Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the "off the wall" press. I just picked up the plans at my local cheese shop and I think it will be alot easier than stacking all those weights on top and waiting for it to crash. Ginger
I built my own and so far, am happy with it. Its basically a lever, made of 2x4s mounted to my basement wall.
Here is a picture: (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,463.msg2261.html#msg2261)
and here. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,463.msg2549.html#msg2549)
Quote from: FRANCOIS on July 27, 2009, 04:22:14 AM
(http://galleries.shaffersmith.com/meadow/album1/images/Cheesemaking2_5.jpg)
here's my old one.
Old post; thinking of doing a bevy of beauforts and other alpine styles and in need, finally, of a dutch press. Impressed by Boofer's, Wayne's, Alex's (sorry, if I've missed others - have learned from them all) press designs.
I'm sure this is a ridiculous question, but then, I'm ridiculously challenged when it comes to engineering. On any dutch press, does one have to have a swivel at the bottom end of the piston, so you don't end up pressing at an angle?
Secondly, thinking of Alex's design - the twin-arm design (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1877.msg14030.html#msg14030). Oak's bloody expensive, any reason the whole thing - I'm thinking, 2x4's, 2x2's, 1x2's - couldn't be made out of pine, or the like? Or, perhaps one could get away with making the piston and arms out of hardwood, the rest, pine?
No swivel needed if you plan it right. By that, I mean keeping the plunger vertical through most of the pressing.
As far as material, the main part that I would be concerned about being very sturdy would be the arm.
Quote from: FarmerJD on February 20, 2011, 08:52:51 PM
No swivel needed if you plan it right. By that, I mean keeping the plunger vertical through most of the pressing.
As far as material, the main part that I would be concerned about being very sturdy would be the arm.
Farmer, let me add thanks to you, as my reading of Boofer's thread has been immeasurably enriched by your postings. I think I want to build a flexible system that will allow me to go anywhere from a very light psi to cheddar ranges; and it seems the best way for me to do that, without having to build a mammoth-length arm, is the pulley system. I'm torn between trying 1x4 oak arms, or going to steel. I also am doing my best to guess lengths - and know if I'm wrong, I may very well end up with the situation where the vertical press goes askew, as you're talking about. So if you, Boofer, Alex, or any of the other engineering whizzes can spare a brother the time, would you have any actual dimensions to work from, assuming a pulley system?
Thanks, Farmer - this represents a kicking-up of both my cheesemaking ambitions, and my learning.
I used 2 1x4 cedar boards for the arm and let them run on the outside of the plunger. Then I put several holes in the plunger so that I could adjust it and keep it vertical. I used a removable pin (bolt) to connect the arm to the plunger. I have put around 400 lbs on the end of this 42" arm and no crashes yet. I don't think you would have any trouble with wood. Are you considering a stand-alone model or the wall idea?
Remember with pulleys, you have to have a considerable amount of travel in the cable/rope to achieve a short travel on the plunger. Not really a problem, but something to consider when planning.
Here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2205.msg16853.html#msg16853) is a link to my intro where I posted a pic of my press. Sorry if redundant. That should give an idea of dimensions. With pulleys, you still need to be close to this arm length I would think. Hope that helps. Kind of rambling. Let me know what else I need to tell you.
Wow, thanks for the link, Farmer! I'm torn, now, and I'm sure that as usual I'm overcomplicating this. I was excited to find 2 double pulleys and silicone-coated stranded wire, cheap. What I was thinking of, was sort of a hybrid, wood arms and uprights, etc., but with the pulley setup, which seems nice. Hadn't thought of the travel idea - so, likely, will have to be countertop, yes, as Boofer has it?
Menard's doesn't have any hardwood other than oak in 2x8. I was thinking of doing a double arm, and a 2x2 plunger - this is what you have, yes? And just construction 2x8's for the uprights. On the other hand, am I right in seeing you have a 2x2 as your back upright, 1x4's in your other places - and are these all softwoods? (don't laugh if I'm way off...I really do admit my ineptitude for anything like this. I was surfing, when I should have been doing shop in H.S.).
