Tripped over this website for Vella Cheese Company, Inc. (http://www.vellacheese.com/pages/index.html) based in Sonoma California USA.
In their picture tour of making Dry Jack Cheese, they use a natural rind coating of vegetable oil, cocoa, and peppers, picture & info #1 (http://www.vellacheese.com/pages/tour/pages/23-coating.html), and #2 (http://www.vellacheese.com/pages/tour/pages/24-aging3.html), and #3 (http://www.vellacheese.com/pages/tour/pages/24a-aging4.html).
While not chocolate, it would infuse the taste, has anyone tried this method, have any idea of the ratios, and if one or several rubbings?
Also, anyone actually bought this and can post picture/smell/taste/texture etc?
Coco hmmm ... the oils maybe? It takes coco years to become racid and it doesn't develop mold maybe thats it?
So I emailed Vella Cheese Company asking them what type of pepper and what type of oil and they very helpfully replied:
QuoteThe pepper in the dry jack coating is black pepper-like the kind in a pepper grinder. It is 80 mesh, so a bit more coarse than the kind in a shaker! No bell peppers here!
QuoteThe oil we use is Soy Bean oil......Hope that helps.
Sounds like butchers grind pepper and soybean oil .. hmmm regular coco?
Thanks for clue Debi, I assume regular cocoa.
Anyone:
- Any guesses on where in USA I could find/buy such a pepper grind?
- Any thoughts on the ratio of cocoa to pepper, (ratio of soy bean oil I'll guess from the picture, unless someone knows)?
- If I want to do this to a Gouda, how long after brining do I apply the paste (or should I not do this to a brined rind type cheese)?
I'm going to give this rind a try this weekend.
OK, have done a little Internet research and:
- Mesh size means the number of even sized holes in a 1" x 1" square, so higher the number of holes the smaller they have to be.
- Pepper or other material's sizes are normally quoted by mesh range as in 20/40, meaning any particles that pass larger hole #20 but don't pass smaller hole #40. So saying #80 mesh black pepper is not very exact.
- This webpage (http://www.occidentalfoods.com/ProductList/Product%20List%20-%20Alpha.htm) lists black peppers in several sizes including: Whole Peppers, Ground 10-14 Dustless, Ground 18-22 Dustless, Ground 25-28 Dustless, Ground 60/80 Mesh Fine Grind, and Ground 80/100 Mesh Super-Fine (Powder). So for #80 I need a very fine grind, but as Vella sales representative said, not as fine as what comes out of a pepper shaker.
I buy alot of butchers ground pepper for my pastrami and sausage making. Here are two good soruces. The half gallon and gallon sizes are a great price when you consider those el cheapo spices give you 2 ounces for $1.
http://www.conyeagerspice.com/ (http://www.conyeagerspice.com/)
http://www.sfherb.com/ (http://www.sfherb.com/)
BTW if you want to use it for anything else just throw it in a coffee mill and it'll be regular ground pepper.
SFHERB is awesome. In a previous life I used to buy soap ingredients from them. I also used to buy herbs to mix up for fresh chev from them as well. Their quality is consistent.
Just revisited Vella's cheese tour website pictures and info, they coat with this mixture about 5 weeks after brining.
I'll just have to wait :(.
Definately has my curiousity going!
I agree SF Herb is a great company. I buy 10 to 12 gallons of spice from them every year - excelent prices too!
This got my curiousity going too. Cocoa is something I never would have thought of adding to an oiled rind. I found this description of the Vella Dry Jack in a wine and cheese paring article here, http://www.charlescreekcommunity.com/profiles/blogs/wine-and-cheese-perfect-1 (http://www.charlescreekcommunity.com/profiles/blogs/wine-and-cheese-perfect-1)
Quote2007 En Casa California Pinot Grigio ~ Vella Dry Jack, Sonoma CA: This Artisan cow's milk cheese was very firm with a cocoa rind, which meant that it had gathered a bit of age. It was crumbly and dry, as a result of now having low moisture and oil. We crumbled the cheese, tasting just a tiny bit of it, to get the initial taste to understand its flavor and how it would then interplay with the Pinot Grigio. The wine introduced a lemony, crisp acidity, blending the two – solid and liquid – into a creamy texture on everyone's palate. It was an instant hit.
Christy
i can imagine how good this would be.
every chocolate lover knows how the atctec had their cocoa? ;)
we still can find chocolate today that has chilli mixed in.
i would love to try and make a cheese with this rind too. it will be fun and test our patience to figure out the best balance. ::)
Today made paste of:
- 2 fluid ounces Canola Oil (had no Soy Bean oil).
- 4 tablespoons cocoa powder.
- 2 tablespoons fine ground pepper.
Paste was still too liquid compared to Vella Cheese Company's picture, next time will use just 1 ounce oil.
Then painted two young Goudas (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2344.0.html) at two weeks, this is earlier than Vella does at ~5 weeks but I don't think I could keep mine mold free for that long.
I buy spices from The Spice House & Penzeys - both have several different size grinds of pepper
http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/pepper-ground-black-tellicherry (http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/pepper-ground-black-tellicherry)
Also, since I'm a pre-newbie in cheese making I can't comment on this from the cheese making end since I haven't even begun to think about rinds, but I do bake & was thinking about the cocoa and figure I'd throw this out in case it's helpful. Different types of cocoa have different fat contents & acidity levels. If you want something with less fat content you might want to take a look at black cocoa (a lesser known cocoa). In baking it is usually mixed with dutch cocoa rather than by itself because the fat content is so low but the two combined create an intense chocolate product. I haven't looked but I suspect that there may be fat content variations among the different brands of the same type. As far as acidity -- Dutch cocoa is processed differently than Natural cocoa and the Dutch is less acidic than the Natural.
Deb
One of these days I am going to visit Penzeys. I've heard a lot about it from a guy on my forum from Danbury. I just hate the crazy traffic down there!
A was wondering if you can get grape seed oil. Very light, low fat oil similar in flavor and texture to soybean oil.
Debi,
There is also one in West Hartford now. Traffic is less crazy than Norwalk.
I love to go in and smell the spices. They have jars of everything that you can open and smell.
Deb
Ah West Hartford I was just there Thursday - well Farmington actually. Had to take a friend to the UConn Medical Center. Man that place is HUGE! Maybe I will venture out that way only about an hour from here.
As the original links to Vella were broken as they've removed the link to them from their website I downloaded the pictures, named them and posted them here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1895.0.html), except for the ones on their oiling with vegtable oil, cocoa, and pepper which are posted in this thread.
John, how did your Goudas ever turn out?
The one I made using this oil to seal the rind (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2344.0.html) was great, albeit too crumbly for a 3.5 month old Gouda.
Since then reading other peoples posts and creating this info page (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Rinds%20-%20Oiled.htm) I should have used less oil and wiped the excess off and re-applied it several times to build up a better rind, applying the oil only once is probably why it dried out.
I have used the cocoa rind before; and in fact just made a Tomme de Coffee with Lavendar. I got the idea fro from a company called Beehive. Pulverized the coffee in a coffee grinder, added a dash of lavendar and mixed with olive oil. Started rubbing after about 6 weeks--it's at about 2.5 months now.
Another necromancer post (raising the dead threads :-) ). Have a look a little way up at those pics of jack cheese with a cocoa and pepper coat. I officially want to do that now :-) Although it is apparently black pepper, I'm thinking that a cayenne pepper might be really amazing. I wonder if the rind really brings any character other than bitterness, though...