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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Milk Types, Formats, & Pre-Cheese Making Processing => Topic started by: dougspcs on September 25, 2017, 04:01:24 PM

Title: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 25, 2017, 04:01:24 PM
I'm very novice at this cheesemaking. I've acquired all the supplies to start and watched a good many videos from Gavin Webber..among others.

Locally I've even found a dairy farmer thru a friend who is willing to barter for raw milk for best possible results. Ontario, Canada has strict milk production standards of cleanliness so I shouldn't have to worry about any contamination...BUT?!?!

Is there any special process or handling of the milk as it is raw?? Should I consider stove-top pasteurization?

Not wishing to allow any "BAD" bacteria that the milk may already contain to taint the finished product..since of course it hasn't been pasteurized.

Also, I understand all the sterilization procedures for the containers I'll be transporting the milk from my supplier to home so no need to go into depth on that stuff.

Just interested in advice about the milk itself..

Thanks in advance..Doug
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 25, 2017, 07:22:23 PM
Hi Doug,

Welcome to the cheese forums! 
I also live in Ontario (Caledon), and am a raw milk user from my own family cow...
My general rule of thumb, because I give some away to friends and family and want to be safe, is to gently pasteurize the raw milk for any cheese or milk products that does not get aged more than 80 days. That is the time, by general consensus, that it takes milk born pathogens to dissipate. 

There also is a school of thought that says "if you want the introduced cheese bacteria to behave as advertised, give the flavour profile as advertised, and give a cheese character that is as accurate as possible to the recipe being followed, then gently pasteurize the milk" .... do I do that? ...no...

what may be more important is to respect the fat (cream) content of some recipes... e.g. Most hard cheeses aged for over 8 months want a lower fat milk... buy a milk separator, it will pay for itself quickly :)

Nobody has been made sick from modern healthy cow milk collection, following good milk handling practices, for a long long time... you could get away with never pasteurizing your milk... your choice, make a good decision. PS... careful with young children and raw milk... I've been told they don't have the defense against pathogens like an adult.

Hope that helps, where abouts in Ontario are you?

F
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 25, 2017, 08:54:47 PM
That's fantastic "F"..pretty much chimes in with what most others have said.

But of course in any situation you have the opposition..these conflict of views make it confusing for someone with ZERO knowledge of the subject.

I'll take your advice and see how it turns out..

I like in Sarnia..a few hours from you.

I'm sure that I'll screw a few things up..but being as I'm a pretty meticulous person in most everything I do. This cheesemaking hobby seemed a fun way to pass the time once the cold weather gets here and the summer activities shut down.

Another question on the similar subject relates to another food hobby I also enjoy..smoking. Fish, beef, chicken, turkey...even cheese.

I've smoked store bought cheese and enjoyed it..but am excited to try my own.

My question is: should the smoking be done just after the pressing and before the aging process to allow the smoke to participate in creating the flavour profile as it ages?

Or

Will the smoke impede the aging process by killing the enzymes needed in the aging process..therefore smoke after aging?
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 25, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
Great question... and coincidently I do curing and smoking here too...

Make the cheese first, let it age, when you are ready to divide into smaller pieces and wrap individually ("food saver" is your friend) COLD smoke your cheese portions at that time. If you don't have a cold smoker, use a product called a-maze-n smoking tubes http://www.amazenproducts.com/ (http://www.amazenproducts.com/)  check Amazon for best prices. Tip is not to over smoke your cheese. It's is easy to overpower cheese with smoke, I'm sure you may have come across that already.

Congrats on your choice of new hobby... you have found a great resource right here; the cheese forum. Jump in and contribute, and ask away, no question is silly and great bunch of mature users here. I suggest getting a few good books to learn fundamentals and good practices. Nothing beats learning by doing.

