Hello,
I'm curious about the material used in long aged cheeses that I find on the market. It has a half rubber - half paper feel to it. Does anyone know if this material is available to the public? Anyone know where I can get it? I see it on giant wheels of Parmesan and Aged Gouda - even Manchego.
Thanks!
Sam
Like a cheese coating?
I don't know if this is what you are asking about. I have had good success with cream coating (https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-waxes-coatings/white-coating-for-cheese-making.html) some of my semi-hard cheeses like this Tomme (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14661.msg113571.html#msg113571).
-Boofer-
Quote from: AnnDee on October 30, 2017, 04:31:15 PM
Like a cheese coating?
I'm not sure what it is Ann
Quote from: Boofer on October 31, 2017, 02:22:36 PM
I don't know if this is what you are asking about. I have had good success with cream coating (https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com) some of my semi-hard cheeses like this Tomme (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14661.msg113571.html#msg113571).
Boofer, that may actually be what I'm looking for. I wonder if commercial cheesemakers use it with a label over it.
It is Plasticoat
https://www.in2food.nl/home-en/cheese-coating/ (https://www.in2food.nl/home-en/cheese-coating/)
Amazing! You found it. Thanks O0
Have you ever used it?
No, not yet. I am contacting them to try on some on my cheese.
Is it a liquid \ paste like cream coating?
Thanks
John
I'm not sure since I've never used it but it looks like Ann may find out.
Sam
Hello Sam,
The coating that you are referring to is Kaas (Cheese) coating. They might call it plasticoat in the US. The main ingredient is PVA or PolyVinylAcetate. It's a synthetic polymer. It is widely used in a lot of things like the white wood-glue, chewing gum, wallpaper glue and so on.
PVA mixed with water forms an aqueous emulsion which remains semi permeable after drying. So, it will allow moist to leave (or enter) the cheese. The cheese can still 'breathe', but will keep more moist in the cheese than usual with a natural rind. The evaporation process is slowed down.
Some variants will have a small dose of Natamycin included. It's an antifungal agent, which is produced by a bacterium called 'Streptomyces Natalensis' that was discovered in Natal, South Africa. It kills fungi by stopping the carrier proteins by binding 'Ergosterol' (Provitamin D2) in the celmembrane. That means the fungi will die from starvation. There is plenty information on internet available if you are interested in the matter.
Natamycin is allowed for use in food, however, the rind and the first few mm under the rind might contain a little bit Natamycin. Therefore, we always cut of the rind with a cheese slicer. Further Natamycin will slow down fungal growth but the cheese can still be attacked. Personally I do not use it.
Cheesecoating is in use for about 50 years in the Netherlands to coat semi hard and hard cheese. As you might know Goudse and Edammer cheese are traditionally made with a natural (clean) rind. For protection on transport and a more appealing appearance at the market, they used different materials to coat cheeses, like linseed oil, sheep fat, lard or paraffin in the older days. Wax was (and is) never used on Goudse and Edammer, and the same has to be mentioned for vacuum bagging.
(The big cheese factories that supply supermarkets will let their cheeses ripen the old way, (coat them with cheese coating) and after cutting they will vacuum bag or use a packaging under protective atmosphere to prevent spoilage in the one or two weeks that are needed to sell the cheeses. One could say that this kind of cheese is considered second grade.)
Before applying cheese coating, after brining, you have to give the cheese a chance to dry. That could take several days. If the cheese feels dry to the hand you can start with the first layer of coating. The best tool for applying is a sponge. A paintbrush will guarantee uneven and thick layers that need days to dry, so better avoid this. The secret of good layers is very simple: coat thin. It is much better to coat several thin layers than one thick layer.
If you are finished with coating you can preserve the sponge from drying out by packing it in a plastic bag.
The first coating should have extra attention. Be sure to cover the whole surface including small needle point holes. The first layer can take a little extra time to dry. Several hours. After the first layer bring on one or two extra layers. Those layers will dry very quickly. It will be a matter of minutes.
