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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 12:00:44 AM

Title: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 12:00:44 AM
Today is a return to the natural rind short aging, but wonderfully tasty Caerphilly. Attached is the recipe method and I'll be taking photos to post as well.
Just cleaning up and getting all ready. Pity we can't do live streaming! But who would want to listen to a fat 60 something drone on for 5 hours.
Back soon.
Ummm seems the doc didn't attach. I'll add it here later.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 01:04:54 AM
I have named this one White Dog for the hound at my feet. The Geotrichum Cand. is not really needed and was added as just an experiment. G.C. help keep the rind free from other unwanteds - hey you never know I might even get some B.Linens showing up, though my record on that from is not good.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 10:52:58 PM
it was nice to get back to a nice easy cheese with a known recipe.  Attached is the actual make sheet and there are a few changes as I needed to alter the timings to accommodate for a Dentist appointment in the afternoon.
First however there was an error - more like a conversion issue, and that was with the culture.  I had to review my culture work sheet and check the required amount for 10 liters of milk. I'll explain that later but suffice to say my provider of cultures has already portioned packs for 100 Litres of milk. The original sheet accounted for cultures with fillers (usually maltodextrin to keep the cultures viable during transport). The cultures I get are direct from the supplier and are uncut. therefore the culture measurements were not correct on the original sheet.  Corrected to 1/16th teaspoon of both the MO36R and Ma 4001 or (1/8th of either) for 10 Litres of milk.
The different amount of rennet to 2.5 mls of rennet and not worrying about the slight temperature increase helped to get me to the Dentist on time. Also the salting should be 2% but applied in 2 applications of 1% each and allowed to mellow.
This is why I keep lots of notes and so that if this is a good one then I'll make the changes permenant.


   
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 10:59:45 PM
Of Course starting with a clean and uncluttered kitchen - pity it doesn't stay that way. By the tine I finish there is crap from one end of the house to the other.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
This is the subjective thing - the Clean Break. No, I don't put my fingers in the curd. I use the Flocculation point and multiplier to determine when I test for the Clean Break. I do both because milk being milk is never the same and seasonal variations can make or break your cheese. In this case the Flocculation factor was 3 and the gel time was 16 minutes which gives me 48 minutes at which to check.

1. Make a cut in the curd surface.
2. Insert the curd knife behind the cut and;
3. Slowly lift and watch how it separates the edges need to be sharp. note the edge in mine are rounded and therefore I left it for 5 more minutes and tested again to achieve a better curd set. 

You only get one chance to cut the curd so you want to do it at the optimal time. If the liquid that seeps into the cut is cloudy and edges are rounded then, wait.  The edges should be crisp and the liquid clear. Waiting 5 minutes gave the curd set that I like. If you cut it too soon you lose fats to the whey and the curds will not be firm enough to handle. This is true for all cheeses. The curd needs sufficient structure to capture the moisture and fats to make cheese. The other side of the Flocculation story is that don't leave it to long as the curd structure changes constantly and leaving it too long actually creates a curd where the structure is too open and you lose a lot more whey and will actually result in a dry cheese. The Flocculation factor is a good guide to the optimal curd cutting time. But I hear you say Camembert and other soft cheese have a Floc factor of 5 or 6 and they are still moist. Well, yes but they are not cooked at increased temperatures nor stirred for a prolonged period. Even Caerphilly has a pH goal and stir time expected to reach it.

If you can source a copy of the Technology of Cheese making there is a great section on curd formation. It has lots of scientific information but the English that it use to describe the findings is easily readable. It is published by Wiley-Blackwell.

Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 12, 2021, 11:43:25 PM
You can see the first and second cuts in the curd. The second image shows the curd just after the cut and it is still more cloudy than I would have liked and could have waited another 5 minutes. I just had to be really careful at the beginning of the stirring and cooking phase.

Everything else ran to the adjusted timescale nicely and the serendipitous increase in temp to 32 DegC at the beginning helped reach the pH markers nicely.



Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 13, 2021, 12:24:44 AM
The Texturing part of the process is really simple.
Drain the curds at the appropriate time (and pH) in a Colander over the warm whey - I don't actually mind if it sit partially in the whey for 15 minutes. I know is difficult in Winter but try to keep the curds warm throughout the texturing and salting phases as it will definitely help the pressing phase.
Turn out the warm curd mass back in to the cheese vat and cut it into two and place one piece on top of the other. I have my cheese vat back into the larger vat with the warm water. You can see from the image it is already starting to mat. It will spread in the vat but that's ok.
Leave it for 10 minutes and repeat.
Just keep cutting and stacking, every ten minutes for one hour or until a pH of 5.75. Mine took 5 stackings. I measured 5.78 before left for my Dentist visit - thankfully just up the road - and measured 5.68 when I got back.
This is not a Cheddar and the mass will not be as 'Cooked Chicken Breast' so don't expect it. Don't over texture either as you don't want the pH to drop too low.