I'm pretty handy with cheese, meat, cooking, food, and consider myself well learned... but even following directions and rehearsed processes, one will be humbled from time to time and will question why something didn't work... so jump in with humility and document everything ... get a handheld pH meter (important). Don't start with mozzarella like many do... it's notariously tricky to master.  Colby, Gouda or Queso Fresco, Camembert are good starting cheeses that don't take too long to be ready to eat .. you will be constantly challenging yourself with new and trickier cheeses, so take it one day at a time and learn well... and most importantly... have fun!

F  ... Fritz  (my real name)
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 01:09:41 AM
Thanks Fritz, good info on the smoking and all the rest. I kinda thought that smoking pre-aging might have detrimental effects on the aging process.

Yes I've got the cold smoke process figured pretty good..even built a cold-smoke generator from internet plans then plumbed it into my smoker box. Had a few over-smoked cheese, but now have that worked out.

Just hoping to compress the process..since after 1st aging the cheese, smoking it means more aging time to let the smoke mellow thru the cheese. I guess I'll just have to work on my patience!!

And yeah..I watched Gavin's mozzarella video..I see what you mean. That will be a bit down the line for me!

Think I'll start with some cheddar, Monterey Jack and some curds to break the ice..though the curds I might use store bought milk to avoid any safety issues.

I'll check back and report once I've tried a few. Doug
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 26, 2017, 01:34:12 AM
Mmmmm... just to make sure we are on the same page.

You aren't "pre-aging" before smoking...The cheese is finished aging  you cut it up to manageable pieces (250-500gms maybe) ... smoke them and wrap in cheese paper or preferably "food saver" cryovac packs.
They are now aged and smoked, sure a little time helps mellow and evenly distributes the smoke, but you really don't need them to "age further". (you will not be eating a 2-7 lb cheese at once I hope) they will mellow out as they wait to be eaten over time...  but technically they are ready to eat now... enjoy!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 10:22:19 AM
Yep, I understood that's what you meant..

Thanks again, talk again soon
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 01:19:28 PM
Sorry Fritz, one more question before I get started.

This is the starter culture I ordered from a supplier on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesophilic-Cheese-Starter-Culture-FREE-100-PAGE-RECIPE-EBOOK-FREE-SHIPPING/111833107053?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesophilic-Cheese-Starter-Culture-FREE-100-PAGE-RECIPE-EBOOK-FREE-SHIPPING/111833107053?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

It doesn't identify by some of the specific mesophilic starters such as M030/031, etc...it seems more generic but still contains the same bacteria strains as the others.

Is this a suitable starter for me to use to get going? As I mentioned..cheddar, monterey jack, curds and probably colby will be my 1st efforts.

Sorry to keep pumping for knowledge..but I figure get all these basic questions out of the way to be sure I'm off to a good start. That way if a cheese flops I'll know it's something I did or didn't do and not the ingredients I used.

Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on September 26, 2017, 01:41:19 PM
Hi Doug, I'll add my welcome to the forum, echo everything Fritz has said, and offer an opinion on the culture you are asking about. This looks similar to Flora Danica, which only a little different from MM100 -- these are both "aromatic" culture blends, meaning that they have some varieties that add a buttery taste, a little extra cheesy aroma, and generate a small amount of gas. While this may or may not be the "ideal" blend to use for a given cheese, you can use it for pretty much anything that requires a mesophilic culture with good results.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 02:42:38 PM
Super thanks for the welcome and the advice..now would the "gas" or any other factor cause a problem for me if it's my intention to vacuum pack immediately after pressing for it's time in the cheese fridge? Should I open and repack during the aging to allow the cheese to "breathe" and not accumulate these gases?

I know I have a lot of questions..but this truly is my 1st time and I new ones keep popping into my head as I think thru the process.

Patience is much appreciated...
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: reg on September 26, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Morning Doug and welcome to the forum.

Before vac packing you should probably wait for three to six weeks (depending on the cheese type) so that your cheese can dry. Many vac to soon and end up with a lot of moisture in the bag
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 03:40:38 PM
Should I wrap in cheese cloth then into the cooler at 13'c then or completely open?

