I was thinking of making the recipe in Caldwell for a extra hard washed curd cheese.
I used su casu thermo culture blend.
But my sous vide device just could not lift the temperature of the milk above 114. The target had been more like 125. The sous vide device is 800 watts, but I think the main problem is that I was trying to heat up 5 gallons of milk.
So after stirring at this temp to good texture and pH, I did a cool wash to take the temp back down 10 degrees.
So it is sort of like a thermophyllic Havarti?
I am not sure what to call it, or how long to age it! I think I will taste it in 6 months!
It looks lovely! AC4U!
So 125 F is 51 C, which is right at the edge of the thermophilic range. 114 is 45 C which is still quite high (and at least high enough to kill off any mesophilic bacteria). It may be that the curds will retain a bit more moisture due to the temp... Also, how much of the whey did you remove, because that's going to determine how much lactose is available... If you just removed enough to hit your target temp, then possibly it will be a bit short and your cheese will end up getting a bit more acidic.
So... reducing the ageing time seems like it might work out well. 5 gallons is a beast, though! I'm impressed. I'm having enough trouble just buying 4 litres of milk these days (at $15 a gallon, it's not selling all that well and the grocery store has reduced how much it is willing to buy...)
I am not too worried about the moisture in the curd because I cut the curd pretty small and stirred a for fairly dry texture. And not worried about final acidity because of the curd dryness and the pH at brining. Part of the reason for doing washed curd is the starting pH of the milk right now is about 6.5. I use less than 1/16 tsp of starter per gallon, and then watch the drop closely!!
Luckily it is a large cheese so I can try it at various stages!!
I am milking 2 Jersey cows at present in my volunteer job, so milk is easy to come by! And it usually is still warm from the cows when it goes in the vat!!
But I think with such a large volume of milk I have to use a different heat source, or add pre-heated water if I want to do thermophyllic makes.
Oh, I am *so* jealous! I would gladly milk cows in exchange for milk!!! In fact, I'd probably pay for it! I just went to the store and bought 3 litres of my normal milk (~$12), which is all they had. I got another 900 ml of super expensive milk (usually $7 per litre, but it was the day before expiry and I got it for half price). So over $15 for a pound of cheese... Still, it both my hobby *and* less expensive than buying cheese directly... I may have mentioned that I discovered a neighbour that has a billy goat. Just need to convince the wife to buy a house and get a couple of pets :-)
It probably won't help enough, but one thing you can do is put a blanket below and around the tub of water. I've often done that for beer brewing and it can make a surprising difference.
Susan--I enjoy reading about your cheesemaking experiments. I hope to have a similar level of experience someday so I can just "wing it" when issues like yours come up (although I'm starting to get there with my cream cheeses after countless makes). Whatever you decide to call this new cheese, I'm sure it will be tasty.
I've considered a sous vide setup but I have a burner on my gas stove that I had the installer crank the gas input down as low as possible, and it is actually low enough to easily and successfully keep cheese make temperatures where I want them, with careful watching and some adjustments as needed. I'm thinking with your setup you could "walk away" a little more frequently than with mine.
Sounds like you are in the process of determining just how large a batch you can do thermos with your setup. Do you think it will work with a 4 gallon batch? Curious about 5 gallon cheese makes...resulting in 5 lb. cheeses? Are you a commercial producer, have a large family, and/or have lots of cheese-eating friends? :) Do you find you need to age the larger cheeses significantly longer than the smaller (say, 2 lb) ones?
(And, as someone who grew up in the Santa Clara/Cupertino area, I cannot believe you are finding Jersey cows to milk near to you! I'm guessing you have a bit of a commute back and forth. What a great opportunity for you though!)
Thanks for posting! --Susan38
Oops, forgot in last post to ask...what are you thinking the su casu culture blend will bring to the table, or rather the cheese, in terms of flavor/texture/?? Or in other words, why did you choose this particular culture vs. another thermo blend? Tx, S.
Susan and Susan38,
FWIW, these days I do all my cheesemaking using direct heat.
Three keys for me: #1 is that I pre-heat the milk. While I am sterilizing and setting up, I set the jugs in the sink and fill the sink with hot water - this will bring the milk up to around 80°F by the time I am ready to use it. (In fact, if I am doing only 2 gallons, I have to be sure it does not heat up too much.)
#2 is a "gentle" burner and a heavy pan that spreads the heat well (e.g., something with an aluminum insert in the bottom, surrounded by stainless steel). I generally never go past "4" on my burner (on a 1-10 scale); sometimes 2 or 3 is best when I need a slower temperature rise.
#3 is that I only use the burner when I actually need to increase the temperature of the milk. I find that once I bring milk to a given temperature, it will hold that temperature for a long, long time. Note that most of my makes are 4 gallons, but even the 2 gallon makes hold well. Oh, the temperature might drop a degree or two while it is ripening and/or curding, but not enough to be a problem. Often I aim for the upper end of the target range when I heat the milk up to ripen, to allow for the degree or two of drop through the curding stage. If I then need to cook the curds, I use the appropriate low setting as mentioned above to get the temperature curve I need - learned through experience, but that came pretty quickly.