Mill the curds - and I do it by cutting the mass into strips and breaking it up into pieces as large as my thumb. HINT 1 empty out and whey before you add the salt. Otherwise you will be salting the whey you are going to tip out anyway.

The salting is two applications of 1% of the curd mass - (yes you have to 'whey' it) - HINT 2 this is AFTER the texturing as if you do it before, you are weighing the eventually expelled whey and, will result in an over salted cheese.








Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 13, 2021, 01:08:03 AM
The next is the Pressing routine. This is the make or break point I think where a lot of people make the same mistake. Too much over pressing, especially in the beginning. Ok, so, this is not a Cheddar so therefore we don't need to hang a prime mover off the end pressing arm. The curds are warm and cultures are still dropping the pH albeit more slowly but it's important that it does otherwise the pH will not be in the safety range by the end of the pressing (about 5.3) also too fast again will push whey out too fast and end up with a crumbly cheese. Caerphilly is slightly crumbly but sliceable with a tangy first taste, this will be done by the remaining cultures and moisture. It's a balancing act and so is the next part.
Place the curds in a hard cheese form - this one is a 160mm in Diam. To help prevent the cheese cloth from sticking to the cheese soak it in whey as wring out.

Get some salt ready in a dish, a tablespoon will do.

My press is a dual lever press and it doesn't need a heavy weight initially - I have two settings 10 Times and 12 Times and double pulley system that can get some crazy pressing force. But, we will only need the 10X to start with.
500 mls of water = 500 grams X 10 = 5 Kg and yes I zeroed the scales before adding and weighing the water.

Press at 5Kg for ten minutes.

Remove cheese from the press and Unmold the cheese - CAREFULLY it will be warm and squidgy.
Unwrap the cheese and hand rub the cheese with small amount of salt - important bit - flip the cheese over, rewrap in the cheese cloth and place it back in the press and
Press at 5kg for ten minutes.
You have to move reasonably quickly as you need keep the cheese warm.
--This is not a cut and paste error
Remove cheese from the press and Unmold the cheese - CAREFULLY it will still be warm and a little less squidgy.
Unwrap the cheese and hand rub the cheese with small amount of salt - important bit - flip the cheese over, rewrap in the cheese cloth and place it back in the press and
Press at 7kg (700mls Water) for 25 minutes
and finally
Remove cheese from the press and Unmold the cheese - CAREFULLY it will still be warm and a little less squidgy.
Unwrap the cheese omitting the salt - important bit - flip the cheese over, rewrap in the cheese cloth and place it back in the press and
Press at 15kg for 16-24Hours

Oh and Omit the Brining at the end as the hand salting will be sufficient. 

That is my Caerphilly up until now. It is still in the press and I'll take some shots as I pull it out of the press this afternoon. 


Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 13, 2021, 01:18:43 AM
Sorry last note. To keep the cheese warm in the press I used some of my wife's empty Cakemaking Fondant bucket inside my 12 litre pot and filled the outside with warm water and pressed the cheese inside the fondant bucket. If you know any cakemakers, ask if you can have, buy or trade for their old fondant containers as they are excellent for Brine buckets, pressing buckets and in the smaller sizes excellent cheese forms as they are slightly wider at the top than the bottom and they are food safe to boot. To perforate for a cheese mold, use a hot nail all over - don't drill as it leaves dags in the holes and you don't want to eat plastic.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on July 13, 2021, 04:49:00 AM
The kitchen was needed and  thought that the cheese had been pressing for 22 Hours is enough. Here is the final results. The rind has a few gaps - very small - weighing in at 1.47Kg there is a bit of retained moisture. pH of 5.1 is a little low but not bad.
It is going directly into the 12DegC fridge as the kitchen has a variance during the day of about 10 DegC at the moment as it catches the afternoon westerly sun.

I'll be turning the cheese twice every day for a week and then daily for the remaining time and will be cutting it at 6 weeks.  And, of course, photos of the progress and the revealing.

Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on July 19, 2021, 12:28:33 AM
This is great!  And for the record, I'd be down with watching some old fat guy make cheese for 5 hours. :-0.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on August 10, 2021, 09:25:13 PM
Just a 4 week update. The cheese has been in the 10 DegC and 85-90 % RH for 4 weeks. There are a few really small crackers on the rind but overall is a good looking cheese. Funny thing though, the GC never got going enough to cover the cheese but I am seeing some in the little cracks.
Two weeks to go for the unveiling.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on August 11, 2021, 01:02:15 AM
I made two batches this past weekend and am anxious to try it. Ive never tasted a Caerphilly. What is it like?  Also, I had read it is ready after only 3 weeks.  Do you recommend the longer aging? If so, why?  Thanks!  And a fine looking cheese you have there!
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 11, 2021, 09:42:01 AM
A few years ago I went to the UK and bought as many Caerphilly cheeses as I could find.  I think I hit most of the famous ones.

There are 2 kinds of Caerphilly.  The first is a fairly generic, super market, mild cheddar.  It's usually rindless and sold in vacuum packs.  I believe under PDO rules, it's allowed to be sold as "Caerphilly".  The second kind is known as something like "traditional Welsh Caerphilly" (or something similar -- I always forget the exact wording).  This is similar to a mild cheddar, but it has a natural rind (usually mycodore).  I'll try to describe this as the other is quite uninteresting.

Generally speaking, the cheese is fairly hard and crumbly.  It's more crumbly than an aged cheddar.  Because of the natural rind, the center of the cheese is quite a bit different than the cheese near the rind.  The center tends to be a bit more acidic, while the outside is more smooth.  Even though historically Caerphilly was sold *very* young (sometimes as little as 3 weeks), modern artisanal Caerphilly is sold more in the 2-3 month phase.  Some producers have a slight softening of the paste near the rind, but my experience was that almost all of them were relatively firm all the way to the rind.  I think this is due to this longer aging process that dries out the cheese a bit.  I've seen one producer mention that they tend to wait until the truckle has a "foot" before they sell it (the sides of the cheese bow inwards a little bit and the top and bottom hang out).  This gives you an idea of the moisture level of the cheese.

For me, I found it really an enjoyable cheese.  If you have it in a cheese and pickle sandwich, it just tastes like a nice pleasant cheddar (and I compared it like that to a few medium aged artisinal cheddars).  Eating it out of hand, I think you get a sense of the nice acidic bite, and I really like how there is a gradient of flavours and textures from the rind to the center.  It's something I just can't replicate with my very small cheeses.

It's been a few years now and I'm just waiting for Covid to clear up so I can go to the UK again to refresh my memory.  Apologies if any of this is incorrect as my brain may be addled ;-)
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on August 11, 2021, 05:55:44 PM
This is great info.  As I said I made two cheeses this weekend following Gavin's video.  The first cheese I tried using the milk from a nearby dairy.  They say their milk is very gently pasteurized ~145 for 20 minutes or something like that.  I've tried this milk a few times and the curds have always been fragile but I thought I would try again. Alas, I had the same issue.  My curds were way small so I fear the cheese will be a bit dry.  It did knit together but the air drying phase I shortened a bit because the exterior was so dry already.  (AFter pressing the cheese was 2lbs)

The second cheese I used a 1 gallon flash Pasteurized 1 gallon raw milk combo.  I have had great success with this combination.  This time, the curds looked very much like what Gavin had.  After pressing the cheese was 2lb 7oz!  I'm not surprised.

I bought a pH meter but it is cheap and I do not trust the reading as they do not make any sense.  I also tried pH strips and the color never really changes unless it's very acid or very basic.  Not sure I want to invest in a good ph Meter.  I have been trying to pay more attention to the taste of the curds and the whey.  I feel as if the whey did start to get a bit of a tang but it was very salty so the taste may have been disguised.

I plan on trying them at 3 weeks.  After I cut them, can I wax the remainder?  I think yes, but then the cheese will have wax over rindless cheese face and the rest wax over the developed rind.  I guess I should let that face air dry a bit..  no?

Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 11, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
I have a lot of problems with Gavin's recipe.  It makes very little sense to me.  I'll jot them down here since I keep meaning to do that...

First, he's got 1 tsp (5 ml) of 200 IMCU/ml rennet for 10 liters of milk.  That's 1000 IMCU / 10 liters or 100 IMCU per liter.  Normal is about 40 IMCU per liter. He admits this is twice as much as he would normally add, but says nothing about *why* he's adding that much rennet.  I can't see any way this isn't just going to cause problems.

