OK. I decided to experiment over the weekend. I made a 3# Emmental and added dried blueberries to the curds just before pressing. My thought was that the blueberries would rehydrate somewhat from the moisture in the curds. After brining for 6 hours, the blueberries on the surface are obviously VERY salty but I hope the ones on the interior will develop a nice flavor from the Propionic shermani. My intention is to remove those surface blueberries after aging. This will leave a hole where the brined blueberries were at. I will replace those with fresh blueberries (stuck back in the holes) before serving.
The surface blueberries obviously re-hydrated. During pressing, the juice ran and blended into the cheese matrix with lots of purple veins. Looks very cool. We'll see how it turns out. Was this a crazy idea? :D
Picture? :)
I think it's a kewl idea! As the berries rehydrate and the cheese shrinks it will probably look really colorful inside.
I've never tried dehydrated blueberries but I use dehydrated peppers and onions in cheddars and recently in my cotswold and they come out really good.
Who knows maybe some of the blueberries will fall into the holes. If it rattles when you shake it we will know for sure! ;D
Blueberries sounds very nice!
I made a cheddar yesterday and decided (at the last minute) to put some fried red onion soaked in balsamic vinegar inside - mainly because I was cooking with them at the time!
Not sure how it'll turn out ...
Sounds like another winner!
OK, it hit 90 days so we cracked this one last night. I really thought this would work with the dried blueberries, but this cheese was a miserable failure. VERY, VERY dry with a fermented musk to it - just as Francois predicted when using fruit. Worst tasting cheese on the planet. Dogs wouldn't even eat it, so it went into the compost bin. :'(
Unfortunately, I just did a blueberry and a raspberry Stilton 3 weeks ago that may turn out the same way. Maybe not. We'll see.
Sailor what a shame. Still you've tried it, and now you know.
I wonder why it works with cheddar but not swiss style cheeses?
Hey Debbie,
I see you have made Cotswold. This does have salt in it??? The recipe I have got from the Tim Smith book does not mention salt and I think it is a typo?? Can you tell me about your recipe please.
Thanks, Newbie, Jude from NZ
Hmmm no salt? If I remember right I added salt to the curds. Let me see if I can find my notes and I will get back to you. Did I post it here? Hmmmm
Yes I did salt the curds. I think this basic recipe might have come from Tim Smiths book and your right it does not mension salt. I guess I subconciously assumed that being a Double Glouster cheese you salt the curds. I don't remember thinking about it. According to my notes I added 3 tablespoons of kosher salt to a 4.5 gallon batch of curds.
I will try to find that thread and edit as needed.
Sorry to hyjack you thread Sailor!
Felicitations, Sailor. Painful being on the bleeding edge. That blueberry idea seems to work for Stiltons. Wonder why not swiss? There were probably more than a few people here waiting for the unveiling.
-Boofer-
What a shame :( It's annoying when you've put so much effort into a cheese, only for it to end up inedible!
I think Debi may have hit on an important point when she asked why it works with Cheddars. Well one big difference is that Cheddars are salted curd while Swiss are brined. I will try this again, but next time I am going to brine the blueberries ahead of time.
The fascinating thing was that the one that just failed was incredibly dry. Like a fermentation process just sucked ALL of the moisture out of the cheese.
Ahhh... but I have redeemed myself with a fantastic Flan Au Bleu Du Queyras (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2055.0.html).
So you are thinking that the blueberries sucked the life out of the cheese huh? And blues are so wet to begin with you would think they'd be perfect. When it works it should be a lovely cheese.
Well I originally use dehydrated blueberries. My thought was that they would simply rehydrate from all the moisture from the whey. I'm sure that pulled SOME of the excess whey out and contributed to the final dryness. But I don't think that was the major factor. I believe that the sugars in the blueberries created a micro environment for fermentation instead of (or in addition to) normal lactose conversion. I believe that fermentation by naturally occurring yeasts probably produced alcohol, just like wine fermentation. Alcohol just destroyed the entire lactose cheese aging process. Cheddars would work because the salted curds would inhibit yeasts and fermentation.
