Hi all,
Great forum!
I'm a newbie, and have only been making cheese since January 2018. I live in Madison WI, USA, and am interested in just getting better at making tasty cheese. Small batches (1-2 gal), strictly a hobbyist. My cheese cave is the red-wine section of a small wine fridge (~54˚F, humidity depends on how much water I put on the paper towels lining each ripening box.). Ripening boxes are tupperware containers with a) damp paper towel on bottom, b) plastic soda straws as spacers above the paper towel and c) plastic cheese mat with cheese on top. Sometimes I layer multiple cheeses (e.g., the Camembert) on top of each other with straw spacers and mats in between. Seems to work ok. Humidity is not well-controlled or measured. pH is never measured during the make.
Here are some pix of some of my efforts to date (first time posting, so hope the pix show up):
1) Four recent cheeses (left to right) a) Leiden, b) Simple Blue, c) Shitake mushroom-infused camembert, c) Gruyere
2) Close up of Leiden and Simple Blue
3) Shitake-infused Camembert
4) Gruyere
Info & Questions:
1) Leiden - Gouda with cumin seeds, following this recipe from Gavin Webber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAzG1R-MU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAzG1R-MU0)
This came out nicely when cracked open after about 2 months (I couldn't hold off any longer). Nice texture & color. I got specifically complimented on this one by a guest at a party where I served all four.
2) Simple Blue, again following Gavin's recipe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C8taIodYo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C8taIodYo)
Tasted good, although I opened it quite young (~6 weeks). Probably under-salted. Texture is soft/crumbly rather than firm/creamy which I would prefer. Suggestions?
3) Shitake-infused Camembert, based on the recipe here: https://www.acanadianfoodie.com/2013/07/20/homemade-camembert-porcini-infused/ (https://www.acanadianfoodie.com/2013/07/20/homemade-camembert-porcini-infused/)
This tasted quite nice at 4 weeks, and the picture is from a second wheel opened at 6 weeks. Almost no difference in taste or texture with additional aging. The mushroom flavor came through without being overpowering. However, this cheese is also soft/crumbly rather than being creamy like one wants a cam to be (see pix in the blog post above). Suggestions?
4) Gruyere - attempt at a washed rind, again following Gavin here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi2y4Ymrd5A. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi2y4Ymrd5A.)
The pix show that the texture and color are nice, imho. But the rind and eventual flavor were a disaster. I tried to create a washed rind (no added B. linens, just washing with my hands and either brine or red wine). First it was too slimy, then I tried to dry the rind and start over. I finally gave up on washing and just decided to see how it turned out. The final still has a very slimy surface, not a hard rind. And it reeks of B. linens (sweat socks) and tastes like it too, throughout, not just near the surface. Almost like a mild Limburger. This is going in the trash soon, unless someone has a good idea of what to do with a seriously funky smelling and tasting cheese. Any suggestions on washing to produce a rind would be welcome. I think I'll try this again but skip the washing entirely and either wax it or just see what happens naturally in the cave.
I've also made some chevre and squeaky cheese curds (both came out great) and a farmhouse cheddar with peppercorns and a ricotta salata (both still aging, now at ~5 months). All based on Gavin's videos.
Cheers,
Matt
Hi Mathew. Welcome to the forum. Have your first cheese for a nice selection of first cheeses. (Awarding cheeses is how forum members acknowledge success and effort.)
Some thoughts on your cheeses:
1. The Leiden: Congratulations on a good outcome.
2. The blue: Promising, but this shows the value of being patient and waiting for the cheese to do its stuff. This will probably improve and the blue should develop.
3. Camembert: If there is no sign of going gooey under the rind after 6 weeks, I suspect that it is not going to. It could be that there was not enough acid development before you salted it. It is hard to know without seeing the details of the make.
4. Gruyere: Looks and sounds good if you like smellies (I do). If you search the forum you will find an abundance of information about washing rinds. At this stage you could try scrubbing the rind under running water to get rid of the Linens and then letting it dry. B linens will often show up on a cheese in humid conditions, even if you didn't add it. If you don't like BL, it might be best to avoid washed rinds (or give it away to those who do.)
