Hey everyone, trying my hand at my first emmentaler today. I will post details later but am in the middle of the make right now and have a quick question in case anyone happens to be on the forum. My curds feel ready to drain but the ph is still in the low 6.6s...my target is 6.4. Do I drain now and keep moving forward or let the curds settle and keep the temp up until the ph drops, not stirring to avoid further curd drying?
Oops, wasn't on the forum yesterday, so I'm guessing a little too late to answer. :)
What did you decide to do? Keep good notes, and make adjustments as needed the next time ...
Alright, here is the full make info...the recipe is almost identical to Caldwell's with a couple small tweaks
Used four gallons of raw cow milk
Before starting I skimmed a little under a quarter cup of cream off of each half gallon jar of milk. Imprecise I know, but I saw a lot of people saying emmentaler is full fat and others saying it is partially skimmed, and 4 gallons is really pushing my equipment size wise anyways, so I figured I'd just meet in the middle and take a bit off the top to see what happens.
Starting milk PH was 6.63
I usually make 3 gallon batches at most due to equipment restraints, so this 4 gallon make was pushing it. The milk level in the vat was significantly higher than the water level in the water bath around it (I do it in my kitchen sink), which is a no-no, but I didn't notice any big temperature issues so I'm hoping it is ok.
I brought the milk up to 91 degrees, then added 1/2 tsp Thermo B, a skewer tip of Thermo C, and 1/16 tsp P. Shermanii. I let the culture hydrate for 4 minutes then I whisked it in for 4 minutes.
Added 3/4 tsp rennet and whisked for 1 min. I tested PH and it was already down to 6.4, which was shocking and concerning because I know that the whey is supposed to be drained around 6.3 to 6.4...later I decided that this must have been a misreading by the PH meter because after cutting the curds it was back up to 6.60 and followed a pretty normal acidification curve from there on out.
Clean break occurred at 38 minutes. I unsuccessfully tried to cut the curds into small 1/8 in cubes, and I ended up just using a whisk eventually to get them all to about the same size. Curd size consistency ended up being pretty solid on this batch.
Right after cutting I added a kettle full (10-12% of the milk volume) of 91 degree water. Alp mentioned on the forum that this step is sometimes used to slow down acidification and to produce a sweeter cheese. No whey is removed, just water added. At this point I still thought the PH was already at 6.4 and dropping, so I added the water. Now I am not sure if it was necessary, but I don't think it hurt anything.
After stirring and heating for 40 min the temp was up to 110 and the ph was 6.6 still.
After an hour temp was 116 and ph was 6.63
after an hour 20 minutes the temp was 118 and the ph was 6.63...
At this point the curds felt adequately dry and springy, and I was worried about drying them out further, but also wanted to the PH to drop to 6.3-6.4 before draining...this is when I made the first post in this thread! I ended up splitting the difference...I let the curds settle without stirring them and kept the whey warm and decided to wait. After a total of 2 and a half hours after cutting the ph got down to 6.50, which I figured was close enough and I drained the whey.
I molded the curds (total curd mass was 4.5 lbs), pressed for 15 minutes with 4 lbs pressure, 30 minutes with 10 lbs pressure, an hour with 25 lbs pressure, and then I removed the cheese cloth and placed back in the mold. Ultimately the cheese was pressed for 23 hours total, max weight of 40 lbs...the Ph at brining was in the high 5.4s, which is on the high end of the acceptable range but I was ready to move on haha. The rind is not as closed as I would like, but it is pretty good.
I just placed it in saturated brine, and I plan on doing that for 4 hours, flipping, then 4 more hours. Caldwell suggests brining for 2.5 hours per pound, but that seemed a bit longer than other recipes I saw on here, and I know p shermanii is salt sensitive, so I am just doing a little under 2 hours per pound...hopefully that is enough!
I plan on washing the rind with a blush wine brine. The bottle was given to me as a gift and I don't love super sweet, fruity wines so this seemed like a good use for it :)
Here is the wheel out of the brine....not the typical disc shape for this sort of cheese, this was the only mold big enough for this make I had on hand. Hopefully the cylindrical shape doesn't interfere with bubble formation too much!
Hi Cheesehead,
I'm surprised it took so long for your curds to acidify - I usually have the opposite problem. I wonder if Thermo B uses a slower acting ST - something like Danisco's TA5X series - I've long wanted to try that to see if I could slow things down a bit.
Sounds like you hit your pH targets well. You're right, that form factor may alter the formation of bubbles in the warm phase - but taste should still be good.
In the picture it looks like the rind is not quite smooth - maybe just an artifact in the picture?