Many thanks, Farmer.
You are right about all the measurements except most of the pieces are 1x3's instead of 1x4's and the wood type is spanish cedar which is not as soft a wood as pine. I am sure pine would be fine for what you are doing. Make sure you brace well if using pulleys. Notice the angled boards I added (different color and wood type). They really make a difference especially if you are attaching pulleys at the bottom. Make it work without the pulleys first and then add them later. good luck.
Thanks, Farmer, I do love your design (and the rest of your ingenuity, from your introduction thread). I'm tucking it all away; realizing (as is my bent, and guided by a member with far more common sense than myself) that I am trying way too hard, I think. Especially as I will be wanting to do nothing more than 3 psi on an 8" mold, with a 4x MA, I only need 37.5 lbs raw weight - easily doable with a 2x4 hooked onto something, somewhere.
True story. Used to be part of IFP - Independent Feature Project - West. Actor, writer (L.A.). Went one night to an evening with some guerrilla filmmakers; among them, Robert Rodriguez (El Mariachi) and George Huang (Swimming with Sharks). Rodriguez told of his now-fabled guerrilla techniques, which included firing everybody and "lighting" consisting of some angle iron attached transverse to his 16mm, two bulbs on either side. Got the film in the can for something under $8000, if I remember correctly.
I could use a little brushing up on how much I can get from how little. Much appreciated, though, as these are thoughts I'm filing away should I need to get into more serious pressing.
Neat story. Creativity is a premium product in any pursuit.
Arnaud, For what you are doing I would buy one of the Dutch lever presses on E-Bay. For around $75 you can have a really well made press that will last you a long time.
Sailor, I saw your earlier posts on the one around $95; I need to dig a bit better, I think - I was finding only one for $150 (http://cgi.ebay.com/CHEESE-PRESS-DUTCH-STYLE-CHEESE-PRESS-WE-MAKE-CHEESE-/250763497611?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a62ab508b). Did you see a specific auction, that I'm missing?
Thanks.
Smolt1's presses https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3760.msg29310.html#msg29310 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3760.msg29310.html#msg29310)
Thanks, Pav. Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Cheese-Press-STURDY-PRESS-4-lbs-200-lbs-/220740571941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336529d325) - it seems?
Quote from: ArnaudForestier on February 21, 2011, 03:28:47 PM
Sailor, I saw your earlier posts on the one around $95; I need to dig a bit better, I think - I was finding only one for $150 (http://cgi.ebay.com/CHEESE-PRESS-DUTCH-STYLE-CHEESE-PRESS-WE-MAKE-CHEESE-/250763497611?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a62ab508b). Did you see a specific auction, that I'm missing?
Thanks.
Does anyone know anything about the press listed in this link? I am also going to purchase a dutch press and I found Smolt1's press last November on ebay, then saw it here as well. I just took a look at the one in the link above, and I like the idea that it has a removable base. I don't like to just purchase something, however, not having any feedback from folks that have used it - or at least hearing some thoughts.
Thanks
I'm sure the second link is Smolt's design, so thanks, Pav, on the heads up. I like smolt's design - don't know what the MA possibilities are, etc., but beautifully made.
I've sunk $20 or so into a 2x4, 2x2, 2 nuts, bolts, washers; pulleys and cable are in reserve, in case I get really frisky. Still trying to figure a way to do this thing, street-style. But if Smolt's design can give a decent MA and can allow me to expand into something greater than 3psi or so on an 8" mold, definitely intrigued, and have asked him a couple questions via PM. Thanks for the heads up.
Cheers,
Paul
Well, I'm not sure what I paid for the few materials I used to build my press. Probably under $25 plus a little effort on my part.
I wasn't great in shop class. Hell, it was so long ago, who knows? It didn't take me long to put it together once I had an idea. I asked for plans guidance from a few members here but came away with zilch. Maybe I asked wrong. Anyway, I managed to pull together something that ultimately worked for me.