2nd, in small batch of 2lbs will this not draw out too much moisture and leave the cheese dry and crumbly after aging??
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on September 26, 2017, 07:54:08 PM
The gas emitted by this "aromatic" culture will not be a problem with respect to the vac bagging; it is only a small amount that occurs during the early fermentation. At most you will get very small holes in the cheese.

As for how long to wait before vac-bagging - I do think it is good to wait "as long as possible" to let the cheese age & breathe naturally ... but I have been known to bag after a week or even a little less when circumstances dictated this course of action. If moisture collects in the bag, remove, dry for a few days, and re-bag.

The size of the make will certainly have an effect on quickly the cheese dries out - but another major factor is the humidity of the aging space. If your humidity is in the 85-90% range, you should be able to age the cheese fully without ever bagging it, and still not get too dry. My "cave," unfortunately, runs more like 60-70% humidity, so cheeses dry out faster, leading me to bag them to keep them from drying out too much.

No need to wrap in cheese cloth - just put in the cooler / "cave" at 13° or so.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 26, 2017, 09:55:08 PM
Thanks all for your help and opinions ..

I'll be collecting some raw milk next week some time and will be eager to jump in!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 27, 2017, 01:59:40 AM
Lol... I typed a reply, but didn't post it!
Pardon if the below sounds like what Andy posted....

Hey Doug,
If I may recommend: First off, when aging a cheese (after a day or so at room temperature on the counter after pressing), always age it (time, temp, method, maintenance during aging) as per recipe and as per cheese type.... most often, the first month or two requires that one "dries" out the cheese... but don't think of this as "aging" yet. This is a period of rind development and conditioning the cheese for the long aging process. This period requires a "maturing box" a Rubbermaid /Tupperware/lock-n-lock style box to more than comfortably holds the cheese (lots of wiggle room) in a (55*F or as per recipe fridge). I put 2 1/2 inch holes, one on either side so I can close the box lid.. the idea is that the box holds the enough moisture to keep the cheese from cracking on the outside and yet breaths enough to release the moisture from the cheese. The cheese is resting on a cheese mat or raised bottom to keep it from getting wet in the maturing box. The maturing box needs to be kept dry inside and wiped down daily. Prevent drips on the cheese, or bad things will happen (paper towel lightly resting on top of cheese to catch the drips)...the box should be about 85-95% RH. After about a month or two of this period, managing the moulds that will be growing by wiping it down with salt and vinegar. The cheese will have developed a thicker and sealed rind. The cheese will have had time for the cultures to finish doing its thing and begin the particular character of the cheese type. After a month or two, it is time to "food saver" cryovac the cheese for aging.

Hope that helps
F
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 27, 2017, 02:19:42 AM
I'm printing these posts and keeping them in a binder..along with detailed info on the cheeses as I make them.

Thanks for all the valuable help guys..as I mentioned, I'm a pretty analytical person since PC repair is my livelihood.

So this hobby presents challenges of a meticulous nature and I can really wrap my head around that. I look forward to taking all this to practice and find out how it helps me perfect the final product!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on September 27, 2017, 05:32:28 PM
Fritz's suggestion is the easiest way to get a higher-humidity micro-environment for your aging cheese without actually controlling the humidity in the cave - in a ripening box, the cheese itself provides all the humidity you need to maintain 85-90°.

Record keeping is definitely recommended - this is how you can adjust over time to perfect *your* recipe. Keep in mind that cheese is "territorial," meaning that the same recipe made the same way in two different locations is likely to turn out somewhat differently - a function both of the local milk (especially if you are using local raw milk) and of the local microflora that may participate in the process (especially for natural rinds). Especially using raw milk, the cheese will also be seasonal - milk at different stages of the milking cycle will have different characteristics. So keep records to see what is changing at different seasons, and tweak the recipes to get the results you want.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 27, 2017, 05:46:19 PM
Record keeping, you read my mind Andy..I made this today. Did I mention I was a bit ANALytical??

