Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum and sort of new to cheese making.
I actually got started in vegan camembert, mastered that and thought, well real cheese must be much easier. NOPE.
My Brie comes out strong and stinky time after time. I'm on my 4th batch and less than a week into the regular fridge (36-40 F) it already smells. The cheese is edible, but really only for motivated/adventurous cheese eaters. The stank comes on before the paste can even get nice and soft.
I have made Brie using the cheesemaking.com recipe and a kit from New England cheese making. Premeasured cultures and rennet, so it should be ok. I use a sous vide, so temperature during the ripening is right. I don't have access to raw milk but I am using grass-fed, mixed European herd milk, not ultra pasteurized.
I'm probably not as dainty as I should be while moving the curd to the molds (standard Brie hoops with draining mats), but I don't think that's the problem. I let them grow their white coat in a box in my "cave" (temp controlled mini fridge) to keep the humidity high but protect them from drips. This most recent batch, I tried moving them to the regular fridge as soon as their was white mold fully covering the surface. I wrapped them in the dual layer cheese paper and put them in a box with racks so they have air around them and covered it to control the smell.
Why is my cheese so stinky?! I just want to make a nice soft brie with a hint of flavor, but I keep getting big wheels of stinky foot cheese.
Cheese help!
Thanks
stringcheese
Hi stringcheese, and welcome to the forum!
What color is the cheese when it begins to stink? When you say "stinky foot," that sounds like you've got some b. Linens going, which normally will give you a reddish color. b Linens is prolific in the atmosphere, so you don't necessarily need to add it to the milk to get it on the cheese. :)
If it is the PC and geo at work, you should be smelling a musty, mushroomy smell at first, and later some hints of ammonia. If the latter is what you are describing ... honestly, I'm puzzled. It should take at least a few weeks to get to where you have strong ammonia.
Only things I can think of: 1) are you sure the wrapping paper you are using is specifically ripening paper? There is a "cheese wrapping paper" that looks similar, but does not "breathe" the way the ripening paper does. 2) You might try making a camembert-size rather than brie-size, and see if the form factor allows the ripening to progress in a better way. (That one is really reaching, but like I said, I'm puzzled ... !)
It's perfectly white! And to be clear the stink is MOSTLY ammonia, and then gets a little footy (which I like).
The paper is the dual layer perforated for white mold cheeses bought from New England cheese making. I'm 95% sure it's correct.
The most recent batch has been in the regular fridge since saturday and the ammonia smell has started.
I don't have camembert size molds (yet) so I haven't been able to try down sizing.
I just have no idea! I read that the ammonia strength is due to temperature so I moved it to the cold fridge as fast as I thought I could.
I'll sniff again tonight to see if it's mostly ammonia again, or if I'm getting some good mushroom smell.
Something about my setup is bad for mild brie. BUT it makes amazing, smelly cashew cheeses. And ok goudas.
Thanks for the help!
What strain of PC do you use? You could try with a strain that has less proteolytic activity to delay the development of amonia.
Is it possible that you are just trapping the ammonia in the box around the cheese? Ammonia will settle as it is heavier than air. You might have some luck with just taking the cheese out for a bit and letting the box and cheese breathe for a while every day so the cheese doesn't sit in a pool of ammonia.
How many days do you allow the cheese to dry before moving to high moisture area? 50% humdity for 5-7 days?
I'm not sure of the exact strain since I bought Steve Shapson's kit.
Typically I give the cheese a day of drying at room temp on a mat before I move to the aging box.
I checked again yesterday, the ammonia smell that was there before has not increased. And I definitely have a lovely mushroom stank. I'm going to try giving these guys some breathing time and see how it goes.
In the meantime, I'm messing up a cabra al vino because apparently I don't get "cheese days" off of work. So mine will have an unplanned drying time before I can get it into brine. :-[
I will update again later. In the meantime I emailed Steve as well.
Thanks!
Quote from: stringcheese on February 04, 2019, 09:47:26 PM
apparently I don't get "cheese days" off of work
Ha ha ha! I can *so* relate to this :-) I work from home and sometimes in a video conference and I'll be "Sorry guys. Gotta flip my cheese. I'll be right back". I suspect they think I'm mad.
NEC recommends drying for longer else you will have too much whey trapped in cheese and quick protolytic break down which releases ammonia.
Quote from: mikekchar on February 04, 2019, 10:57:37 PM
Quote from: stringcheese on February 04, 2019, 09:47:26 PM
apparently I don't get "cheese days" off of work
Ha ha ha! I can *so* relate to this :-) I work from home and sometimes in a video conference and I'll be "Sorry guys. Gotta flip my cheese. I'll be right back". I suspect they think I'm mad.
I may or may not work from home on the same schedule as milk deliveries....
Quote from: Dorchestercheese on February 05, 2019, 12:36:13 PM
NEC recommends drying for longer else you will have too much whey trapped in cheese and quick protolytic break down which releases ammonia.
Thanks, I'll try drying it more next time. I have to check exactly how long this batch was.
An update on my most recent Brie.
It's been aging since 1/28 and a bit softer at the edges, and VERY mushroomy. I gave in and cut one of the wheels. I don't have a picture, but its not a home run.
There is rind slip throughout and the aging is incomplete. There is a soft edge leading into a firm paste center. It certainly tastes fine, but I wouldn't brag about making it myself.
I've have read that the slip is due to waiting to long to develop the white coat. These cheeses didn't have a very long coat development time and I very promptly moved them to the regular fridge. So I'm not sure what happened there.
And reading several recipes, it seems like a month could be too short, but some say that it is sufficient aging. My wheels are standard Brie size (7 or so inches round).
I re-wrapped and I'm going to continue aging in my normal refrigerator until my husband yells at me for the smell.
I'm starting to think I should stick to vegan Bries.
Hi String,
Aging in the cold refrigerator will DEFINITELY take longer than a month - my "camemberts" (actually too large for cams - 5.5" diameter - but too small for brie) take 6-8 weeks.
Based on your description, I'm not (yet) convinced you have slip skin. The normal pattern of development is definitely from the outside in, so at midpoint you would expect the outside areas to be softened while the inside is still quite firm. If it is really slip skin, the skill will be completely loose, with a little bit of paste under it almost runny.
I'd say give it another 2-3 weeks and see how it progresses. My only hesitation is the ammonia smell you are describing - when mine are wrapped and in the cold fridge, they don't really smell at all. Certainly as they get soft all the way to the center, the ammonia will get strong; I like to eat them when they are soft much of the way through, but still have a little core of firmer cheese. In either case, if you let the cheese warm out on a plate for a while, much of the ammonia smell will dissipate.
Let us know how it is in 2-3 weeks!
Another update in the saga. I placed one in the cave for a week, and it is soft all the way through and the ammonia smell has crept in. Back to the fridge!
The one that has only seen cold is now in the cave, but I'm only giving it 2 days and then back to the fridge.
I owe someone a piece of cheese so I'll err on underdone for now.
And in the end, it was too stinky for anyone to eat. I threw out 2 full wheels. :-[
Brie may just be a mozzarella for me. With it being so easy to buy good Brie, there's really no need for me to struggle with it.
It can be due to poor drainage of the Brie that you made. In order to have good drainage, proper acidification is a must. Acid demineralise and makes the calcium in milk becomes chalky, porous and syneresis.
For me it starts before I add the rennet, I wait until the PH drops significantly. This allow the calcium to become porous therefore allows good drainage.
The other thing is, add geo, it does wonders to soft cheese making.