2 min. Flocculation occurred at 14 min. Coagulation time = 6x = 84 min.
Cut to 15 mm. Rested 5 min.
Stirred gently for 10 min. Rested 5 min.
Drained into cloth-lined colander and allowed to drain for 20 min.
Ladled a layer of the curds into two 95mm lined moulds. Sprinkle on a few drops of the blue cheese morge.
Drain for 10 min.
Added further layers of curds interspersed with morge.
Allowed to drain for 21 hrs. Turned at 30min,  2 hrs, 5 hrs, 8 hrs and 11 hrs  and 23hrs. Temp kept in the low 20s.
Salted ½ tsp per cheese per side with 2 hrs between sides. (pH of whey at start of salting ~ 4.5 / target 4.7-4.8)
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: AnnDee on October 29, 2016, 12:34:04 AM
Looking good Andrew. Love the pics!
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 29, 2016, 12:50:22 AM
Thanks, Ann. Here's hoping...
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: awakephd on October 29, 2016, 08:12:24 PM
Andrew, if you don't get the results you're looking for this time, I'm wondering if you're using a bit too much salt. If I understand correctly, you're using a total of 2 tsp salt for cheese made from 3.1 liters of milk+cream, for a ratio of .645 tsp of salt per liter of milk used.

By comparison, when I make a camembert, I use a total of 4.5 tsp of salt per cheese for 8.044 liters of milk+cream, for a ratio of .559 tsp of salt per liter of milk used. Not a huge difference, but ... you might try cutting back your salt a bit.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 30, 2016, 12:25:36 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, Andy.
On checking Caldwell's recipe I find that she only uses 1/4 tsp per side, so you may be onto something.On the other hand, the amount I have used is the same as I use for Camemberts and I have not had any problems with them.
We'll see what happens, but I will bear your suggestion in mind.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Gregore on October 30, 2016, 05:34:36 AM
Cams are 1.2 to 1.7 percent salt to weight of final cheese.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 30, 2016, 06:35:01 AM
Thanks for the information Gregore.
As I didn't weigh the cheeses, I don't know just what percentage of salt I've used but some rough calculations would seem to indicate that I have indeed oversalted them.
I will be making some Camemberts in the next week or so, so I will give this some consideration.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: AnnDee on October 30, 2016, 09:00:50 AM
I use 2% of salt on my cams as we like it slightly saltier. It still make good cams. I doubled that by mistake once, and PC was not forming properly and it wasn't ripening for a long time.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on October 30, 2016, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: AnnDee on October 30, 2016, 09:00:50 AM
I use 2% of salt on my cams as we like it slightly saltier. It still make good cams. I doubled that by mistake once, and PC was not forming properly and it wasn't ripening for a long time.
This discussion made me curious, so I weighed the cheeses: a total of 574g in two of them. That gives me a surprisingly high yield of around 18% but means that the salt will be around 2% which, hopefully, will be alright.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Gregore on October 31, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
2% should be okay ... Some will have come off with the whey .

They might take a few days longer to get PC so try increasing the temperature to 60 until they start to get it .

Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on November 01, 2016, 06:12:47 AM
Quote from: Gregore on October 31, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
2% should be okay ... Some will have come off with the whey .

They might take a few days longer to get PC so try increasing the temperature to 60 until they start to get it .
Not much did come off with the whey. They have not lost hardly any whey since I put them in the aging container straight after they were salted.
I pierced them yesterday and sprayed the PC on today. They are currently at 13C but the idea of raising the temperature a little sounds worth trying.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Gregore on November 02, 2016, 03:42:24 AM
I some times take mine out of the cave for a few hrs per day to give them a little  tropical vacation ,  to help increase the PC growth .
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on November 08, 2016, 04:44:54 AM
PC starting to burst out all over these little beauties (and on the Cams which I made a few days afterwards).
No sign of any blue in the holes though, but who knows what is happening on the inside. I don't intend to worry about what I can't control.
I've turned the temperature down again and I will probably re-pierce them somewhere down the track.
Once I get a good white overcoat I'll move them to a colder location.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: awakephd on November 08, 2016, 06:05:46 PM
Looking good ... eager to see the final results!
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: AnnDee on November 08, 2016, 11:13:57 PM
Me too, waiting to see how this one turn up.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on November 09, 2016, 09:13:10 AM
Thanks Andy, Ann. Me too.
I saw the first hint of blue today, so all is on track.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on November 20, 2016, 09:27:10 PM
I now have a sparse and patchy white bloom on my Blue Bries. I think it's mostly Geo but with some small tufts of PC. I've had them sharing aging boxes for the last few days with some Camemberts. That has now stopped because the Cams, which were made later than the Blue Bries, are now fully covered and ready to be moved to a colder environment.
The good news is that the blue seems to be well established, so I should get something worthwhile out of this, even if it is not really Blue Brie.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: awakephd on November 21, 2016, 03:26:07 PM
Those look really good to me! Of course, I've not made a blue-brie before, but it looks to me like you've got all the pieces in place - blue, geo, and PC.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Danbo on November 21, 2016, 06:10:35 PM
Anxiously waiting... :)
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: AnnDee on November 22, 2016, 01:37:30 AM
I agree with Andy, that looks nice and with a gooey paste it would be perfect.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on December 24, 2016, 11:51:46 PM
Merry Christmas to all on the forum!
I opened one of these yesterday. The other one is going to my brother's today to be part of the festivities.
With the lack of PC, I'm not really sure that I could describe them as Blue Bries. They do, however, look pretty ugly and, as usual, that's a sign of a good cheese. These are really nice: soft and creamy with a good blue taste.
I would like to know why the PC didn't develop but, given the way they turned out, I'm not too worried about that.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Danbo on December 25, 2016, 09:00:50 AM
Nice! A cheese for U... :)
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on December 25, 2016, 10:06:36 AM
Thanks Danbo.
Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: awakephd on December 25, 2016, 04:44:42 PM
Lovely! A cheese for you and a Merry Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Season's Greetings to all!
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on December 26, 2016, 04:26:01 AM
Thanks Andy and all the best to you.
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Boofer on December 26, 2016, 02:29:27 PM
Mmmm, looks tasty! :P  Have a cheese.

Looks like you'll be repeating this effort to nail down the PC. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Blue Brie 2
Post by: Andrew Marshallsay on December 26, 2016, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: Boofer on December 26, 2016, 02:29:27 PM

Looks like you'll be repeating this effort to nail down the PC.
Yes, definitely on the list.
Thanks for the cheese, Boofer.