Download and share as you please..

My chance to share back a bit. Thanks again guys..I look forward to hanging with the Curd Nerds!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on September 27, 2017, 08:21:11 PM
Looks good! I have been using a fairly simple spreadsheet that allows me to record all the pertinent information - less organized, but more compact.

Over the last couple of years I have been working, in fits and starts, on a Cheese Log program. It is about 3/4 done; hard to know when I'll get the the time to finish it - I generally can't work on a program effectively with just 30 minutes here or there; I really need to have an entire week or more to focus on it, so that I get back up to speed on what I've done and can push forward. But hopefully in the next few months, I'll find the time ...

If you want to see the work-in-progress, I've attached a .zip file with the Windows version. Sorry, no fancy installer - you will have to create a subdirectory, unzip the contents there, and then run the CheeseDB.exe program. The first time you run it, it will warn that no valid database is selected; just click okay. When you get to the main screen, you will probably want to enlarge it (drag a corner to make it whatever size you want). Then click on the New button (or choose File/New from the menu) to create a new database - give it whatever name you want in whatever directory you want; the default extension is .cdb (for cheese database). Then, to have something to look at, choose the Tools/Fill Sample Data menu item to insert some sample data.

Most of the support structure is in place; some of this is evident in the ability to change the data that is shown:

There is a lot more "substructure" that is under the hood, some of which you can see if you go to the Tools/Options menu (or click on the Options toolbar button) - you will see the various measurements, cheese types, recipe steps, etc. that have been defined. (The various measurements will allow entering a recipe using either metric or USA units, and automatically converting from one to the other.)

What remains to be done is arguably the most important part - entering / editing a recipe - but this part couldn't be done until all the substructure was completed, so this is the part that I'm working on now - or at least, working on when I get a chance. There is a little bit of code in place that you can see when you attempt to edit or add a recipe, and you can see some other code-in-progress if you click on the Tools/Test menu item. But clearly this most important piece of the puzzle is not yet functional ...
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 28, 2017, 01:50:26 AM
Doug, your cheese log looks good thanks for sharing... may I suggest adding pH markers along the cheese make. It gives a more complete story to when things go right (I really wanted to say "when things go bad", but chose to be supportive, encouraging, positive and politically correct... don't get used to it though ;)

Andy... good for you man! Writing code and taking over the world... pentagon watching, changing election results...lol .. seriously looks good, keep at it... if you want, maybe other coding types (leaves me out) on this board can help with it ... open source sort of thing :)
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 28, 2017, 01:47:02 PM
Hey Fritz where do you get supplies??

I'm headed north today for some Kawartha's fishing for the weekend and was thinking about stopping at the Canadian Homebrew Supply in Brampton. I'd like to get some thermophilic culture and a bigger mold.

Ever shopped there?? Are they decent??

Is there anywhere else within reach in SW Ontario or just buy online?

