Well after 5 years of making my 2nd lot of camembert Im giving it another go. The 1st lot was a failure and the second came out ok I suppose. (I think we ate it all..lol)
Anyway I have removed the cheese from the molds and salted them and they have been sitting in the cheese box on the kitchen bench covered with paper towel and the lid off for about 27 hours.
When I get home tonight I was going to move them to the cheese fridge and remove the paper towel and put the lid on slightly. However they do seem fairly wet and I was considering perhaps keeping them in the garage with the lid off the box for a few more days.
Ambients here are around 13-15C max all week dropping down to 2-5C at night.
So is there a way I can record the weight of the cheese now and keep recording the weights each day and then when I reach a certain % loss I can start to keep the box covered?
You can put the box of cheeses on a scale and then lift up one of the cheeses. The difference in weight is the weight of the cheese. That's how I normally do it.
As for moisture level, it's good to make sure the cheese is not swimming in whey (try to keep the rind *fairly* dry to the touch, but you don't want to dry out the rind either. Normally I just pat dry the cheeses when I turn them every day. It only takes a couple of days before they dry out enough that I don't have to do anything any more.
Thanks for that Mikekchar. Last time I found it was hard to tell what was too wet and what was too dry.
My first lot of cams ended up being too dry. Then my second lot a few years later I think were too wet.
At the moment they are sitting in the garage with the lid slightly off the box and the cheese feels slightly greasy to touch when I turn them over.
When you touch them with your finger should your finger show visible moisture on it? Would that mean they are too wet still?
When you say dont have to do anything any more. Do you mean you dont pat them dry?
Also is there a weight loss % to aim for if Im weighing them that tells me when theyve lost enough weight?' Ive weighed them all individually but not sure how much weight they should lose to tell me they are dry enough?
thanks again.
I had no PC so used a morge. Should I also make another one and spray onto the outside of these cams?
Greasy or tacky is fine at the start. That's just the yeast getting started. After that you should see it bloom in a couple of days. Too wet is when the it looks shiny from whey sitting on the cheese. Once the cheese blooms, the rind will dry by itself. It's not so much that the cheese is losing moisture (it's really not -- I've measured once or twice and only seen a few grams of difference in the first week or so). It's more the humidity around the cheese. Once the mold blooms, it will consume water.
When you say that you are using a morge, what are you putting in it? A morge is brine where you add mold/bacteria to wash or spray onto your cheese. If you aren't adding anything, then it's just a brine. For washed rind cheeses, you can make a morge by starting with brine and washing existing cheeses. The bacteria will end up in the brine, making a morge. Are you using another bloomy rind cheese to start you off? I would not use a morge on a bloomy rind, personally. Instead, just scrape some of the mold off of an existing cheese into your milk. But, if you didn't do that, then making a morge and spraying it on should work OK. I think you only need to spray it once (but I've never done it).
Tonight I turned them over and the tops were tacky but the bottoms were wet. I patted them dry, wiped out the container which had around 3-4 teaspoons of water in the bottom and put the cheese back in the container. The lid is on apart for an inch gap on one side.
To make the morge I brought some camembert and scraped off the outside into a cup. Add some distilled water and mashed it up a bit. Then poured this into my milk as it was heating up. I didn't have any penicllium candidum so did this instead.
Ive new received some PC via the mail. Can/should I put some of this into a more as per th wiki instructions and spray this onto the surface or is what I put in the milk enough to get things started?
Looking good so far. That process should work well. I've done similarly in the past.
So I should spray the sides with the dried PC?
No. I wouldn't. It should bloom fairly soon (in fact, I thought it looked like it was blooming already in your pics, but it's hard to tell).
Ok no worries Ill leave them be.
Last night I closed up the box as they didnt seem as moist as they were the last few days. This morning the box had this fine mist all over it which Im assuming is about right.
But I wasnt 100% certain so Ive cracked the lid just a smidge.
Yep. That's perfect, I think. Make sure to wipe out any condensation every day, or it will get too wet.
No worries will do. I forgot to reply to your comment before but thats not PC i think its just the lighting.
So whats the approximate time that I should start seeing the PC bloom? This cheese was made on Sunday.
