Hi everyone, from London UK. :) My first post.
Got here in search of some answers and read a lot of useful advice from the knowledgeable folks here, so thanks for that! :)
I have made an attempt at FdA style cheese following a video on youtube and so far, looks like I'm doing alright. Cheeses look fine and smell very nice. Not a trace of stink of ammonia or anything else equally undesirable.
This images posted are today's and it is a day 14 of ageing in my little wine cooler where I keep the temperature at about 10C and RH under the plastic bell that cheeses are under is just over 80%.
I've never made any cheese before and this is my very first time, so please be gentle with me. :)
Here is my 'cave':
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/cave-day14_zpsunwzj8b7.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/cave-day14_zpsunwzj8b7.jpg.html)
Note to self: clean the cave door.
And here are my cheeses:
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/day14_zpshgqu1lng.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/day14_zpshgqu1lng.jpg.html)
My questions are:
How do they look to you? Is there too much PR molud and should I wash it with brine and when?
It looks like I lucked it so far but at my wits end of what to do next.
Btw, great forum, probably the best cheese-making advice bank on the planet. Keep it up. :)
I couldn't wait any longer and washed cheeses with brine. They are airing under some paper towels on the kitchen table. I'll put them back in the cave after an hour or so.
Here are the pictures:
I think they look fantastic. Glad you are posting. AC4U for a great cheese!
Quote from: Duntov on October 29, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
I think they look fantastic. Glad you are posting. AC4U for a great cheese!
Thank you Duntov, much appreciated.
Do you think I'm doing it right? It is my first time at cheese making and I'm quite proud of this so far.
They smell like a nice blue cheese already, I'm planning on checking them with a
trier potato peeler in couple of weeks time, tasting some, then vac-pack the rest for further development.
Am I thinking right?
First time??????? I don't believe you.... Looks great!
A cheese for you... :-)
Quote from: Danbo on October 29, 2016, 06:07:01 PM
First time??????? I don't believe you.... Looks great!
A cheese for you... :-)
I swear it's my first time. Totally virgin cheesemaker, blessed are we. :D
Didn't wan't to start with ricotta or queso fresco, or anything like that, jumped straight into a deep end with blue cheese.
And now I'm hooked on this. It's terrible.
So difficult to wait for things to happen.
HB, they look good to me. Have you pierced these? It looks like it from the picture, but not completely sure. If so, have you pierced them on more than one occasion?
And by the way, welcome to the forum!
Can't wait to see the final results...
I started making Feta... and then I just went crazy (see attached photo of my cave when it was all full)...
Exciting! :-)
Keep in mind that if you vacumm bag , it will kill all blue growth. It will still age and get better just not more blue.
Yes. Vacuum is for cheeses where you don't want the blues...
I'm actually not sure that vac.bagging is a good idea. Most of my cheeses are a bit bitter and I think that it is because the moist can't escape. I will go back to waxing or making natural rinds.
Great looking cheese and for a first ... Wow!
The rewards of jumping in the deep end.
Have a cheese from me and, by the way, welcome to the Forum.
Quote from: Danbo on October 30, 2016, 06:29:46 AM
Yes. Vacuum is for cheeses where you don't want the blues...
I'm actually not sure that vac.bagging is a good idea. Most of my cheeses are a bit bitter and I think that it is because the moist can't escape. I will go back to waxing or making natural rinds.
Hmm, I really wanted to get vacuum packer for other things as well as cheese, now not so sure...
Would natural rind occur if I keep brine washing? I got an inspiration from this post: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15512.0.html, (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15512.0.html,) this guy seems to know what he's doing.
How do I know if the cheese ready to cut? It already smells like a nice blue and it is very difficult for me to leave it alone.
Thanks everyone for replies, I'll keep you updated with the progress.
Quote from: awakephd on October 29, 2016, 07:37:55 PM
HB, they look good to me. Have you pierced these? It looks like it from the picture, but not completely sure. If so, have you pierced them on more than one occasion?
And by the way, welcome to the forum!