Good luck with your future cheesy adventures.
Hey there--Bienvenidos desde Costa Rica.
Don't have time to study your post right now, but those cheeses look very good. Just wanted to say Welcome for now.
Hi Raw Prawn and Gort (Barada Nikto!),
Thanks for your warm welcome, the cheese, and your comments. So far, I have one post and one cheese, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
I may post the full makes of my blue and camembert, but really I followed the directions in the above-posted recipes as closely as possible. I confess, I am not perfect about following timings or temperatures. But I try.
Oddly, both the blue and camembert have almost exactly the same soft/crumbly texture, but they taste different. They were (imho) both under-salted, and in both cases the salt was applied to the surface rather than being milled into the cheese before draining (according to the recipes). They were both drained and formed similarly in camembert molds, and treated similarly during aging in the cave. So I guess I'm not surprised that they both have the same texture because they were mechanically treated almost identically. According to their respective recipes. Both were tasty cheeses, but neither came out with the textures (different textures) as the textbook examples of what they were supposed to be. But they both *taste* good, one tastes blue and the other tastes like a cam or brie with mushroom hints. So, I consider them both successes for my first stab. But I know I can do better in the future.
Anyway, thanks and cheers,
Matt
I have just looked at the Camembert recipe. There are a few things which I do differently:
- I have never used mushrooms.
- I always add the PC to the milk at the start, with the starter culture - it saves mucking around with spraying
- I cut the curds to about 25mm. The larger curds will retain more moisture.
- The time for draining, between moulding and salting, for me is around 30 hours. This is probably the critical one as short draining times will mean less acid development and a cheese which will never go runny. This has happened to me.
- I salt at a rate of about 1/3 tsp of salt per cheese per side. (Each cheese is around 250g, from 1 1/2 litres of milk)
I hope some of that helps.
Hey Matthew, I'm in WI too and I am in the process, right at the end of getting white mold on my camembert, so that I can wrap and refrigerate it. I'm also a fan of Gavin Webber's. His videos are my inspiration.
It looks like your swiss type cheese turned out beautifully.
You were talking a bit about salt. I think of salt as a balancing of flavor, acid balanced with salt. So a more acid cheese requires more salt and a less acid cheese requires less salt. It's like cooking.
Hey Matt...kudos for the Barada Nikto, too.
Quote from: Raw Prawn on May 30, 2018, 08:03:32 AM
I have just looked at the Camembert recipe. There are a few things which I do differently:
- I have never used mushrooms.
- I always add the PC to the milk at the start, with the starter culture - it saves mucking around with spraying
- I cut the curds to about 25mm. The larger curds will retain more moisture.
- The time for draining, between moulding and salting, for me is around 30 hours. This is probably the critical one as short draining times will mean less acid development and a cheese which will never go runny. This has happened to me.
- I salt at a rate of about 1/3 tsp of salt per cheese per side. (Each cheese is around 250g, from 1 1/2 litres of milk)
I hope some of that helps.
This was really helpful, Prawn.
I'm gonna try another one this weekend (truffle-infused camembert - I love the mushroomy taste). This time I'll drain for much longer (e.g. 30 hrs) before salting. It hadn't occurred to me that the time before salting would matter, but thanks to you I now understand that the pre-salting time allows for the stuff to do its stuff (acidification etc) and the salting doesn't just add flavor but changes the biology of the cheese. Thanks!
Matt
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Quote from: feather on May 30, 2018, 12:43:22 PM
Hey Matthew, I'm in WI too and I am in the process, right at the end of getting white mold on my camembert, so that I can wrap and refrigerate it. I'm also a fan of Gavin Webber's. His videos are my inspiration.
It looks like your swiss type cheese turned out beautifully.
You were talking a bit about salt. I think of salt as a balancing of flavor, acid balanced with salt. So a more acid cheese requires more salt and a less acid cheese requires less salt. It's like cooking.
Feather, funny ain't it that we're both in Wisconsin (cheese country) and both struggling with newbie cheesemaking. You would think that in Wisconsin we would have lots of mentors. But all of my mentors are online, and the main one is far away as Australia. I find this place to be a good resource, near where I live: https://www.getculture.com/home.php (https://www.getculture.com/home.php)
The guy behind the counter (Ethan) is really helpful and friendly. Highly recommended, if you're in the area.
