CheeseForum.org ยป Forum

CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: DoctorCheese on December 31, 2016, 08:10:57 PM

Title: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on December 31, 2016, 08:10:57 PM
The more I look in to cheese making the clearer it becomes to me that I need to find my own path away from all of the stringent recipes. That being said, I must constantly steal bits and pieces of method and ingredient planning as I go along or I would end up with too many failed attempts. I made two brevibacterium linens cheeses: Tall Red is mimicking a Meunster in that I will give it several applications of bacteria to its rind, Flat Red is pretty close to a recipe for Tilsit and will not be getting a bacterial wash but rather just a series of brine cleanings. Tall Red is already starting to bulge and I pray to the cheese gods he does not tear or flatten out too much or the name may become ironic.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Danbo on December 31, 2016, 09:01:58 PM
A cheese for that. :-)
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Al Lewis on December 31, 2016, 10:55:45 PM
If you read a book titled "The Art of Natural Cheesemaking" by David Asher you will find that there are other ways.  A lot of what we do today is based on health regulations and attempting to recreate something someone else did.  I don't think Artisan Cheese making should be that way.  I like to explore and do things outside of the box.  Hell the first cheese with b linens on it probably got that way after some cheese maker with athletes foot handled his sandals on scratched his foot while making the cheese.  Don't laugh, the same b linens that make our cheese bright orange and stinky is the same thing that gives you athletes foot.  The first blue may have come about from leaving the cheese beside some molding bread.  Most of these things were created by accident.
  So have some fun and maybe, just maybe, you'll be lucky enough to have an accident of your own and come up with something delicious! ;)
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: awakephd on January 03, 2017, 12:15:12 AM
As I understand it, B. linens is pretty much everywhere in the atmosphere; you can get it to take root on a cheese by washing the rind in a 3% brine, even without adding B. linens to the wash (or touching your feet first!). In my experience, this is true, but the results will vary from one attempt to another, so the addition of B. linens to the wash helps to give consistent results.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 03, 2017, 12:55:41 AM
Andy, I think I may have misrepresented my cheeses slightly. They both had b linens added to the curds. The difference will be that only one will have additional b linens added as part of the brine wash.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 06, 2017, 08:38:19 AM
Update-- I am worried and would like some advice. My red mold cheeses are very slimy. I have been keeping them at 90-95% humidity. Should I lower the humidity to dry them out a bit? They do have the slightest of orange coloring so I think the B linens is beginning to grow.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Al Lewis on January 06, 2017, 03:25:35 PM
I would drop it to 85% personally.  I keep mine there all of the time but that's just me.  Never have slimy cheese though.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 06, 2017, 03:26:43 PM
I have not made munster but I make Tilsits on regular basis. I think it's supposed to be slightly slimy. When it gets sticky like that, that is the time I start washing.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 06, 2017, 05:27:56 PM
Thanks AnnDee and Al for advice. This morning I paid respect to both of  your  suggestions and took my red cheeses out of the fridge and gave them a good wash in 3% brine. I am now  Air drying them at room temperature for an hour ( which was a suggestion made by someone else on the forum for someone else's cheese but I am on my phone right now and cannot quote them easily).  I will then proceed to make sure the cheeses at a lower humidity as per Al's  suggestion, however I am aging them in Tupperware so the humidity will not be an exact science but I think I can get it close through varying gaps in the lids. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Boofer on January 07, 2017, 05:23:53 AM
Quote from: Al Lewis on January 06, 2017, 03:25:35 PM
Never have slimy cheese though.
Could the slimy be yeast? That could be fine.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 07, 2017, 07:39:30 AM
Quote from: Boofer on January 07, 2017, 05:23:53 AM
Could the slimy be yeast? That could be fine.

Is there a way to tell if its from yeast? It is difficult to photograph something like slimy in such a way that you could feel it with your eyes :) but I can tell you that after a brine washing, air drying, and light pat down with paper towels, the rind is slightly tacky but all seem much healthier.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Gregore on January 08, 2017, 04:51:10 AM
If it is really slippery like a slug then it is geo.  It  has taken a little longer than  than the 5 or 6 days one might expect but now is when you want to start washing them .  Geo is expected first as it raises the surface ph a little so the b.linens can start up.

Not too much wash liquid though , after a few days they should start to dry out  on the surface a little from day to day , if not use less wash.

And your paper towel wipe will not hurt them I have done that when I felt the the surface was not getting dry enough from day to day
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 08, 2017, 07:00:11 AM
Quote from: Gregore on January 08, 2017, 04:51:10 AM
Not too much wash liquid though , after a few days they should start to dry out  on the surface a little from day to day

The recipe I originally followed said to wash them every other day. What do you suggest for my big one and my small one? Should I bother air drying them 1 hour per day at room temp or just wait out the tackyness? Thanks ^-^

At the moment, they are both slightly orange (the smallest of hues) and the small one has a few tiny spots of blue mold starting.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Gregore on January 09, 2017, 05:44:06 AM
When you wash,  shmeire a little extra  around the blue and distrust their growth this tends to work well at keeping them away on washed rinds , so far I have not had them spout up everywhere which is what one would expect to happen  . But I think they do not like the wet. I have never made either of these cheeses so I do not know if they are a gooey inside washed cheese or a moist but medium firm texture .