His cultures are weird too.  I mean, it's fine, but why MA4001 *and* M030?  Adding LL and LC twice...  And of course, it *isn't* M030 when he's using it, it's Mad Millie...  So, one sachet of Mad Millie, which is normally enough for 4 liters of milk (but it's Mad Millie who thinks that 60 IMCU is enough rennet for 4 liters of milk, so who knows...) 1/8th of a tsp of MA4001...  (rant: Volume measurements for something that's powdered... i.e. he want's completely random amounts of culture...)  Anyway, NEC says 1/2 tsp for 6-12 gallons (i.e. don't measure it this way because you'll get potentially half or twice as much as you wanted).  But 1/8th tsp is enough for 2-4 liters.  So his total culture is about 60-80% of normal.  He ripens for 30 minutes, so we're at a pretty high pH when adding then rennet.

Even at the high pH, with 100 IMCU per liter of rennet, this is going to set *quickly*.  I can't imagine it will flocculate more slowly than 10 minutes, which means that his 40 minute total set time is a 4x multiplier.  Of course it wasn't firm enough for him, so he waits another 10 minutes.  But what the heck was wrong with that break????  I mean, it's absolutely straight edges.  It's flowing clear whey.  What the heck is he looking for???  I mean intentionally adding twice as much rennet and then intentionally letting it sit until the curd rips.   Is there method to his madness?

Then he's stirring for 40 minutes while he raises the temp from 32 C to 33 C.  Yes.  One. Whole. Degree.  WTH?  But even if we just say he isn't cooking it (which is basically true), why not?  There are a couple of problems here.  First, it's going to potentially retain whey.  Granted, he's allowed the curd to firm to the point where the curd rips when cutting and so it will be draining whey faster.  So... maybe that's why???

I've got to stress that the drain is at 30 + 50 + 40 + 5 minutes = 125 minutes at 32-33 C, with 60-80% of the normal amount of culture.  He's going to be coming out at about a pH of 6.4 or 6.5, rather than the 6.1 or so you would normally want to aim for.

He drains into a slab for 10 minutes total and cheddars for 20 minutes.  30 minutes total.  So the whey hasn't had a chance to totally drain from the cheese.  We're at a pH of something well north of 6.  And... it's time to mill the curds???  His idea of "thumbnail size" is pretty strange, but to be fair he *has* to mill it that small or else he's going to be making something that resembles a crescenza. 

Time for the salt.  Again volume measurements for powders because we *like* adding random amounts of ingredients.  That's a whack of salt, though, no matter how you measure it. Caldwell actually adds a very small amount of salt at this stage so that the cheese will acidify slowly as it is pressing.  As he's adding the curds to the basket, you can see that they have all stuck together.  His tiny, baby thumbnail chunks have turned into finger sized chunks.  This is a very good indication that the pH is indeed greater than 6.

Stick it into the press and right away 5kg of weight, just to lock in those juices.  You can see a good 100 ml of whey sploosh out in the first 3 seconds.  The saving grace is that he *has* drained it for 30 minutes and added salt, so it's not crazy to add some weight.  Not that amount of weight, but a little would be fine.  He mostly gets away with it, though.  And, of course, more random amounts of salt when flipping each time.

Now, I have to admit to being a bit perplexed by the cracks in the cheese on the first flip.  At that pH and moisture level, I would really expect to instantly close the rind.  So while I'm being very flippant in my remarks, there is probably something going on there that I don't quite understand.  Possibly it is acidifying faster than I'm expecting.  Every time he talks about Caerphilly he's at pains to point out that it is known for being a very salty cheese.  This is completely incorrect.  I think he's confused because miners used to eat it to help with their salt levels in the mine.  But almost all cheese has a fairly high level of salt.  If you are eating 100 grams of cheese, you are getting quite a lot of salt.  But I wonder if his buckets of salt are what are drying out the curd to a certain extent.

When he opens the cheese, it's a mess.  "There's a fair amount of cracking, but that's typical of Caerphilly.  I've found that before".  That's the initial over pressing.  Really, really classic.  The paste is *way* too soft and springy.  Whey Caerphilly *is* crumbly, it's not crumbly in the way that his is.  Again, that's from whey being trapped and refermenting.   I think the springiness actually comes from draining at such a high pH.  I was reading some comments from linuxboy about Beaufort and that the development of the protein really requires draining at a very high pH.

Anyway, as a Caerphilly, it's a total failure.  As a yummy cheese, it looks yummy.  I realise this is a fairly negative post, but I hope some people find it useful.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on August 12, 2021, 01:46:24 AM
Hmmmm....  I did think that was a crazy amount of rennet.  I used slightly less but still a lot.  I also thought that was a lot of salt.. but That's what I used.  We'll see.  I am hoping that most left with the whey.  We'll see.