I wanted to design a somewhat portable press ( :o ) that would handle whatever I decided to throw at it. At the time I thought that perhaps I was over-thinking the whole thing (a common concept, I guess) and maybe overbuilding my press. This past week brings new inspiration. A new member asked about Vasterbotten cheese. What do you know? It needs to be pressed at 90kg per kg of cheese. By my myopic calculations that comes to around 800 pounds. My press design would take that in stride, I believe. My calculated top end is 1800 pounds with 75 pounds applied. That's all theoretical because I have no way of actually measuring it. My bathroom scale topped out at 350 pounds with 15 pounds applied. Extrapolated...it is do-able, although my wife said "Not on my table!"
Anyway, I grabbed my rough working design and added a few pieces of text to clarify a few things. The original sketch showed a length of 36 inches. That got changed quickly to 48 inches so the thing wouldn't topple over. Duh!
After a discussion here on the forum, my pulley attachment points were relocated. The pic shows where they currently are.
As far as travel, I don't really have a problem with that once I pull the rope up to the pressure point and hang the weight. I wish I could just walk up and attach the weight turn-key, but what the heck...it's a reasonable compromise.
I don't use the press for every cheese I make, but it's good to have it available when I do need it. Yesterday I made my first Taleggio and I didn't press at all. Two weeks ago I made my second Esrom and I just pressed in the kettle with 5 lb and 10 lb weights. But my Beauforts, Tommes, Colbys, etc. all get to see my Dutch press up close and personal.
-Boofer-
Well, OK, Boofer, thanks for the clarifications. I have gone with your plans, and was able to use up some stuff from earlier. One question - it looks like your back upright, the pivot box and pin; I am assuming 2" square, for some play, and wondering what the pin diameter is that you're using - looks like it's bored crosswise, through the 2x8, through the arm and through the other side. Is that a - forgot the name, a holding pin through a more substantial pin, of some sort - retaining pin? - holding the whole pivot of the arm in the wood?
Paul,
Sorry I didn't get back to your PMs yesterday. No, I wasn't in the Presidents Day parade. :)
Yeah, the 3+ inch eyebolt sounds about right. The actual pivot pin was cut from a 36 inch length of stainless rod. I drilled a hole through the rod to permit a pull-ring in case I wanted to dismantle and move the press. There's a gotcha that isn't entirely obvious. When I cut the hole for the end of the lever to pass through the tallest upright, I placed it in the center of the board. When I went to align it with the ramrod/piston, I then realized that it should have been offset to go alongside the ramrod. Duh! So the hole just became bigger. No big problem...just not as aesthetically pleasing. The hole isn't just straight-through. It needs to accommodate the upward swing of the lever, so it's beveled.
I looked at vinyl-coated wire and decided that rope would give me more flexibility. The rope I picked has a strength of around 125 pounds. Seems fine with limited stretching.
I don't have a problem with a little torque on the 1 inch lever. I'm not really stressing it that much. I'm not totally sure what effect hanging 75 lbs on the end would have. That much force might just push the screws out of the bottom platform, but right now I have no need to stress the press that way. 15 lbs seems more than adequate for the kind of cheeses I'm doing now. If I were to get into larger molds and larger volumes of milk for cheddar, I might be moving into the higher psi territory.
As I said, I'm not a carpenter or a furniture artisan. I didn't bother to countersink and putty in the screw heads. I did buy some stain and varathane, but I didn't get that done last season. I think it would benefit from at least that bit of finish work. The junction box plate isn't attached. That's one part that just happened. I told my dad what my problem was and he went to his shop and came back with the plate. Eh, it works for what I need, but it sure isn't pretty.
The pics show the eyebolts, pivot pin, and pulley attachments. Hope that's helpful.