After several weeks, the coating can degrade a little, getting less shiny or even matt. It will lose partly the protective characteristics and need to be renewed by a new thin layer.
You can repeat this process for as long as you want.
The first thin layers will allow to get a noticeable amount of moist evaporating out of the cheese. As it grows older the extra layers that you add will thicken the total layer, slowing down the evaporation process. No problem because an older cheese uses to lose less moist. This way you can get an Goudse cheese 2 or 3 years old and still have the possibility to shave thin slices with a cheese slicer.
What more is there to tell. Ah, you can buy the stuff here on every street corner. It is available in yellow, red, black, transparent and several other colors. After the first few layers one can stick a label on the cheese and coat that with the transparent version. Even with the 'normal' yellow coating the labels will stay visible, but maybe some colors of the label will change a little. Label sticking is done mostly just before selling the cheese, so that makes just one layer of transparent coating more than enough.
I am quite sure that you can find and buy this coating on internet. Success with the first try and let me know if there are any issues.
Jeroen
Thank you very much Jeroen! I use this coating regularly but didn't realize with proper technique that a semi or hard cheese could age for 2 to 3 years without the need for bagging. Currently, I apply 3 coats and then bag after about a month. Then I remove from bag about one month before consuming.
Now I think I will unbag some of my cheeses and start a routine of recoating periodically.
Have a cheese on me!!
Thank you as well Jeroen for the extremely informative response! I wish we had more answers from you :)
Duntov: What company do you purchase this product from if I may ask?
Quote from: AeonSam on December 28, 2017, 08:01:15 PM
Duntov: What company do you purchase this product from if I may ask?
I get mine here: https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-waxes-coatings.html
They buy in bulk and repact in plastic mini buckets. I don't know who the source mfgr is however.
John & Sam, Welcome and thanks very much for the virtual cheeses! (i had to check to see what they are)
You can age cheeses as long as you want with cheese coating. The oldest one i tasted was around 8 years.
The yoghurt company from the link you posted is probably ordering the coating from the Netherlands. They produce Plasticoat and a few other brands here large scale. If you buy 1 kG here, you would pay around € 7,95 including VAT in a normal shop.
John, i think you will notice quite a difference between ripening vacuum bagged or with coating. The tast is different.
Some local cheese factories did experiments with ripening cheese that was vacuum bagged. That would be the standard supermarket Goudse cheese. After a few years trying and changing recipes they stopped it. Nowadays they ripen the cheese in coating, and just before shipment they are vacuum bagged or put in a protective atmosphere package.
A few more points to keep in mind:
Like stated before, a sponge is the best tool for applying the coating. If wrapped in plastic you can keep this sponge wet, to prevent drying out for a few days.
(I buy the small sponges that are meant for cleaning pots and pans. They come in packages of 10 or so, cost nothing, are not to big, and i just dispose them after coating a few times)
The variant that is offered on the yoghurt site contains natamicin. It can get into the rind and in the first mm under that *. Keep that in mind because the natamycin amount in this thin layer can overstep the amount that is considered safe for consumption. If you don't want this, than consider coating with non natamicin coating for the first 3 layers, and step over to the natamycin coating afterwards. It does spare a lot of work (Fungi wise) but after the first few layers when the coating is really dry the non natamycin type is doing equally well.
* Natamicin entering the rind is worse with soft and very moist cheese. If you are using a recipe for young Gouda, (this type has to be eaten before 8 months) , the cheese will be more moist than with the recipe for old Gouda and more natamycin will enter the cheese.
Your coated cheese will be still vulnerable in the beginning for some bacteria, like B. Linens even if they are coated. Sometimes a wild Linens variant will infect your cheese before you have the chance to coat it. The same thing is true for fungi. You have to dry the cheese well before coating. Doing that in a room with a lower humidity is advisable.
Don't stick the sponge in the pot with coating. It can be infected by microorganisms. I take out the amount that i think i need, and use it. If there are leftovers i dispose that. Don't put it back into the pot.
