What happens if you cheddar too long?.... I know the pH drops more, and the moisture decreases.... and those two things together make it harder to knit the curds together.... Our 2nd Cheddar, yesterday, took twice the pressure to knit the curds, compared to our first one.... In fact, it is still in the press for an extra 12 hours at 170 lbs. (7 psi) just to tighten it up a bit more.... However, I feel the make went much better, as we have learned a lot in the 9 months in between.... We used MA 4002 instead of MA 11, and cheddared for 2.5 hrs. instead of 2 hrs., and that was after cooking a bit longer as well.... In addition, instead of cheddaring in the pot, we did so in a perforated tub, with another tub on top with warm water, so this one drained more as well.... The texture of the curds looked great before milling and salting.... I think all these things are good, the only negative so far is the difficulty in getting the curds to knit....
My question is what changes will the longer cheddaring, with additional moisture loss, make in the final cheese, after aging, say, a year?.... The first one, at 6 months, was a bit crumbly, and had a mild cheddar taste.... Can we expect the new one to be sharper?.... How will the ST in the culture change it?.... I know, we'll get what we get, I'm just wondering what you might expect?....
Bob
Basically, it's all about the acidity. For a cheddar you want to drain as much of the whey as you can, so there is literally no downside (that I'm aware of) from that perspective. The longer you cheddar, the more you texture the curd as well. So the proteins stretch slowly and align. This gives you a more rocky paste with a better mouth feel. Potentially it will also help it melt better. Again, no downsides. It's just acidity.
If the texture seems good going into the press, my guess is that it will be good as it ages as well. I've never actually over cheddared a cheddar before, though (I've frequently done the opposite -- mainly because I'm afraid that my wimpy press won't be able to deal with the pressure needed to knit the curds).
In terms of how it may age if it is over acidic... In addition to a more crumbly paste, different enzymes work better at different pHs. So you will probably find that the flavour will be different. That's really the reason why a Gouda using the same culture as a cheddar has a completely different flavour. If you think about a cow's milk feta, that's something that's more acidic. In my mind, it moves away from the cheddar flavours and into more piquant flavours. I don't think it will be bad, really. Just different.
I hope it knits for you!
One thing I have learnt about Cheddars is that there is a balance between pH, salt, moisture, and pressing performance. And its a mistake I've been making for a while until recently. As the final pH drops the more Calcium Phosphate dissolves and is lost as the whey leave the cheese. The end pH should aim for 5.4-5.3 for a Cheddar. For a more crumbly cheese like Caerphilly I take the pH to 4.9-4.8. The more calcium lost will increase the crumbliness of the final cheese. I mill my 'cheddered curds' at slightly above 5.3. Which brings me to salt. The salt slows the culture pH production but it won't stop it altogether. Salt is absorbed through the curd membrane wall and whey leaves the via osmosis and reduces the available culture and slows pH production.
If the pH is too low then the more Calcium is dissolved and as whey leaves the cheese, so does Calcium - though too much too soon will reduce the overall moisture in the cheese. Salt also, firms up the curd membrane. So too much salt will 'Case Harden' the curds. Pressing is designed to remove whey, but also to coalesce the curds. Too much salt will reduce the effectiveness of the pressing action. Which brings to the pressing regime. And something I have learnt that while Cheddar need a good press weight - 7 psi (and that is a lot) for my 160mm mold that is about 100kg (220lbs) and I haven't pressure tested my press that high. Highest ever was 85 kg. This pressing is not applied all together for the the home cheesemaker I achieve reasonable result with 2kg - 30 minutes, 8 kg for 30 minutes, 25 kg for 6 hours and top weight for 12 hours trying to keep the cheese as warm as possible. Makes for a long cheese day.
So, in short
Check your pH as you 'cheddar'
Mill the curds and add salt (2% of the curd mass) at about 5.35. hint - make sure you leave the salt to completely dissolve.
Press gradually starting light - you will actually get more whey out that 'way' than too much too soon. Keep the newly forming cheese warn as you can.
Take notes and adjust - this might be hard this long maturing cheeses but it will be worth it.
Well, that was longer than I intended... if anyone has other information please add to this thread.
8)
There was VERY little whey expressed during pressing, so I guess it must have left during the cheddaring.... We will be taking it out of the press in another hour, and leaving it to dry overnight.... Once the rind is dry enough (maybe tomorrow morning?) we will be waxing it, to be seen again in 6 months.... I will take a photo before we wax it....
Bob
Waxed Cheddar?
Noooooo!
It won't be a cheddar, unless you're going for the supermarket version.
-L
If works for us.... We are having quite good results, IMO.... Our recent Red Leicester is delicious.... ;)
Then again, I have never had a "real" (bandaged) cheddar, so perhaps I don't know what I'm missing.... ::)
Bob
Well, I guess my concerns about over-cheddaring were likely overblown.... The rind closed up just fine at 7 psi.... I did give it an extra 12 hrs. because after the overnight pressing there were just a few spots that weren't 100% closed up, but now it looks great....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Cheddar_270621_Email.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/51b71c5f-e26c-457c-b4e4-d8c7586aae7d/p/c141b657-25f0-46ab-9d8e-2f9f9870a765)
It weighed 1 lb. 15 oz., so the yield was 9.8 %, just about right for a Cheddar.... 8)
Bob
Hold on a sec... Do you mean to tell me Cheddar's really shouldn't be waxed? That's the reason I have not made one yet... I fear the wax!