-Boofer-
She's ugly. (I mean, UUUUUUUUUGLY, there's a reason pics aren't in macro), but she's built, and she's all mine. Boofer, many thanks! Many tweaks to finish, but, for now ... shield your eyes...:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/Press1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/Presspulleycu.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/rawweight.jpg)
Thanks to everyone, as well, including smolt1, whom I'm holding in reserve in the event my awesome worksmanship doesn't quite, uh, pan out. I'm knocking on wood.
Edit: Just measured, and a 5 lbs weight brought me to 80 lbs, an almost 14x advantage.
Great job! Something satisfying about doing it yourself.
Thanks, Farmer. I had to rip all the lumber using a jigsaw, freehand, and I think it shows. But still, functional, I hope, and really happy with the MA obtained. Am doing my first Beaufort in a couple of days, and will put the press to the test. Thank you again for all your help!
Paul
Well done, Grasshopper. You have . . . mastered . . . the Dutch press.
May many Beauforts and other hard cheeses flow from your fingertips.
Truly, a thing of
quiet & inconspicuous beauty, and awesome cheese-pressing power.
Brings a tear to my eye.... :'(
Deserves a cheese on any day.
I had put this thread away but then I noticed two things:
- Is that the date that you did the press...12-27-2010? Or is your camera date off?
- The junction box plate or some other spreader should be under the piston or you might stress a small area too much on your scale.
-Boofer-
lol - no, Boofer, the date's just wrong, and I'm just lazy. I've been working on a means to bend time, but so far, all I've been successful in achieving is bending metal. When I don't want to.
Roger on the junction plate box - was just testing the raw weight of the arm and plunger (exactly what you got, 11 lbs).
I walk past the press repeatedly, and resist the urge to keep saying "wow," each time I pass. My dog understands.
I already earned my arm tattoos...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/Martial%20Arts/pauliaido.jpg)
...but there's room for more, especially as I get older and I'm finding I have more skin than I used to have. That, and for some reason the dragon morphed to a sea cucumber and the tiger to a teacup. If I survive my first make, I'll be asking for some new stripes, oh grandmaster. ;D
(duh - cheese to you, Boof. Thank you again, really looking forward to putting it through the paces, Cheeses all around, actually, to everyone, for all your help - a great and generous community).
Do people find it a good idea to press in bushings into the wooden holes at the points it is pinned together? I would be concerned over force concentrations at the contact point of the pin. That is one of the things I wonder about when thinking about designing this.
Good job Paul. Great looking press.
Thanks, Rudy. Credit goes to Boofer, who was also really generous in sharing more details about his design. Made the first beaufort, and looking forward to many more. :)
Not being a physics adept, I wonder what amount of pressure is brough to bear on the fulcrum end? I would think it would be considerable. And is it upward pressure, or toward the pulleys, or what (i.e. where does it need reinforcing at that end)? I'd like to build one of these but I don't want it to fling pieces of itself into orbit. :o
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere but I can't find it.
Very good question. Judges?
I'm not a physics professor either, but I believe anxiety over flinging :o anything as a result of this press failing is unwarranted. For most of the cheese styles you may be likely to create, this press and the pressures it brings to bear most likely will fall within a safe zone.
You may resume your morning oatmeal. Catastrophe averted. ;)
Press on, into the cheese wilderness....
-Boofer-
You are exactly right about the force on the fulcrum. It is pushing upward and the only thing holding it in place is integrity of the wood or the friction of the wood fibers. The pin pushes against the wood above it. This force is equal to the weight on the arm x distance from weight to plunger divided by the distance from plunger to pin. Not that it matters but it helps to know it is a very considerable force. The wood integrity should handle it if the board is thick enough. If it does break, there will be a projectile heading toward the ceiling and weights heading toward the floor, (or kitchen countertop as a couple of posters have experienced). You could also place some kind of metal plate along the outside and screw into the wood for extra strength but I think that is overkill. Just use the smallest pin you can get buy with and keep the extra space on the sides of the pin to a minimum so the force on the pin is mostly shear and not deflection. Not sure if anybody understands this but I would not leave as large a gap as Boof and Arnaud did on the sides of the arm where the pin is. The wood needs to be right next to the arm so that you can hardly see the pin at all. This increases the wood integrity and increases what the pin will take. The shear force of a pin is phenomenal but the force it takes to bend or deflect one is not. Boof and Arnaud, please don't take as criticism because your presses obviously work for what you need and are really great examples. Just an observation.