Hi awakephd, thanks for welcome. :)
Yes, I pierced them twice. First, according to the instruction on the video, just after they finished draining and before I put them in the cave, second time on day 10 or thereabout. They seem to have developed nice blueing in the holes. You can see it in the close up images.
In my experience the cheeses in the bags will start expelling moist and that makes the cheese sour/bitter (I think). You can then remove it from the bag and revac.
Vac. is a lot easier than washing or waxing, but my results are not that good. I know that other members in the forum have better experiences wirh vac. Most (all?) Industrial cheddar are vac.packed to age.
I know of bags that allow damp from the cheese to pass through but I haven't found a shop that has them.
I once made two blue cheeses (search for Big Blue in the forum) and vac.pacled them when they were ready. The blue mold stopped developing futher but stayed put. The cheese became very soft and damp.
Quote from: Danbo on October 30, 2016, 03:08:40 PM
In my experience the cheeses in the bags will start expelling moist and that makes the cheese sour/bitter (I think). You can then remove it from the bag and revac.
Vac. is a lot easier than washing or waxing, but my results are not that good. I know that other members in the forum have better experiences wirh vac. Most (all?) Industrial cheddar are vac.packed to age.
I know of bags that allow damp from the cheese to pass through but I haven't found a shop that has them.
I once made two blue cheeses (search for Big Blue in the forum) and vac.pacled them when they were ready. The blue mold stopped developing futher but stayed put. The cheese became very soft and damp.
Thank you Danbo. :)
I just took my cheeses out of the cave for an hour to air a bit. They smell so good already. I wonder how so soon, it's only been two weeks.
I've ordered vac-packer and some waxed papers, just in case. Still none the wiser what to do next. I'll wash them with brine every other day (as the forum member Boofer did to his FdA) for another couple of weeks, then I'll try to take out the segment with a potato peeler and than either vac-pack it or leave it for a bit longer. That is if they don't get spoiled by then.
Hmm ... I had posted a reply, or thought I did, but I'm not seeing it now. So if this turns out to be a repeat, my apologies.
I generally let my Gorgonzolas go for 8 weeks or so, until the blue is well developed; then I cut them into quarters and *lightly* vacuum-bag them - stopping the vacuum when all the air is out, but before it really begins to squeeze the cheese. This lets the cheese continue to age without further development of the blue. After another month or two, the flavor is delicious ... and the cheese can continue to age in the vac-bags without getting too overwhelming for quite a long time. The first picture below shows the quarters of a 6-gallon make, just after they were cut and bagged; the second picture shows the piece of this that I am currently consuming, now at 11 months since it was made. I don't go through blues very fast, since I'm the only one in the family that likes them ... but this continues to be a really, really good cheese. Texture is firm, somewhat creamy / crumbly - seems just right to me! And now, with age, it is starting to develop a bit of the "crunchies" - something I associate more with a parmesan, but apparently it can happen with a blue as well.
Wow! You do a much better job than me when vacuumbagging. My blue cheeses became way too soft and soked in water.
Honey Badger: As you can see some of the more experienced cheese heads in here master the art of vacuumbagging. :)
Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.
I can't even formulate my questions, so many unknowns.
Next week my new vac-packer will arrive and after I check cheese with a trier I'll make a decision on what to do next.
I'm designing labels for my cheeses now. :)
That's a great looking FdA! This is my next cheese to try (I almost had a crack over the weekend, but decided on a Castle Blue and Havarti instead), really looking forward to how this turns out for you.
I've ordered vacuum-packer, should be with me in a day or two.
Now looking into pH metres. I wonder if the cheapo ones for aquariums will do the trick? Any advice on that?
Thanks.
HB, I'm all about cheap -- as in, my primary cheese mold is a recycled bucket, my cheese press is made out of wood recycled from old desks, etc. But I have to say that I have yet to see anyone here who has found a cheap solution to a pH meter that really works for cheese. Not to say that you might not be the first ... but from one cheapskate careful and frugal shopper to another, this may be a place where you have to invest some money. Not sure how much it will cost in the UK; here in the US, many of us are using an Extech 100, which runs under $100 US - not cheap, but not outrageously expensive.