Cheddars are traditionally "bandaged" with cheesecloth and lard.... The mould forms on the outside of that, and you peel it all off before eating.... All of these methods.... waxing, oiling, bandaging and vacuum bagging.... offer a way to reduce moisture loss in a cheese that you wish to age.... While they are obviously not interchangeable, in that they will change the way the cheese ages, the amount of moisture lost, and the enzymes available (or not).... they do a similar job, just in a different way, and to a different degree.... I don't expect my waxed cheddar to taste the same as one that is bandaged or vacuum bagged.... but as long as it tastes like a Cheddar (and not a Gouda, Havarti, Asiago or Manchego), and I enjoy it, that's all I really care about.... Ease and consistency (and lack of cross-contamination of different moulds/bacteria/yeasts) have a lot of attraction as well....
Bob
If I had a preference listing of those ageing coverings, for a Cheddar from most favorable. While this is opinion only it is based on result of me using all four methods.
1. Cloth Bandaging - as is allows the better gas and moisture control of the aging cheese, the moulds look funky but rarely penetrate the cheese. Check this out https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14913.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14913.0.html) the taste compared to the other three methods is vastly different. True it takes a bit of maintenance.
2. Oiling, has the same advantages as bandaging but, I needed to watch that the oil didn't go rancid. It is a little more work to keep the rind clear of unwanted visitors - Manchego styles do really well using this method.
3. Waxing. This is definitely the easiest though if there is moisture build up it can make the cheese sour. I would recommend a neutral to clear colour so that if mould spots occur under the wax, it is easily spotted. I did try patch removal of wax around a mould incursion but it didn't do so well. Total removal, wiping the cheese down, drying the rind and reapplying is the best method.
4. Vacuum bagging. No chance of moisture or gas passage. Builds up moisture and needs to be re-bagged to remove moisture.
Why am I worried about moisture you ask - my cheese was dry before I bagged it !. Simple.
Your cultures are still active in the cheese as it ages and the main by-products of their activity is Carbon Dioxide, Lactic acid (there is still lactose in the cheese) and water.
Covering options 1 and 2 offer a pathway out of the cheese for these bi-products, 3 and 4 do not unless the covering is removed.
I like the idea of cloth bandaging and oiling. These methods seem rustic. Truthfully, I like rinds be they clothed, dry or oiled, that have molds on them. I think they are really cool looking and I find them fascinating. Nonetheless I do plan to try my hand at waxing, I got a clear wax because I think cheese is beautiful and should be show cased. Especially cheese like pepper jack, a cheese in which the curds have been wine soaked, a sage Derby. etc. I want to see their beautiful colors.
Ozzie, I think you are missing the point of cloth bandaging. Based on other posts of yours, where you mention having to remove a layer of lard AFTER removing the bandaging, that's not cloth bandaging in the traditional sense. If there's that much lard, you're creating a moisture barrier, so it's more akin to to waxing or vacuum bagging.
-L
Lancer99, I'd be interested to hear your idea of the point in cloth bandaging. Every commercial producer I've heard talk about cloth bandaging was at pains to stress that you need a fat that is solid at cellar temps. This is so that the cheese doesn't absorb the fat. They say that you want the fat to provide a moisture barrier, which is the reason for cloth bandaging. It's possible that there is more than one strategy here, so it would be nice to hear another point of view.
what strikes me most about cloth bandaging versus waxing is that the bandaged cheese has a completely different texture- harder drier and with a more balanced flavour. If you try the classic cheddars cut off a wheel like Mull, Keans, Montgomery's and Welsh Hafod, they are in a different realm from waxed cheeses. I suppose it depends what you like but I would give my right arm to be able to produce cheese with that texture. I also suspect that these cheeses mature at considerably lower humidity than you would think. Maybe 70%. This dries them out unlike waxed cheeses which are much softer and moister. One of my first attempts at cheddar in January 21 was bandaged and allowed to mature uncovered in my 'cave' ( a disused sauna with wooden shelves) at around 70% at 13-14C. It is probably the best cheese I have yet made. The texture is spot on.
If you feel like it, try making a cheddar with a natural rind *without* the cloth banding. I think you will probably find it quite similar. As the cheese ages, though, the one without the cloth banding dries out more. It's my understanding that this is what the cloth banding is for. Of course waxed or vacuum packed cheese is going to give you something quite different.
if you were going to mature a cheddar with a natural rind and no cloth what humidity/temperature would you aim for ?
That's a complicated question to answer. Basically 13 C for temp and low enough humidity that blue isn't a problem. However, since I like to start with geotrichum rinds (self seeded by the cave), I often try to start off a little warmer if I can (16 C is my target). Then when the rind is a bit greasy (yeasts colonising the rind), lower the temp down to let the geo grow. The first 3-4 weeks is really just trying to make the rind happy growing geo. I use maturation boxes, so I can fairly easily adjust humidity, although I never measure it directly. Once the succession molds get going in week 4-6, then there really isn't much to worry about. You can actually crank the humidity pretty much as high as you want. As long as water doesn't actually drip on the rind, it will be quite happy. My cheeses basically end up covered with trichothesium of some description (mycodore is in the same family and it may well actually be mycodore). It's rather boring by the time it gets to week 8 -- just a very fine, soft grey/brown rind. After week 12 it barely even needs to be brushed ever. It just sits there.