Boofer posted while I was typing this and his point is accurate. Very little danger of this happening unless you really ratchet up the pressure. But it always helps to consider it and make improvements. This is the nature of science. And yes I will return to my oatmeal and ponder the physics of my third-class lever spoon lifting the oatmeal. ;) :P
Excellent response, FarmerJD, as always.
I agree about the size of the hole where the pivot pin is installed. A small miscalculation in my design put the hole directly in the center of the board rather than the final position which offsets it. Thus the larger than designed-for hole. Hey, future builders can benefit from my faux pas. ;)
So then...I shouldn't go ahead and max out the press by applying my 75 lbs of barbell weights to it? What's the integral strength of that piece of wood holding the pivot pin? Nah, better not, I have important cheese work to do.
-Boofer-
I never intended to suggest Boofer's machine wasn't perfect, but just in case I can't use the same materials and have to change the design slightly, I needed more data. It sounds like a bit of reinforcing at the top will make everyone sleep easier at my house.
I originally wanted to use the off-the-wall design but when I described the forces involved (and drilling a hole in a stud) that plan was vetoed.
Boofer, I can tell you approach things kind of like I do: hands on. I hung 2 ceiling fans Saturday and the first one took an hour; the second one 7 minutes. Experience is priceless.
Marta, I wouldn't give up on the wall press because it is so much less work to build it. And the arm can be detached and put away much easier than a big press. Good luck.
I made this one for a couple dollars
http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/50-Off-the-Wall-Press-Plans.html (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/50-Off-the-Wall-Press-Plans.html)
Quote from: Marta on March 02, 2011, 01:43:29 PM
Not being a physics adept, I wonder what amount of pressure is brough to bear on the fulcrum end? I would think it would be considerable. And is it upward pressure, or toward the pulleys, or what (i.e. where does it need reinforcing at that end)? I'd like to build one of these but I don't want it to fling pieces of itself into orbit. :o
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere but I can't find it.
Hi Marta.
I too would endorse JD's advice, whatever it might be. :) But since you are looking for more ideas here's a thread that might be useful:
RenaissanceM's Press (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4804.0.html)
Quote from: Marta on March 02, 2011, 01:43:29 PM
Not being a physics adept, I wonder what amount of pressure is brough to bear on the fulcrum end? I would think it would be considerable. And is it upward pressure, or toward the pulleys, or what (i.e. where does it need reinforcing at that end)? I'd like to build one of these but I don't want it to fling pieces of itself into orbit. :o
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere but I can't find it.
it will be purely up provided that all the other forces on the arm are purely vertical and your arm is level. The force will also be equal to the force your press is exerting on the cheese minus the weight at the other end. It needs to be that way to balance the forces out and not have the arm in a condition it is accelerating. So this is not as much force as the point it attaches to the ram, but it is a significant amount of force.
It becomes somewhat more complex if you are say using pullies and are not putting a purely vertical force on the arm, or the arm is at a significant angle. Small angles are fairly ignorable for this unless you had some strange construction that small horizontal forces on the arm would induce failure in your design.
Quote from: Boofer on March 02, 2011, 03:05:21 PM
Excellent response, FarmerJD, as always.
I agree about the size of the hole where the pivot pin is installed. A small miscalculation in my design put the hole directly in the center of the board rather than the final position which offsets it. Thus the larger than designed-for hole. Hey, future builders can benefit from my faux pas. ;)
So then...I shouldn't go ahead and max out the press by applying my 75 lbs of barbell weights to it? What's the integral strength of that piece of wood holding the pivot pin? Nah, better not, I have important cheese work to do.