If you coat a cheese that is really still too moist, you will notice that the coating can be peeled off quite easy after some weeks. This is no problem. Just peel it of, dry the cheese and coat it again.
If a cheese is a little to moist or is infected with Linens than it can become wet and sticky. The rind will become wrinkly like a cheese that has a lot of Geotrichum. Don't worry about that. Just let it dry (including coating) under a lower humidity and they will dry up nicely.
For the number of coatings; you can coat as much you want. In the beginning it is good to let the cheese coating dry up nicely before you add many layers. I know professional cheesemakers that coat the cheeses every week or two weeks with a tiny amount of coating. Others do not coat more often than every two months. Both goes well.
[edit] If you discover any fungi attack on the cheese after its coated rub it off with a dry towel or paper. Do not use the wet cleaning methode with brine or whatever.
Succes!, and please let me know how the results are.
Jeroen
(This was a long post again. I do try to keep my answers as short as possible, but it is hard for me)
I get mine here: https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-waxes-coatings.html
They buy in bulk and repact in plastic mini buckets. I don't know who the source mfgr is however.
[/quote]
Thanks John. I appreciate it.
Jeroen, would you post the link to the place you buy yours from? I'd like to take a look at it. Thank you again for the wealth of information.
Sam
Ofcourse.
There are plenty, but here are two to start with.
1-
https://www.unibrew-nederland.nl/ambachtelijk/kaas-maken/kaascoating-en-ander-hulpstoffen.html?limit=all// (https://www.unibrew-nederland.nl/ambachtelijk/kaas-maken/kaascoating-en-ander-hulpstoffen.html?limit=all//)
2-
https://www.brouwmarkt.nl/producten/zelf-zuivel-maken/kaasmaken/kaascoating.html (https://www.brouwmarkt.nl/producten/zelf-zuivel-maken/kaasmaken/kaascoating.html)
The lowest price for a kilo is € 5,75 i noticed. ( $ 6,90) Thats the first one. Prices are including 21% VAT. This shop is close to where i live. Around a half hour driving.
I suppose buying it in the Netherlands would be to expensive for small amounts due to the costs of shipment. That only would be interesting with bigger amounts and skipping VAT.
You could inform by the producer of Plasticoat:
3-
https://www.in2food.nl/products/cheese-coating// (https://www.in2food.nl/products/cheese-coating//)
If you need whatever information let me know. I can just call them.
Jeroen
Hi Jeroen,
Great write-up. Thanks for sharing.
All the best
L
Hi Jeroen,
thank you for all the info, it looks really interesting. How far do you find 1 kg will go? I'm typically making 3kg sized Goudas say 20cm in diameter, and waxing them, and I'd really like to try this.
I noticed the coloured ones all seem to contain the natamycin, so do you start with a transparent coating for 2-3 layers and then move to coloured?
Also, in some commercial Goudas I've bought I've noticed what looks like a thin mesh embedded in the coating. Do you know if this is how they do this, by using this coating on a bandage?
Mike
Hi L,
Thanks, you are welcome.
Off topic: Nice equipment on your site. The press you make look likes a 100 year old wooden press i use.
The difference is in the arms. My press has longer arms with sliding weights.
Jeroen
edit: I discovered how to add photo's.
Hi Mike,
You're welcome.
It depends of course on the amount and size of cheeses and the layer thickness. :)
Normally the first few layers take a little more coating. The sponge also takes up a lot of coating. When the first layers are completely dry you can coat all the cheeses you have just with a sponge wetted once or twice with a little coating. The layers should be really thin.
With a kilo container you should be fine for months.
- I assume that you buy coating in the UK. You can get all types with and without natamicin here. I use the yellow type without normally. Sometimes red for Edammer cheese. But sure, you can use the transparant version for the first layers. Transparant coating might dry a little bit slower than the coloured versions.