I totally agree...
Invest in a good PH-meter - the cheap ones are just crap for cheese making.
Use PH-sticks if you don't have a good meter - they can give a rough indication (much better than a bad meter)...
Thank you guys. I'll wait until I decide on my next cheese to shop for a good pH meter.
I've started to brine wash the cheeses. I use same brine I brined cheeses in, just take a small amount and boil it in a microwave together with a clean cloth. Once the cloth and brine cooled down, gently wipe the cheeses with.
Is that how it's done?
Sorry for bombarding with questions and thank you for everything so far. Cheeses are looking good and they (still) smell good.
HB, there are a couple of reasons to wash the rind of a cheese. One is to clean off or at least knock back excessive mold. I confess that I've never used brine for this purpose, so I don't know the merits or otherwise of using a saturated brine (which is what you are getting by boiling down your brine). Instead, when I want to remove mold from the rind, I generally either use white wine or vinegar, perhaps with some salt crystals to provide a bit of abrasive action. I don't know if this is any better than using brine; it is just what I have always used. Maybe someone else can comment ...
The other reason to wash the rind of a cheese is to encourage growth, not of mold, but of b. Linens. For this purpose, you want a light brine, 3-5% if I recall correctly; many people will make this brine with some white wine in place of some of the water.
The question is ... do you really want to achieve either of the above results with this type of cheese? I have not made a FdA, so I don't know what the rind is "supposed" to look like. But for what it is worth, for the blues I am more familiar with, Stiltons and Gorgonzolas, you never wash the outside; you want to leave the blue that develops there as part of the nature of the cheese. The only reason I can think of to wash it would be if you are getting an infestation of some type of mold other than the PR that you added to the cheese. (If it is just the PR, why remove it -- it is the same thing that you have running through the inside of the cheese!)
Again, others with more experience may chime in ... that's part of the beauty of this forum; we can share what we know, but we all are eager to learn from others' experience as well!
Go with out a ph meter if you can not afford at least the Extech the next level up is the Bluetooth Hanna designed for cheese at double the Extech price.
It is best if you can find 3 sets that have a very narrow measuring range as possible that way they will be more accurate . You will need to detect 4.7 to 4.8 for cams , blues and 5.3 to 5.4 For tommes and Gouda and 6 to 6.1 for knowing when to put the curd into the molds .
A strip,that measures 4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5 will just be letting you know that you missed the target you were shooting for so you would be better off with out .
Only the 5.5 will be useful
Quote from: Honey Badger on November 01, 2016, 05:18:16 PM
Sorry for bombarding with questions
Never mind that. Keep them coming.
Thank you guys. I will invest in a good meter for my next cheese. I really want to get as scientific on its arse as possible. :)
Tonight will be their first wine wash. I like the idea to involve wine with cheese and there will be no danger of over salting.
You da best, many thanks. :)
Quote from: Honey Badger on October 30, 2016, 07:41:58 AM
Hmm, I really wanted to get vacuum packer for other things as well as cheese, now not so sure...
The vacuum bagger really changed the way I am able to make & preserve my cheese efforts. Check this link (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11545.msg89442.html#msg89442).
All of the blue cheeses I have ever purchased (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9337.msg66955.html#msg66955) have all been wrapped in plastic wrap before being vacuum-sealed. They all have a "wetness" when the vacuum bag is opened. I do not recall any of them characterized by sourness or bitterness from the trapped whey. I have followed this same technique for my blue cheeses. The vacuum seal does stop further blue growth, but the Fourme d'Ambert cheeses I have made, sectioned, and vacuum-sealed have been wonderful...very satisfying. :P :)
Good looking cheeses, Honey Badger. Have a cheese.
-Boofer-
The only cheese I have had moisture form in when vac- bagged is when the bag did not hold a perfect seal
My last machine would not seal perfectly and so it would allow air in and the moisture would form. And yes some sourness
Thank you for replies and cheeses. :)
My vac-packer has arrived and I also have some waxed papers which I would wrap cheese segments in first, before vacuuming. Does that sound like a good idea?