For the later do every other day , for the gooey type wash every day for a week, then every other day for a week or more , but this cheese can not be too thick in relation to the outside or the inner paste never softens like the outside
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 09, 2017, 06:05:22 AM
For Tilsits, I wash only 2-3 times just until it turns orange slightly (I am not the biggest smelly cheese fan) then I keep in the box for the rest of the aging time. I wipe with brine whenever there is unwanted mold and I wash again with weak brine without the blinens if it gets too red and stinky just to get rid of the stink a little, but if you like it then no need for more washing.
The result normally is a moist, kind of elastic cheese with mild and creamy paste just with a subtle hint of 'aroma'. Very nice.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Boofer on January 09, 2017, 06:46:51 PM
A lot of times, after the linens & geo have done their work, I will wash off the rind under cool running water. Some recipes also call for the removal of the linens.

I'm not particularly fond of all my washed rinds, especially the really funky ones. :P :o

You might be surprised in the desirability of a cheese once the linens is removed. ;) Remember to dry the cheese off after washing it.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: awakephd on January 09, 2017, 08:57:12 PM
I seem to remember that in "the old days," they washed their linens, as well as the rest of their clothes, only once a year.

Oh, wait - maybe that's a different kind of linens ... :)
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 10, 2017, 12:56:49 AM
I agree with Boofer, I might have learnt this from reading his posts  ^-^
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 10, 2017, 01:06:00 AM
Quote from: awakephd on January 09, 2017, 08:57:12 PM
I seem to remember that in "the old days," they washed their linens, as well as the rest of their clothes, only once a year.

Oh, wait - maybe that's a different kind of linens ... :)

LOL.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 14, 2017, 05:39:38 PM
Over 24 hrs my washed rinds went from the whole surface being tacky to now looking a bit drier and getting colonies of PC and PR! Should I wash off the new molds or just let them ride along. Also, the one cheese that has the most growth is starting to soften up.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Al Lewis on January 14, 2017, 08:04:42 PM
I would brush off the blues.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 15, 2017, 07:24:17 PM
~2.5 weeks in. Picture update! first picture is Fat Boy, second is Tall Boy.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Al Lewis on January 15, 2017, 11:50:06 PM
Looking good!
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 16, 2017, 01:35:19 AM
Looks nice, Jobe. From the look of it, I think you still have to age it a bit. And I agree with Al, I would brush the unwanted mold.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Boofer on January 16, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
Quote from: awakephd on January 09, 2017, 08:57:12 PM
I seem to remember that in "the old days," they washed their linens, as well as the rest of their clothes, only once a year.

Oh, wait - maybe that's a different kind of linens ... :)
::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 18, 2017, 05:42:30 PM
What should I do about his giant crack?
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 19, 2017, 12:58:15 AM
Maybe tie it to keep it together?
But I think I will vac seal it so it is protected from mold.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Gregore on January 19, 2017, 05:26:57 AM
That is a sad sight

Butter or lard might work if you do not have too long to age it
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 29, 2017, 06:26:00 PM
I am thinking about cutting this. It is one month old and is starting to feel semi-soft. Any opinions?
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: awakephd on January 30, 2017, 12:08:21 AM
Jobe, that looks gorgeous! I have never made a Tilsit or Muenster, so I don't know if this experience will apply, but for what it is worth - when I am making camemberts, there is always a point, usually right around the 4 week mark, where they start to feel squishy, and I think, "maybe they are ready!" I know, from experience, that they are not quite there yet ... but it is hard to resist going ahead and cutting into them. This is less problematic when I've made 3 cams at once - I can go ahead and eat one that is really a little premature, and then wait another week or two for the other two really to get there. If, as I think, this is your only cheese of this type ... well, it is your call. Again, I don't know whether my experience really applies, but based on that experience, I'd be inclined to wait one more week.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on January 30, 2017, 06:52:27 AM
I got excited and cracked open my "Tall Red" b linens cheese. The texture is very creamy with yummy taste. It would be better with some more age so I am going to bag it and tag it. "Flat Red" is still aging along and I will let it go longer than I did this one.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on January 30, 2017, 06:59:25 AM
Looks great!
The paste looks creamy and screaming for crackers and grapes.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: awakephd on January 30, 2017, 02:02:25 PM
Excellent! AC4U.
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: Al Lewis on January 30, 2017, 02:20:45 PM
Outstanding result!  AC4U!
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: DoctorCheese on February 17, 2017, 05:28:45 AM
I cut open my Flat Red. Very smooth and creamy, soft texture. I aged it a month longer than the Tall Red and the flavor is better. The mesophilic has had time to age the cheese; the Tall Red was mostly just b linens taste. When I make another linens cheese it will be a lightly cooked curd so that there is more bite in the paste. You may not be able to tell, but the strain of b linens I have turned the rind PINK after I washed the orange later off. Pretty cool stuff!
Title: Re: Tall Red (Meunster) and Flat Red (Tilsit)
Post by: AnnDee on February 17, 2017, 06:02:29 AM
Wow!!
That looks fantastic, Jobe! Good Jobe...I mean good job.
A cheese for your success