Also, I here you on the PH..I'll look into getting the strips also.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on September 28, 2017, 02:35:56 PM
Doug, a few people here on the forum have gotten some use out of pH strips, but most seem to feel that they are not sufficiently accurate. A pH meter can be a relatively big investment, depending on the type ... and yes, you do get what you pay for. I use the Extech 100, which is mid-level in terms of price and performance - around $100. It has worked well for me, and made a significant difference in the success particularly of Gouda, Asiago, and other cheeses that are pressed before salting.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: reg on September 28, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
Doug have you looked at Glengarry Cheese Making Supplies ? I buy all my supplies there
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: retiredtrucker on September 28, 2017, 11:10:00 PM
Mucho gusto Doug
I like you am a newb in this crazy hobby. I have been buying my cultures from the UK. Seems that no one in the USA or Canada wants to ship down here unless you put up your first born for collateral. So I have found Goat Nutrition Ltd. Bruce Dolby gets my cultures to me in about 7 or 8 days, most stuff out of North America is 2 to 3 weeks unless it comes by DHL or UPS both of which are very dear. Here in Costa Rica aged cheese is very expensive,I'm talking at least 15.00 US dollars a pound so I've been buying my Mesophillic cultures from Bruce and am very happy with the quality as my cheeses are a big hit.
As for a cheese log I use Curd Nerds cheese log ,no place for Ph reading but can write it in on the side.
I sure pity you up there having such a hard time finding fresh raw milk, I get mine from my neighbors and its still warm when I get it home,my biggest problem is cutting the liquid rennet back enough to get a 12 minute mas o menos flocctuation time.
Great talking with you hope we can talk again and good luck.
Hasta Luego
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 29, 2017, 02:50:04 PM
Quote from: reg on September 28, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
Doug have you looked at Glengarry Cheese Making Supplies ? I buy all my supplies there

I looked at them but they are a long way from me..

I stopped at Canadian Homebrew in Brampton..Randy, the owner had a decent selection of supplies. However when I questioned him about culture differences he said.."I don't make cheese"

I got a mold, a couple different cultures, and some lipase..

He was a nice guy and I'd go back again..but not for Intel!!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on September 30, 2017, 02:26:07 AM
Hey Doug... that hombrew place has a few things but I wouldn't call it "a good source" .. as Reg said, Glengarry ( http://www.glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/ (http://www.glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/) )is a good source, another Canadian source is https://www.makecheese.ca/ (https://www.makecheese.ca/)
... in the US is https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com (https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com) , http://www.cheesemaking.com/ (http://www.cheesemaking.com/) , http://www.thecheesemaker.com/ (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/) , https://www.culturesforhealth.com/ (https://www.culturesforhealth.com/) , there are more, but you can google em.

Amazon is another good source of cheese making stuff.

As you see, online shopping is your friend. If I may offer a tip, if you order from some of the US sources they tend to offer up to 30% off on Holiday long weekends ... helps pay for shipping... so best to buy in batches to take advantage of shipping costs.
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on September 30, 2017, 02:39:43 AM
Quote from: Fritz on September 30, 2017, 02:26:07 AM
Hey Doug... that hombrew place has a few things but I wouldn't call it "a good source" .. as Reg said, Glengarry ( http://www.glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/ (http://www.glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/) )is a good source, another Canadian source is https://www.makecheese.ca/ (https://www.makecheese.ca/)
... in the US is https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com (https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com) , http://www.cheesemaking.com/ (http://www.cheesemaking.com/) , http://www.thecheesemaker.com/ (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/) , https://www.culturesforhealth.com/ (https://www.culturesforhealth.com/) , there are more, but you can google em.

Amazon is another good source of cheese making stuff.

As you see, online shopping is your friend. If I may offer a tip, if you order from some of the US sources they tend to offer up to 30% off on Holliday long weekends ... helps pay for shipping... so best to buy in batches to take advantage of shipping costs.

Thanks Fritz..actually US mail order shopping is another hobby of mine!!! Since I live on the border and use US supply for work related supplies I maintain a UPS address in Port.

No extra shipping hassles or cost for me !! I'll be checking out those US links..

I just thought by stopping at Brampton to buy supplies I'd be able to get some extra opportunity to get advice also..but not too much luck there!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on October 02, 2017, 12:10:22 PM
Another question fellows...

I bought some non-iodized salt made by Morton.

It contains calcium silicate as an anti-caking agent.

Is this ok for cheesemaking??
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on October 02, 2017, 12:47:22 PM
Unfortunately, I haven't a clue! Hopefully someone else will chime in ...