It might help to use extra starter or ripen longer so the curds are more acidic before/after ppressing. A lower pH inhibits most yeast. I will also vacuum bag much earlier next time to cut off air supply to the yeast.
This may or may not happen with the blueberry and raspberry Stiltons that I have aging right now. Blues have a completely different microbiology and chemistry going on.
Well win, loose or draw that's what keeps us going isn't it? Good luck on the stiltons.
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on November 23, 2009, 03:27:13 AM
Well I originally use dehydrated blueberries. My thought was that they would simply rehydrate from all the moisture from the whey. I'm sure that pulled SOME of the excess whey out and contributed to the final dryness. But I don't think that was the major factor. I believe that the sugars in the blueberries created a micro environment for fermentation instead of (or in addition to) normal lactose conversion. I believe that fermentation by naturally occurring yeasts probably produced alcohol, just like wine fermentation. Alcohol just destroyed the entire lactose cheese aging process. Cheddars would work because the salted curds would inhibit yeasts and fermentation.
It might help to use extra starter or ripen longer so the curds are more acidic before/after ppressing. A lower pH inhibits most yeast. I will also vacuum bag much earlier next time to cut off air supply to the yeast.
This may or may not happen with the blueberry and raspberry Stiltons that I have aging right now. Blues have a completely different microbiology and chemistry going on.
Whatever happened with the blueberry Stilton?
I'm looking to try this (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10003.0.html) and I need some guidance on whether I should proceed and, if so, rind development.
-Boofer-
Blueberries are VERY acidic so you will need to compensate.
So what happened to your blueberry Stilton?
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on August 03, 2012, 11:57:11 PM
Blueberries are VERY acidic so you will need to compensate.
What do you mean? These dried berries seem not so acidic as fresh.
Is what I'm thinking with this make
do-able?
-Boofer-
Drying doesn't get rid of the acid. In fact it may concentrate it. As part of your planning, I suggest you rehydrate some in water, then test the pH.
You're right, they are acidic. What can I do to balance them with the paste? What would they do if I did nothing to correct?
Looks like this make is on-hold for now until I get a better understanding.
On to Plan B or C for tomorrow morning.... :P
-Boofer-
You might want to try and rehydrate them with fermented whey (low in lactose) just to cover the halved fruit,
and nuetrilize some of the acid with alkeline to say 4.7-5.0.
I cant say if it will solve your problems but its worth a try.
Thanks for that suggestion.
I decided last night before I went to bed that I could probably soak them and leach out some of the acidity. I'm using distilled water and I just racked off the blue water from overnight and replaced it with clean distilled water. After this soaks for a while I'll take another pH reading and see if I'm accomplishing anything. The downside is that I am tossing blueberry character out with the blue water. I hope there is enough left when I finish.
-Boofer-
A pH of 3.8 cannot be ignored or you will have all sorts of paste/texture defects. If you do nothing and simply put the dried fruit into the curds, the blueberries will create a localized acidity problem as they rehydrate in the cheese. This will manifest itself as a drier, crumbly area surrounding the fruit. FYI - the same thing happens with tomatoes. This is even more problematic with a Swiss, because Propionic really doesn't like too much acid.
If mitigating with just water, you will have to do that several time to see much effect. By then all of the flavor will be gone. Remember that the acid is IN the berries, not ON the berries. So, I rehydrate with a little baking soda and balance to a pH of 5.4. The blueberries will lose the excess acid, but also some of the natural tartness. They will seem much sweeter because of the increased pH.
There are trade offs, no matter what you do, but the baking soda wash has produced the best results for me.
Yeah, I didn't get a whole lot of steerage going in so I ended up winging it. My thought was to leach out as much of the acid as I could, knowing I would probably diminish the character as well. I soaked and drained probably half a dozen times over several hours including overnight last night. It's in the press now using just the weight of the lever arm and piston (11 pounds), heading towards pH5.00.
Not sure how this is going to turn out. Fingers crossed. I'm in foreign territory...without a compass.
I will be documenting further down the road just in case it does work out okay and some other fool wants to try the blueberries & cheese thing. ::)
-Boofer-