There was a time when I would have been surprised that acidification took a long time, but I'm no longer surprised by it haha. The milk from my milk source just buffers a lot, especially the last few months being late lactation milk...all of my cheeses lately have been taking a long time. Also, the recipe I used said that it will probably need to be in the mold for 12-24 hours, so 23 hours seems about right for my milk.
The rind does have a couple small pockmarks...mostly smooth though. My washed rinds have been working out really well for me lately so I think that will protect against any possible mold intrusions.
As always in cheesemaking there were a few minor mishaps and curveballs, but all in all this make went pretty smoothly. Can't wait to taste it in 4 months!
Looking forward to the taste report!
After 2 weeks in the cave of being brushed with brine daily, it is time for the warm stage. The yellow coloring on the side of the cheese isn't linens, it is just where the rind is drying and yellowing. There are linens though, as the cheese has a somewhat thin but definitely present schmier going on, it is just clear colored at the moment. I will continue brushing it with brine, but only 3 days a week, during the warm stage to hopefully beef up the schmier.
Here's to swelling!
Update after 1 week in the warm room...
It is winter here and I was initially concerned about the room temp being high enough, so I put the cheese near the wall heating unit for the first 24 hours, which had the temp in the container just above 80. After a day there was an absolute linens explosion! As I mentioned before, this cheese had linens but only a very thin layer. After one day in the warmth it had been completely bodyslammed by linens and was sitting in a small pool of goo, which was great. I felt that it was also getting a bit out of hand though, so I moved it to the other side of the room where the temp in the container has consistently been in the mid 70s all week. The heavy linens softened the rind significantly so the cheese mat ended up putting marks in the top and bottom, but I actually kind of like the cross hatched look of it :) as you can see in my previous photo (right before the warm room) the top and bottom of my cheese were a lot less dried out than the sides, and the extra linens have helped even out the rind immensely, even filling in a few of the pockmarks from where the pressing was imperfect. Yay linens! Looks like the sides have some wrinkles to them now as well, which is maybe geo? I don't know, as I'be never had geo before. Color of the cheese is now a light gold.
I don't have a separate humidity gauge for this container, but there has been consistent light condensation on the lid (but not enough to drip down onto anything), so I suppose that's a good sign.
No swelling yet I don't think (the sides are bulging a bit more but I think that's just due to the sofented rind letting the cheese bulge). I really don't know at what stage in the 3-5 week warm period the swelling is supposed to occur, but hopefully the window hasn't closed on it!
Looking great! I don't think you have passed the window on the swelling phase, but it can be fairly slow unless the temperature is higher. If you get impatient, move it over to the warmer side of the room again. Just be ready to keep knocking down the linens. :)
Thanks! It smells better than it looks.
I've seen some recipes suggest as many as 5-7 weeks in the warm stage, so I'm not discouraged by no swelling after 1 week
4 weeks in the warm phase have elapsed, and still no apparent swelling, so it is back to the cave!
This is my first emmentaler, but I did really try to consider the fact that salt and ph can really inhibit eye growth...i'm fairly sure I did everything correctly in those departments, so I'm trying to hypothesize what may have happened. Here are my ideas
-the rind softened a lot during the warm period...I know you want an elastic rind for eye formation, but maybe it was too soft and was not able to contain the gas? (I kind of doubt it as I feel the softness was largely just due to the thick linens layer)
-the changing temps messed it up somehow? It was all low 70s or more the whole time, but I have done further reading that suggests that high temperature variability can cause defects. There were 3, 2-3 day long periods where I moved the cheese next to the heater, probably making the temp in the mid to high 80s. Maybe this caused some issues?
-the cheese did swell, but only in 2 dimensions? This seems least likelyof all, but as you can see below, the cheese is much wider and shorter than it used to be. I attribute this to the softened rind allowing the cheese to spread out, but maybe the gas just expanded out and not up? Again, seems unlikely but who knows.
Another concern I have is that I read that very warm temps can cause some fat leaking? I didn't notice this but the linens schmier was so thick I wouldn't be surprised if a decent amount of fat was mixed in with it.
The good news is that it smells incredible! Strong nuttiness with some notes of deep red fruit. And now we wait until late May :)
Cheesehead, I had made an emmentaler in about the same time frame, and interestingly got about the same results - first time I *haven't* gotten some decent swelling, but this was also the first time I got a really good linens smear going; I also got the flatter and more spread out look instead. Mine spent the time on top of the fridge, which has in the past been a reliably warm spot. Admittedly, my PS is pretty old, but it has been stored in the freezer, and other cultures of equal age continue to work reliably.
So ... it will be interesting to see what both of ours look like when we open them!
Yeah, can't wait to see how yours turns out!