The cheeses are 18 days old today. They smell really nice and I'm finding it dificult to leave 'em alone. I really want to taste it. Tonight I'll try and give them wine wash, dry outside for a bit and back to the cave.
What would indicate to me it is right/good time to take a sample? I bought cheap potato peeler that will do the trick I hope.
Yesterday I washed them with a nice sauvignon blanc. I forgot to buy paper towels so I used hairdrier. Couple pics for your viewing pleasure. :)
Quote from: Honey Badger on November 03, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
Thank you for replies and cheeses. :)
My vac-packer has arrived and I also have some waxed papers which I would wrap cheese segments in first, before vacuuming. Does that sound like a good idea?
The cheeses are 18 days old today. They smell really nice and I'm finding it dificult to leave 'em alone. I really want to taste it. Tonight I'll try and give them wine wash, dry outside for a bit and back to the cave.
What would indicate to me it is right/good time to take a sample? I bought cheap potato peeler that will do the trick I hope.
Anyone?
Still looks great!
I know nothing about the aging requirements of this type of cheese and when it should be eaten .
The worst that can happen from taking a core sample is you end up with it not being ready and you need to put the sample core back in. This some times give you a bit of blue in the pocket left if the core does not go all the way back in .
Not a big deal really as it does not spread
The hardest part about the first cheese is the waiting .
Quote from: Gregore on November 05, 2016, 05:43:54 AM
The hardest part about the first cheese is the waiting .
So true. It's so hard it hurts. :D
I'll try and wait another week before taking sample. That would be week 4 and according to recipe, the right time to do it.
As difficult as it is, I would wait. Distract yourself by making another cheese style. If you check Jim Wallace's guidelines (https://www.cheesemaking.com/FourmeAmbert.html), you'll see an aging time of three months or longer.
You will be much happier down the road if you permit the cheese to develop over time. ;)
If you really have to use the potato peeler, peel some potatoes or carrots. ;D
-Boofer-
Quote from: Boofer on November 05, 2016, 02:30:07 PM
As difficult as it is, I would wait. Distract yourself by making another cheese style. If you check Jim Wallace's guidelines (https://www.cheesemaking.com/FourmeAmbert.html), you'll see an aging time of three months or longer.
You will be much happier down the road if you permit the cheese to develop over time. ;)
If you really have to use the potato peeler, peel some potatoes or carrots. ;D
-Boofer-
Thank you Boofer. I regard you as a FdA expert, you made some amazing FdA cheeses I read all of your posts on the subject and would be overjoyed if I get similar success with mine.
I will wait another week, then I'll vac-bag them and move to the fridge for at least another two weeks but then I will wait no longer. I'm organising a gathering of some friends to taste the cheese and have a few bevs.
I'm thinking of making another batch next weekend, that'll give me strenght of nerve I hope.
Another question that my be silly to some of you, but my friends raised an issue of possibility being poisoned by my cheese; how do I know if it is safe to eat?
Is it good enough if it looks and smells good?
One thing I can tell you is that we ALL have had exactly the same thoughts run through our heads when we first started to make and serve out cheeses. It is a by product of a culture that has taken to heart the pasteure theory of 1 bad bug equals Ill health , when what is actually closer to the truth is lots of bad bugs and ill health Leads to sickness .
Okay , does any one have access to Linuxboy to confirm a post that I read somewhere on here . Where he says that cheese can not host bad molds ? Something about the secondary growth of the mold where it creates the toxins and that cheese does not host that secondary growth .
If not I will spend the time to look for it as it is the most asked question of all on here and the one we all think about when we first start and the one that sends more cheese to the bin that any other thought .
And if I do find that elusive post I will ask the moderators to make a sticky out of it.
Now that is not to say that you can not contaminate your milk with some other things that can lead to issues or that you could buy milk from a store that already has issues .
But over all you have a greater risk of getting in a car accident, or being struck by lightning than you do of getting ill making cheese .