I generally use "Pickling Salt" or "Kosher Salt" - but now you have me thinking I need to go back and check the labels on those ...
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on October 03, 2017, 01:52:05 AM
Nothing here to back me up at this time... but I think when they are referring to "cheese salt" it would typically be fine sea salt.... no additives.... I don't think the additives are evil, but the many types of salt would actually produce different amounts by mass... I.e. 1 cup of kosher salt BY MASS or weight ... is  NOT a cup of sea salt BY MASS or weight, it's just the way they pack and layer in said measuring cup. I hope I explained that well enough...

I'm sure it's not a biggie for making cheese ... a little salty or not... but it helps with the consistency of your cheese makes if you use one or the other, and simply document your results.

For meat curing and sausage making, things like salt type need to be well defined and talked about before measuring.

F
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: Fritz on October 03, 2017, 01:52:05 AM
Nothing here to back me up at this time... but I think when they are referring to "cheese salt" it would typically be fine sea salt.... no additives.... I don't think the additives are evil, but the many types of salt would actually produce different amounts by mass... I.e. 1 cup of kosher salt BY MASS or weight ... is  NOT a cup of sea salt BY MASS or weight, it's just the way they pack and layer in said measuring cup. I hope I explained that well enough...

I'm sure it's not a biggie for making cheese ... a little salty or not... but it helps with the consistency of your cheese makes if you use one or the other, and simply document your results.

For meat curing and sausage making, things like salt type need to be well defined and talked about before measuring.

F

Thanks again Fritz..but on that topic I found an inexpensive salt sold retail here in Canada at Metro grocery store.

Aurora Mediterranean Sea Salt..$1.49 / 1kg box. I looked up the nutritional facts and it has nothing added!! No iodine, no anti-caking agents..therefore perfect cheese and CHEAP!! You couldn't beat that with a big club I think!!

2nd..I finished my 1st cheese last night and I'm excited by the results.

Made a cheddar using Kroger brand whole milk..I was a bit concerned that it may have been UHT pasteurized but at least it wasn't homogenized.

It took at exceptional amount of time to make a curd. The recipe said 40 + 10 if needed..it took + 30 and even then barely made a clean break.

But I worked thru it and completed..the results looked good and I now have a nice block air drying. Now to wait for it to age and see how I did??
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Boofer on October 03, 2017, 03:56:11 PM
Just reading through this and felt a need to chime in.... A)
Quote from: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
Now to wait for it to age and see how I did??
Wow, is that all there is to it? I've been doing it wrong.;)  I fuss over, wash the rinds, monitor for incursions, and do so many other things to and for my cheeses. You will too. ;D

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: Boofer on October 03, 2017, 03:56:11 PM
Just reading through this and felt a need to chime in.... A)

  • Searching earlier salt discussions gives us this (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,5651.msg41171.html#msg41171).
  • No one mentioned picking up a good cheesemaking book to provide structure. Check the Library (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,167.0.html). Lots of "best book" discussions...search.
  • Sea salt might seem like a "natural" choice, but consider where it may have been gathered and whatever may have attached to the salt crystals.
  • I use "Pickling Salt". It has done well for me.
Quote from: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
Now to wait for it to age and see how I did??
Wow, is that all there is to it? I've been doing it wrong.;)  I fuss over, wash the rinds, monitor for incursions, and do so many other things to and for my cheeses. You will too. ;D

-Boofer-

While this may seem all basic information and repeat for some..this is new to others and we are gathering information about this hobby from multiple often conflicting opinions. It's not always that clear when you're newb!!

Your input and opinion, albeit seemingly a bit sarcastic and condescending, is still appreciated..maybe it's just the way it read to me!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: awakephd on October 03, 2017, 07:21:43 PM
Based on Boofer's many past posts, he is likely poking fun more at himself than at you. :)
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Fritz on October 04, 2017, 01:29:43 AM
Boofer... you mean that sea gull taste my cheeses have isn't normal ?  ;)
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: Boofer on October 04, 2017, 02:44:52 AM
Quote from: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
Your input and opinion, albeit seemingly a bit sarcastic and condescending, is still appreciated..maybe it's just the way it read to me!
Hey, Doug, sorry for any lack of clarity in my post. Just trying to get the information out there, be concise, and verbally frugal.