My p. Shermanii came from a brand new packet, so I don't think age of culture is a factor for mine
Alright, the time has come for me to open it after 4 months of aging. Well, technically 2 days from now is the 4 month mark, but I was really excited to open it and it's a Friday night, so what the heck :P
Overall I am very happy with this cheese. Only mechanical holes unfortunately, and I'm still not sure why this cheese flattened out so drastically, but overall I really like it! Very nutty, fruity aroma, sweet flavor, and great pliable, dense texture. The flavor is a bit milder than expected, but it is delicious I am proud to say :) moisture of the final product is about what I was shooting for.
Final weight for this cheese was 3.75 pounds.
AC4U!
And another c4u! Thanks for the followup!
I've been trying to post photos but am having some technical difficulties...hopefully I can soon!
Quote from: cheesehead94 on May 25, 2019, 09:11:08 PM
I've been trying to post photos but am having some technical difficulties...hopefully I can soon!
Difficulties getting the pictures uploaded, or difficulties with the results once they are uploaded?
Warning: lengthy treatise follows below. Feel free to treat as TL/DR! :)
There are a couple of common issues with uploading pictures to this and other forums. One is file size. This forum will actually accept a full-resolution, multi-megabyte picture, and will scale it on viewing, but that leads to a great deal of inefficiency, especially for anyone with slower internet - the full file has to upload and download, and then be scaled to a fraction of its full size to fit on the screen. Other forums I've seen will reject a file that is too large, and others will attempt to scale it, but do so badly. Generally I find a picture size of 1024 x 768 to be a good target.
The second issue is picture rotation. On any digital camera, when you take a picture, it is always stored physically in keeping with the physical characteristics of the device. To say that another way, when you rotate your camera or phone to take a picture, the pixels are stored based on the physical orientation of the image sensor, NOT on the intended orientation of the viewing. Thus, in terms of the actual storage of the image, it may be sideways or upside down to match how the camera or phone was held.
So why does the picture still show up correctly on your phone or camera or computer? Because in addition to the actual image, the device stores "metadata" that tells how the device was rotated when the picture was taken (as well as a bunch of other info - f-stop, flash settings, possibly gps location, optionally copyright info, etc.). When it is displayed, the image as physically stored is rotated as needed based on the metadata.
Unfortunately, most forums "strip out" the metadata when they upload a picture, probably because it could potentially contain personally identifiable data. Without that metadata, however, the software doesn't know to rotate images as needed, so it just shows the image as it is physically stored. Some forum software will attempt to physically rearrange the image before storing it and before discarding the metadata, but not all ... and most forum software seems to have trouble handlinge files from certain digital image formats (pictures taken on Apple devices seem to be the most problematic).
It is possible to scale and/or physically rotate an image before uploading it to a forum. Unfortunately, in general it is tedious and time consuming. You have to load the picture into gimp or photoshop or what-have-you photo editing software, tell it to strip the metadata (not all software lets you do that, or not easily), and scale the image to the desired size, then save it back, making sure not to overwrite your original in case you want to keep the full-resolution version for printing or personal use. And you have to do all of these multiple steps one picture at a time.
For this reason, a few years ago I finally wrote a little program for Linux & Windows (and theoretically Mac--the software is built on a multiplatform foundation--but I don't have a Mac and haven't compiled it on that platform). This program allows selecting any number of picture files (or dragging & dropping them), setting the target resolution and how to handle rotation (defaulting to automatically detecting the rotation), and how/where to store the results (in a new directory, or with a suffix added to distinguish from the originals, or if you really, truly want to, overwriting the originals). In just a few seconds it converts a whole list of pictures.
I have found that I use this program all the time, not because I upload pictures to forums all that often (though I do use it for that purpose when I upload cheese pictures!), but because I serve as the designated family-and-friend photographer - a long, long way from a professional, but I have a decent camera and set of lenses, so I wind up taking a lot of pictures of weddings and special events. The problem then is how to share these with the family or friends who might like to have copies. Full resolution pictures generally take anywhere from 4-8 megabytes of storage, and my email server limits me to sending no more than 15 megabytes or so at a time - generally no more than 2-3 full-resolution pictures. No problem if I only have half-a-dozen to share ... but if I have 25 or 50 or more (which can easily be the case, even after culling out the duplicates and less-than-ideal pictures), it is a pain to try to send them out.
With the program I wrote, however, it is simple. I already organize my pictures using a separate folder for each event, so I just select all the pictures in the folder and drop them into the program. It saves my preferred target resolution, compression quality, and rotation settings; I just edit the destination folder to something convenient and click "Apply." A few seconds later, 500 megabytes of pictures has been has been saved as 5 megabytes of 1024x768 sized pictures which I can send in a single email. For posting on Facebook etc., these can be used as-is. If anybody wants full-resolution versions for printing or whatnot, they can let me know which specific pictures to send them individually. Voila!