If you don't start seeing it in the next couple of days, then you can try spraying it (or you can just spray it now if you want).
I think it might be just starting to appear on the surface now. Ill see how it looks over the next few days.
Ive got Pc growing now but also have dark patch of mould. Should I wipe it off with a cloth?
Yes, I would -- just wash off the dark and leave everything else. Use a 3% w/v brine solution (3 grams of salt in 100 ml of water). It's hard to tell from the picture. It may be mildew (which would mean that your humidity was just a touch too high) or it may be mucor. Mucor would be a bit unlucky as it is likely to spread and give your cheeses a mottled look. Won't really affect anything else, though. If that's the case, you can feel good that your cheeses are authentic as they would have been before 1970 when the industry decided that only white would do ;-). If it is mildew, then it will probably stain the rind, but for a bloomy rind you won't see it anyway. Just in case, I would isolate that one cheese in another box if you can. But they are looking really good so far!
Thanks again Mike. I will give them a wipe and see how it goes. The box is fully covered with a fine mist each day so perhaps I will start leaving the lid cracked open slightly all the time now.
So tonight I patted the mould down and Im not sure if I was too rough or the cheese is too wet as the edges off one of them sort of broke off. It seemed quite moist underneath. This cheese is still being stored in a box in my garage with the lid on and the RH is around 95%. Day temps are still 13-15C and well under 10C at night. Is it maybe too wet? I do have a fine mist covering the lid and sides of the box everyday which I wipe as I turn them?
Also should I now wrap and store them in my house fridge? Or maybe keep the lid off the box and let them dry out for a few days?
Yes, they are very fragile. I've done that myself. The big temperature swings may be a problem because when the temperature drops the humidity will go up. So if it's up over 90% humidity during the day, it will be 100% humidity at night easily. I would move them to the normal fridge now. I have a double cream in my fridge that is stubbornly slow to grow mold on the outside, but it is slowly getting there. You just might have to age it a bit longer is all.
Should I wrap them with cheese foil first or leave them in the container as is? And if I leave them ion the container do I keep the lid cracked and turn them everyday?
Or I was even thinking of maybe putting the container in the salami fridge thats running at 12C and 75%RH?
I'm sure there are many ways to do it, but when I made Camembert-style cheese commercially it aged at a higher temp/humidity for about 7-8 days until the cheeses were completely covered in mold (turned daily, no patting), then wrapped in the correct cheese paper (for aging bloomies) and aged for another 20-30 days at around 45 degrees until soft/ready. No turning during the second aging.
Quote from: Bantams on July 22, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
I'm sure there are many ways to do it, but when I made Camembert-style cheese commercially it aged at a higher temp/humidity for about 7-8 days until the cheeses were completely covered in mold (turned daily, no patting), then wrapped in the correct cheese paper (for aging bloomies) and aged for another 20-30 days at around 45 degrees until soft/ready. No turning during the second aging.
They are at 9 days now but still aren't completely covered with PC, is there enough on them to wrap and put in my regular fridge?
Is this slip skin thats happening? Anything I can do about it?
I would wrap them now - that should minimize the slip skin.
Next time aim for a drier aging environment. Essentially it should be as dry as possible but still enough to allow a full coat of mold by a week. If the edges of the cheese are getting dry then you need more humidity.
Last time I made cams the box was too dry. This time I was getting a small misting on the container lid and sides everyday without it forming droplets. It was around 90% and I had read that was optimal. Now it turns out that was too wet.
Its all very confusing. making beer is so much easier...lol
Thanks for the help, Ill wrap them up.
Problem number 15... >:(
The cheese seems to thick for the cheese wrap. I had a large sheet which your supposed to cut into 1/4s for wrapping 4 cheese. When I filled my hoops I did notice that I had heaps of curds left over. So as the hoops kept draining I kept adding more. In hindsight I probably should have just done this once only after 15 mins.
So to fix this stuff up should I
1. Cover the gaps with tape?
2. Double wrap the cheese
3. waste the wrapping paper and cut bigger squares?
Rewrap with a bigger paper.
That's what I ended up doing. I just had enough.