Quote from: Fritz on October 04, 2017, 01:29:43 AM
Boofer... you mean that sea gull taste my cheeses have isn't normal ?  ;)
Yes...for that cheese style. :o

Quote from: awakephd on October 03, 2017, 07:21:43 PM
Based on Boofer's many past posts, he is likely poking fun more at himself than at you. :)
Thanks, Andy, I'm so misunderstood. ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: reg on October 04, 2017, 12:22:33 PM
It is funny that the salt type and content has come up in this conversation. I am rereading a book that I purchased years ago, American Farmstead Cheese by Paul Kindstedt and apparently salt plays a very big role in cheese making. A quote from page 130 of the book ' Microorganisms (yeasts, molds and bacteria) vary greatly in their sensitivities to salt concentration, much the same as they vary in sensitivity to PH'

Another quote ' Thus it is not surprising that the salt contents of Swiss type cheese typically falls in the range of around 0.4 to 0.8 percent. Cheese with greater than 1.0 percent salt is likely to develop few eyes and lack the typical Swiss flavor due to strong inhibition of Propionibacterium '

The section goes into a lot of depth with regards to salt types and concentrations in the ripening stages of different types of cheese, very interesting for sure
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: dougspcs on October 05, 2017, 01:10:25 PM
Quote from: Boofer on October 04, 2017, 02:44:52 AM
Quote from: dougspcs on October 03, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
Your input and opinion, albeit seemingly a bit sarcastic and condescending, is still appreciated..maybe it's just the way it read to me!
Hey, Doug, sorry for any lack of clarity in my post. Just trying to get the information out there, be concise, and verbally frugal.

Quote from: Fritz on October 04, 2017, 01:29:43 AM
Boofer... you mean that sea gull taste my cheeses have isn't normal ?  ;)
Yes...for that cheese style. :o

Quote from: awakephd on October 03, 2017, 07:21:43 PM
Based on Boofer's many past posts, he is likely poking fun more at himself than at you. :)
Thanks, Andy, I'm so misunderstood. ::)

-Boofer-

Thanks for the clarification..no harm, no foul!!
Title: Re: Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!
Post by: GortKlaatu on November 19, 2017, 06:23:22 PM
Quote from: retiredtrucker on September 28, 2017, 11:10:00 PM
Mucho gusto Doug
I like you am a newb in this crazy hobby. I have been buying my cultures from the UK. Seems that no one in the USA or Canada wants to ship down here unless you put up your first born for collateral. So I have found Goat Nutrition Ltd. Bruce Dolby gets my cultures to me in about 7 or 8 days, most stuff out of North America is 2 to 3 weeks unless it comes by DHL or UPS both of which are very dear. Here in Costa Rica aged cheese is very expensive,I'm talking at least 15.00 US dollars a pound so I've been buying my Mesophillic cultures from Bruce and am very happy with the quality as my cheeses are a big hit.
As for a cheese log I use Curd Nerds cheese log ,no place for Ph reading but can write it in on the side.
I sure pity you up there having such a hard time finding fresh raw milk, I get mine from my neighbors and its still warm when I get it home,my biggest problem is cutting the liquid rennet back enough to get a 12 minute mas o menos flocctuation time.
Great talking with you hope we can talk again and good luck.
Hasta Luego


My best option (to avoid the high cost and potential issues with customs in CR) has been that I order cultures, etc from the typical places like New England Cheesemaking etc, have them delivered to someone in the States that I know that is coming down for a visit or a CR neighbor that is going back for a visit and have them "mule" them back down for me.  Since they keep so long in the freezer, it's fairly easy to coordinate trips and keeping cultures on hand.
There are plenty of folks in PZ that go back and forth that could help that way.