Hope some of this helps lessen your fears , and if not just send me your cheese and I will let you you when it it all eaten if it was safe or not . ;D
Thanks Gregore, I feel much easier now. :)
This forum contains so much information that is so easy to get lost in it.
They look fantastic. I might suggest that you air them out at room temperature for an hour a day, if you're not doing so already. AC4U! ;D
Quote from: Al Lewis on November 06, 2016, 03:14:02 PM
They look fantastic. I might suggest that you air them out at room temperature for an hour a day, if you're not doing so already. AC4U! ;D
Sometimes I do. Not every day though.
They lost so much weight, I'm worried if I wait too long I'll be left with nothing. :)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/weights_zpslkvbrjcv.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/weights_zpslkvbrjcv.jpg.html)
So, I decided to cut into round cheese on Saturday to see whats going on in there and will try to make a new batch of the same cheese as I have all ingredients but milk which I will get fresh on the day.
Cheeses smell very nice and inviting. So chuffed with the result so far.
This is normal to loose a fair amount of weight , most of it happened in the first few weeks and then it slows down
One can see this in the amount of humility in the cheese fridge / cave when a lot of new cheese are in there and how the humidity drops when they have aged a while , this is even more obvious when you use smaller containers to age cheese .
It looks ready to me:
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/Day24-J_zpseqglfzyl.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/Day24-J_zpseqglfzyl.jpg.html)
;D
Last few days I've been airing them for about an hour every evening. Gosh, they do smell fantastic. :)
Does anybody know how would I know when they are ready to cut and taste? I'm quite impatient now, it's been almost 4 weeks since conception and the blue mould seems to have establish itself nicely. All I want is a little taste, then I'll vac-bag the pieces and can leave it for as long as it takes. I just need to see the inside. :D
This waiting is killing me. :D
Quote from: Gregore on November 06, 2016, 06:18:02 AM
One thing I can tell you is that we ALL have had exactly the same thoughts
I, for one, have had those same thoughts. On day 1, I sampled just a tiny bit. When I woke on day 2, I sampled a bit more. Ascending doses. I'm still here. Hope that helps!
You have 2 cheeses both close in size you could always cut 1 and save the other .
Dam the waiting is even getting hard for me.
Quote from: Gregore on November 11, 2016, 04:43:12 AM
You have 2 cheeses both close in size you could always cut 1 and save the other .
Dam the waiting is even getting hard for me.
This is all I needed, thank you Gregore! :D
I'll go to the specialist cheese shop to see if they have any FdA so I have something to compare my cheese with. I'll let you know what happens next.
Just got a nice chunk of original FdA cheese to compare.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/FdA%20Original_zps8rdla0ly.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/FdA%20Original_zps8rdla0ly.jpg.html)
Tonight tasting with a nice glass (or 6) of wine. :)
Looking forward to some pictures and a taste report...
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/jake2halves_zpsjtgztqnf.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/jake2halves_zpsjtgztqnf.jpg.html)
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/served_zpswdevkllv.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/served_zpswdevkllv.jpg.html)
Little too young but very tasty little cheese. Really proud of my first endevour.
Thank you all for your advice and support. :)
Kudos to you, Badger. Have a cheese.
-Boofer-
It will get easier to wait as you acquire more cheeses , that is assuming you do not eat them faster than you make them.
Thanks for the cheeses guys. :)
Yes, it will be easier from now. I had an itch that is now scratched and will let the other cheese ripen properly. I'll give it as long as it takes.
And this is your first cheese ever???
Amazing!!!
Looks good - can almost taste it...
Here - have a cheese from me.
:) Danbo
Great job!! Have another cheese on me!! ;D
A cheese for you from me as well!
This is at about 6 1/2 weeks.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt44/hadzialagic/elwood_zpsiaanhs1j.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/hadzialagic/media/elwood_zpsiaanhs1j.jpg.html)
Very hard to touch, is that normal? How would I know when is ready? Should it be softer to touch? It does smell great tho.
:)