-Goudse cheese is not bandaged. What you see is the imprint from the mold or cheese cloth shining through the coating. Especially with microperforated molds there is a very clear imprint.
The photo's are from Goudse cheese just after unmolding and the other one just after brining. You can see the imprint i mean.
Jeroen
Quote from: Jeroen B on January 04, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
Goudse cheese is not bandaged. What you see is the imprint from the mold or cheese cloth shining through the coating. Especially with microperforated molds there is a very clear imprint.
Of course! This has been bugging me for months! ;D
I've so far found this shop in the UK which is not my usual supplier, but they only seem to have the ones with natamicin in:
http://www.gnltd.co.uk/goat-nutrition/cheese-making-products/cheese-making-waxes-coatings.html (http://www.gnltd.co.uk/goat-nutrition/cheese-making-products/cheese-making-waxes-coatings.html)
I'm going to give them a call, otherwise, I'll get in touch with the shops you posted links to, maybe they will consider shipping across the North Sea!
That would be no problem i guess. You might want to drop them a mail. If not, let me know. I can buy some and send it over. Transport costs in Europe should be quite reasonable and coating here is a lot cheaper than in the UK.
Jeroen
About a month ago I posted a question asking if cheese sealant (cream) might be used as a way to hold rosemary. I did not get a reply, assuming that no one had tried it. Anyway, I made 4 goat Alpine cheeses and over the last 6 weeks, coated them at different stages. For the coating i use a folded up piece of paper towel (I know, not very elegant.) So far I have used only one coat on two of them, and a touch up coat on the other two where just a tiny spot of mold showed up. All look good, and the process was remarkably easy. Why only one coat? this material is supposed to breathe, so I figure i will keep it as thin as possible and add material only when needed.
On one cheese i place a bunch of rosemary (one side at a time) and then used the paper towel to dab/dapple with the cream. Let it dry (dries surprisingly fast) turn over and repeat. I turn them all every couple of days and am very happy with how well the rosemary is staying on. Here is what it looks like after just one (sort of thick) coat.
Nice pic!
Are you using Cream Coating or Plasticoat like Jeroen?
I know what you mean about your previous post. I'd say that I get a response to my posts 40% of the time. :-\
Hi AeonSam,
I think the term "cream" is a kind of generic expression, though putting on the white coating looks like cream and then dries clear. Anyway, the brand I am using is Paracoat. It is described by the manufacture here: https://www.paramelt.com/paracoat.aspx (https://www.paramelt.com/paracoat.aspx)
Hi Walt,
Nice camo cheese. This is the Plasticoat type of coating. Wondering if you are going to taste the Rosemary.
Yes you can use cheese coating to stick whatever you want on the cheese. It is almost the same stuff as the white carpenter glue and the latex paint you use on the walls. (Ok, not completely the same)
No problem to bring on more than one layer. The layer will stay permeable. With many layers the moist transport is slowed down, but not stopped.
Jeroen
Quote from: Jeroen B on January 04, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
I can buy some and send it over. Transport costs in Europe should be quite reasonable and coating here is a lot cheaper than in the UK.
Thanks for the offer Jeroen, that was very kind. As it happens, the UK supplier has the transparent in stock without the natamycin so I've just placed an order!
Mike,
Well done. You do not want this natamycin in your cheese.
Succes!
Jeroen
Thanks Jeroen.
I have little expectation that the rosemary will migrate into the cheese, and if at all not very far. That said, it looks beautiful, and even smelling the cheese now, the earthy goat mixed with the rosemary is a treat while i wait out (painfully) the outcome.
Quote from: waltweissman on January 05, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
I think the term "cream" is a kind of generic expression, though putting on the white coating looks like cream and then dries clear. Anyway, the brand I am using is Paracoat. It is described by the manufacture here: https://www.paramelt.com/paracoat.aspx (https://www.paramelt.com/paracoat.aspx)
I see. Boofer provided a link in the beginning to cream coat so I thought that plasticoat was different.
Thanks everyone.
Sam