Matt
Quote from: GortKlaatu on May 29, 2018, 10:27:13 PM
Hey there--Bienvenidos desde Costa Rica.
Don't have time to study your post right now, but those cheeses look very good. Just wanted to say Welcome for now.
Gort, I have visited Costa Rica a long time ago (1990 or so). Truly amazing place. Most stunningly beautiful beach that I have ever seen (Playa Manuel Antonio). I ate farmer's cheese from a market somewhere in the mountains, during a drive up to Vulcan Poas. Couldn't see anything because the fog/mist was so thick in the cloud forest, but the cheese was delicious!
Matt
Quote from: mathewjones on May 31, 2018, 07:22:23 AM
Feather, funny ain't it that we're both in Wisconsin (cheese country) and both struggling with newbie cheesemaking. You would think that in Wisconsin we would have lots of mentors. But all of my mentors are online, and the main one is far away as Australia. I find this place to be a good resource, near where I live: https://www.getculture.com/home.php (https://www.getculture.com/home.php)
The guy behind the counter (Ethan) is really helpful and friendly. Highly recommended, if you're in the area.
Matt
I did notice that website (getculture) in the past few months, and I was thinking of getting some more cultures. It's about 60 miles from me. My husband was saying he might go to madison about a car and I told him, he must stop at that store and so thank you for telling me about Ethan. I may have to call Ethan and give him my detailed order before my husband gets there.
It seems like this forum is really slow (people writing and responding) and I was trying to figure out why it was so slow. Let's say you make some cheddar, you make it and you post about it, you age it, then you cut it open, it's a year later when a person posts about it. That takes a year or more. That seems to be why it is so slow. :D
Mathew, sorry I misspelled your name previously. ::) I did talk with Ethan, and he is super duper helpful about cheese cultures. I so appreciate the recommendation from you about the website/store. Thank you!
Hi Matt,
Nice to see another cheese maker on the site. Looks like you are doing a good job at your makes. Good luck on your future makes.
Quote from: feather on May 31, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
Mathew, sorry I misspelled your name previously. ::) I did talk with Ethan, and he is super duper helpful about cheese cultures. I so appreciate the recommendation from you about the website/store. Thank you!
Feather,
Cool that you talked with Ethan at getculture. I've only been there twice, but he's really enthusiastic and helpful. I told him about my disastrous washed rind issue with the Gruyere and he emailed me later with a bunch of instructions that he looked up online. Customer service. Check!
Your cheeses look groovy. I would give you a "cheese", but I can't figure out how to do that. Perhaps one needs to have a certain number of "cheeses" themself before the forum allows one to bestow a "cheese" on another? Anyway, yours look delicious.
Regarding how slow it is here on this forum, I don't know. I posted my first post and got responses nearly the next day. But I posted about "quick" cheeses and included pix (i.e., after I cracked them), not about my cheeses in progress (e.g. my cheddar. etc) If I had started off with my cheddar (still aging), I assume that nobody would care to respond until I showed them the finished product.
Having said that, here's a pic of a cheddar/blue in progress (from Gavin Webber's recipe) that was *literally* entirely orange colored (I added annatto as coloring during the make) this morning when I left for work, but is now covered with *blue* when I came home from work this evening. Ten hours to turn from total orange to covered in blue! Things happen fast. Cheese biology is apparently something quite subtle and volatile, I'm learning.
It's blue! What shall I do?
{I actually know what I shall do - I'll probably pierce it all over tomorrow, then put it in the cave and let it fester for another several weeks, turning weekly}
Anyone with any suggestions, I'm all ears.
Cheers,
Matt
Quote from: feather on May 31, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
Mathew, sorry I misspelled your name previously. ::) I did talk with Ethan, and he is super duper helpful about cheese cultures. I so appreciate the recommendation from you about the website/store. Thank you!
Ok, I think I figured out the "give cheese" ("thumbs up") thing now, and I gave you one for your yummy looking cam/brie.