Of course, different setups, different stoves, different makes - what works for me may not work for anyone else - but it does work for me! :)
Andy--Ya, I played around with regular water baths but found it was no easier to regulate temperature than direct heat (and when milk would stall out on warming, I felt I was wasting a lot of hot water, ladling out the cooler stuff and adding more hot). Of course the sous vide would keep the water temp even so that would not be an issue, by comparison.
I actually pasteurize my very-much-appreciated-fresh-Jersey-milk (not ready to try raw milk cheeses yet), then cool to the cheese recipe ripening temp and go from there. My low gas burner, on lowest setting, does the "2 degrees increase in 5 minutes" cooking very well for some time, but I do need to shut it off and restart from time to time. The other burners on my stove are much hotter, and I know that if I did not have this one super low burner I would be looking for a different heating method.
An acquaintance of mine developed what he calls "simmer sticks", which are I think square tubular aluminum rods designed to put on either side of a burner, to rest a pot on, elevated above the burner an inch or so. They are supposed to be great for making those fussy delicate sauces that must not be overheated, and things like that. I may get a set and try them out for cheesemaking to see if that will work any better than the arrangement I am using now.
Also, the air temp in the house is usually at 65 degrees or thereabouts, so the 2 gallon milk volume I use does cool off a bit quicker than say on a hot day when it's 72 degrees or more in the kitchen. That's yet another factor to consider into the equation of regulating milk temperatures over a relatively long time period! (For example, I really have to amend my cream cheese recipe ripening and draining times quite a bit due just to house temperature variations.) --Susan38
Wow!! You guys get way to into it.
MAke cheese, keep records what works works.
If u are going to sell it to the public you will have to be very careful.
If you make it for you and yours enjoy.
Main thing cleanliness is next to cheeseslyness.
Just my thoughts :)
Oh, btw Hi!
Hi HKJ, haven't seen a post from you in a while - good to see you!
Hi Andy
Been busy, no cheese for a while gettin ready for some cams.
I love the opportunity to try different ideas out and to experiment. Even though the milk I use is "free" for only my labor, I still feel like it is a treasure not to be abused or wasted. I am very lucky to have this opportunity. The farm is in a popular local hiking area, so teaching passers by is part of my "job". The farm is 15 minutes from my home so the milk is usually at the right temperature to start my makes when I bring it home!
I have done MANY makes with direct heat, usually using a cast iron diffuser between the burner and the very thin metal of the steam pan. Because i am short, the steam pan is much easier to stir than a taller pan. But they are never made with thick material, so other ideas need to be found.
I like to stir the curds with my hands so I can feel what is going on, and because that seems more gentle than a spoon. And I can tease the curds apart when they want to clump. Because I have my hands in the pan, it is easy to feel the temperature gradient between the curds at the bottom and those hanging out near the top.
There does seem to be more even temperature throughout the pan with the sous vide set up, and the temperature is held exactly for a long time.
I do have think the 800 watt device will be sufficient for thermophyllic with 4 gallons. And that usually is the the maximum size I try to mess with. Filling the pan with 5 gallons means there will be a mess somewhere!! There just has been such a lot of milk recently that it is fun to push it!
I share with friends, family, potlucks, groups that I belong to and of course I eat it! I have been afraid to try selling or bartering with it. My fridge is pretty full though!!
Yes, I like to get my hands in the curds, especially for thermo makes with smaller curd size and higher temps - when the heat gets to around 100-105°F, somewhere in there, it seems like the curds want to clump up like mad. A whisk, called for in some recipes, has never worked well for me - either not enough or too much. Finally, an excuse to play with my food! :)
Oh yes, and regarding the Su casu starter, I have been really happy with the flavors on the cheeses with this culture. What I really ought to do is a side by side comparison with a different thermo blend!
QuoteWhat I really ought to do is a side by side comparison with a different thermo blend!
That's a really great idea-- to compare different culture blends at the same time--it's something I would be interested in doing, too, especially with something like a Gouda. Of course, the time commitment of several consecutive days in a row to make each cheese could be a little challenging to schedule in...
Opened this cheese today, at 7 months. I usually forget to weigh the cheese when opening so I was a bit surprised to find it lost almost exactly 1# before I vacuum sealed it! I did not document when I sealed it, but I imagine that was at about 3 months judging by the thickness of the drier part of the rind.
So, the results... wow this is tasty! I am very pleased. Creamy flexible paste with multiple small holes. Really nice nutty flavor.
I have done more thermophyllic makes with 4.5 - 4.75 gallons, using the Avanto food warmer, which has a larger heating element, is 1200 watts and heating 1.5 gallons of water surrounding the steam pan. I feel I have to be more careful about setting the temp to not overshoot, but it does the job on heating to the target temp ranges. See the second attachment.
Wow! That looks awesom. AC4U!
Yum! Another C4U!
Looks great!
Trent