-Boofer-
It would probably be a good idea to test it with any weight outside for a moderate duration before using that weight to make cheese. That way if you have a structural failure it will be in a better place for that to happen.
Quote from: FarmerJD on March 02, 2011, 03:41:01 PM
Boofer, I can tell you approach things kind of like I do: hands on. I hung 2 ceiling fans Saturday and the first one took an hour; the second one 7 minutes. Experience is priceless.
Marta, I wouldn't give up on the wall press because it is so much less work to build it. And the arm can be detached and put away much easier than a big press. Good luck.
But if she isn't permitted to tie it into the structure of the wall at a stud I would not trust the integrity of wallboard to deal with this. The vetoed comment suggests to me that tying it into the structure of the wall the way it would need to be is unacceptable for some reason.
Quote from: Pondering Turtle on March 03, 2011, 01:24:53 PM
The vetoed comment suggests to me that tying it into the structure of the wall the way it would need to be is unacceptable for some reason.
Yeah, her husband (or S.O.) doesn't want her drilling holes in the studs.
-Boofer-
Since I put my studs in, and neglected to cover them with drywall, I had to ask nobody if I could drill into mine!
My only real concern was when I was trying to achieve 20PSI using an 8 inch mould, was the half ton upward force on my basement ceiling. (20x50.25=1005lbs)
My wife actually asked me if I would lift the house. And while I shrugged off her concern with a "Oh not a chance", I was secretly crossing my fingers.
The notion of tonnage upon a poor cheese had me stumped for a while. Thoughts of stuff like Wayne lifting his house did indeed cross my mind! Once I figured out the counter forces involved I realized it really isn't all that much if MA is used to best advantage. The Dutch Press and variations are by far the best. The idea of tying into a stud being the easiest way to do this, and you probably won't lift your house. In my case, I had a concrete wall where I wanted to build my press and wasn't going to drill into that, so I figured out that a long and sturdy base would be enough to counter a 70 lb weight, double pulley and MA of 5.5 gave me a sizable amount of weight on my cheese.
The press in the photo is sitting on a bench, not tied to any wall, the concrete cylinder is about 35 Kg so the weight upon the cheese is just over 350 Kg. I later added a second pulley to double this amount.
Quote from: Wayne Harris on March 03, 2011, 06:28:30 PM
My wife actually asked me if I would lift the house. And while I shrugged off her concern with a "Oh not a chance", I was secretly crossing my fingers.
That brought a smile to my face. :)
-Boofer-
I can just see Wayne's next thread... "Using a house as the weight on a Dutch Press: best practices" :o
"but honey, I HAVE to get rid of these mechanical openings"
coffee joe, I like the way you think. What is the base, and how is the upright attached to it? Did you have these materials lying around the house or is there a road sign somewhere in your town now standing on one leg? (a serious question... I quick shop of the big box stores today did not find any material sturdy enough for this project.)
I was considering finding a used engine hoist and taking out the lift piston, but your idea looks easier.
Marta,
The engine hoist is the same principle. In my case the base is a 10" wide and 4" thick slab of hardwood. The riser is from a scrap yard that had angle iron from a power tower, but a pair of 2X4 would work just fine, the arm would work in between them. The length of the arm is 50" and the fulcrum is at 15" Need to fix the risers to the base well, I embedded the angle iron into the wood base and fixed with 4" X 3/16 wood screws. Make the arm just a bit longer than the base you have and it won't tip over.
Another thought, (although you may not want your engine hoist in your kitchen). If you turn the arm and the upside down so that the piston pushes down on the arm you will have a very serious cheese press
And they have wheels! I could move my cheese! ;D
I never realized just wanting to make a 7" wheel would involve so much engineering.
Oh, an engine hoist! I have a few of those... thats a brilliant idea. Would mean DH wont get to 'engineer' anything... but i dont really want it in my kitchen and for some reason i dont want my cheese in the garage... Guess he will be 'engineering' anyway!