Quote from: mathewjones on June 02, 2018, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: feather on May 31, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
Mathew, sorry I misspelled your name previously. ::) I did talk with Ethan, and he is super duper helpful about cheese cultures. I so appreciate the recommendation from you about the website/store. Thank you!
Feather,
Cool that you talked with Ethan at getculture. I've only been there twice, but he's really enthusiastic and helpful. I told him about my disastrous washed rind issue with the Gruyere and he emailed me later with a bunch of instructions that he looked up online. Customer service. Check!
Your cheeses look groovy. I would give you a "cheese", but I can't figure out how to do that. Perhaps one needs to have a certain number of "cheeses" themself before the forum allows one to bestow a "cheese" on another? Anyway, yours look delicious.
Regarding how slow it is here on this forum, I don't know. I posted my first post and got responses nearly the next day. But I posted about "quick" cheeses and included pix (i.e., after I cracked them), not about my cheeses in progress (e.g. my cheddar. etc) If I had started off with my cheddar (still aging), I assume that nobody would care to respond until I showed them the finished product.
Having said that, here's a pic of a cheddar/blue in progress (from Gavin Webber's recipe) that was *literally* entirely orange colored (I added annatto as coloring during the make) this morning when I left for work, but is now covered with *blue* when I came home from work this evening. Ten hours to turn from total orange to covered in blue! Things happen fast. Cheese biology is apparently something quite subtle and volatile, I'm learning.
It's blue! What shall I do?
{I actually know what I shall do - I'll probably pierce it all over tomorrow, then put it in the cave and let it fester for another several weeks, turning weekly}
Anyone with any suggestions, I'm all ears.
Cheers,
Matt
To be clear:
- This is supposed to be a blue/cheddar (maybe like a Shropshire Blue or something like that)
- This cheese is supposed to turn blue (has P. Roqueforti), eventually, so the blue is a good thing.
- This has been pressed quite hard overnight (e.g., 20 Lbs - my press is not well-calibrated, and not well-balanced, obviously judging by the lopsided shape, but that is incidental, n'est ce pas?) , and then was removed from the press and has been drying at room temp (actually inside a plastic box, not on a shelf) for about 4 days. I made it on Mon May 28, I took it out of the mold and set it out to dry on Tues May 29. This morning at 10 am (Jun 1) it was completely orange (because of annatto coloring in the make) and tonight at 9 pm it was completely covered in blue mould.
I'm stunned at how quickly this blue-ing happened. I need to watch my cheese more carefully, I guess!
But this IS what I wanted to happen. It's a semi-hard cheddar blue, exactly as desired.
But now I need to nurse it and age it to get the right flavor.
So, friends, PLEASE give me suggestions to help me to NOT F*ck it up!!
I'm thinking just put it in the cave (wine fridge), in a plastic box, with some moist paper towels and plastic spacers, like I've done with my other ones. This method has worked OK for the others (except for the Gruyere washed-rind, which I thought was a disaster but some other folks thought looked yummy). Anyway, is this plan ok?
Thanks,
Matt
Cheers,
Matt
Thanks for the cheese Mathew.
Sometimes they go lopsided in the press, no worries, it will still be good cheese.
I'd pierce it top/bottom/sides to let air in, as blue needs air. Put it in the cheese fridge. Turn it over every few days to few weeks. If the blue gets too thick on the outside you can wipe it down with brine/vinegar/cacl2 solution. In a ripening box, not too wet, not dry. Sounds like a very good plan.
This is normal for large areas to turn blue quite quickly , after all you did inoculate it with blue....
Just keep following the recipe for how to age it , and keep posting pics with observations.
Hi everyone! My name is Steve and my lovely wife and I live on Gabriola Island off the coast of Vancouver Island in beautiful British Columbia Canada.
We've just started making cheese recently - the easy ones such as Mozzarella, buratta and chèvre, all of which turned out very well indeed!
We decided to get into the hard cheeses and took s quick course on making Havarti. It's turning out well so far - just drying prior to us waxing then aging the cheese. We are very fortunate in having access to milk from a Swiss cow.
Here is a photo of the havarti drying