As for the culture, I used MA4002 and C101.  I decided on the C101 when I saw it was used in Wensleydale.  I didnt think it was a crazy amount of culture, since some recipes (cotswold) call for a full packet of C101 for 8 its.  Ive never had cotswold either but the make seemed a little similar.

As for the temp increase. Yeah, I thought that was insane.    I stirred for 10minutes then raised to 93-95 over ~30 minutes.

   My curds did not close right away.. it took the full amount of time.  We'll see how my two batches turn out in about three weeks.  After reading your comments Now, I guess I will make the Caerphilly in the 200 cheese book..  I need to see how that recipe alters the result.

As I said I have never had Caerphilly so I have no idea what it's supposed to taste, smell or look like. 

I decide to try Gavins recipe because his make for Bel Paese was my first successful cheese and it was awesome. :-)
I'll definitely be showing pics and sharing comments on the Caerphilly in a few weeks.    :-)

Since now I know, thanks to the information you presented, that Caerphilly is NOT a salty cheese I am a bit worried.
Darn.  I hope I haven't blown 4 pounds of cheese!

I'll try it again.  :-)
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 12, 2021, 03:47:31 AM
Gavin's recipes tend to be yummy, even if they are strange.  Bel Paese is a good example.  I think that's a really good recipe, actually.  But I don't think you are likely to make something similar to Bel Paese  ;D
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on August 12, 2021, 07:02:26 AM
@mikekchar
You do bring up a few - well quite a few - good points and questions. I don't pretend to be in Gavin's mind, maybe you should ask him directly. He's a nice chap and will reply. My original Caerphilly was made using a recipe in "Making Artisan Cheese" by Tim Smith and if I remember it - was quite a few years ago that his timings were quite good and the cheese was pretty good if I remember.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on August 12, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
My make sheet has the timing and quantities that I use but the bottom of the sheet has these.
Texturing:  This helps to drain the whey and increase the pH of the curd mass.  Drain for 15 minutes into a colander lined with Cheese cloth. While still in the colander maintain the 34 C temperature by covering the curd mass with a clean lid or tea towel.  After draining, return the drained curd mass to the pot, cut the mass into 2-3 slabs and stack on one another. Change the stack every 10 minutes. Caldwell's description is vague here so I'm going to slice and stack much like a Cheddar.
Temperature:  Caerphilly has a small cooking temperature rise about 3-4O C (6-8 OF).  Don't fret if it sneaks a bit past but the point is the slow rise and then keeping it there.
Pressing:  try to keep as warn as possible. Summer is ok but winter, going to try to press inside a double vat setup to keep it warm.
10 minutes 5kg (10lbs). Remove from the mould remove the cheesecloth turn cheese and re-dress- Work fast as the curd mass will be very fragile at this stage. The Secret is --- don't expect a cheddar 'cos it's not.
10 minutes 5kg (10lbs). As above.
25 minutes 7kg (15lb). Repeat as above. Keep as warm as possible.
Unmould and salt the outside of the cheese, redress and press again 15Kg (~35 lbs) for 16-24 Hours – Goal pH is 5.3 at this stage.
Caerphilly does have a slightly open texture and the press should just make the rind close and there should still be clear whey dribbling out.  Don't over press this one as the cheese cultures are still producing lactic acid. This is best eaten at 6 weeks it will have a nice tangy taste and after 8 weeks it mellows out.

and this is from quite a few years making it.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 12, 2021, 09:32:29 AM
I went back to look at your recipe again Mal, and I like it quite a lot (which doesn't surprise me one bit).  For me, I think the secret is that you want to cheddar at a higher than normal pH, mill and salt lightly, then press allowing it to acidify in the press.  This lets you do a "mostly cheddar" with a very much weaker press than you would need for a real cheddar.

Yeah, I should probably get in touch with Gavin.  I think I have a bit of OCD kicking in when I see recipes like that and I can't stop from saying something.  Contacting the author (which should be my first course of action) is hard for me to do :-(.  But if you're gunna complain, you shouldn't do it behind people's backs...
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on August 12, 2021, 10:58:07 AM
Interestingly, I found -  https://blog.cheesemaking.com/caerphilly-almost-instant-gratification/. which uses Gavin's older recipe.  That link is a NE cheesemaking type link.  This gives me a bit more confidence in Gavin's recipe if they would cite and use it. 

Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: broombank on August 12, 2021, 03:50:04 PM
I find the expensive ph sticks with a 4-7 range made in Germany at around £20 ($26) for 100 to be very useful. (The cheap ones from eBay are useless) Under a good light the colour changes are reliable and allow me to make changes ( like shredding curd or salting ) at the correct ph level. I think I feel like you do that unless I invest a sizeable amount of money in a really good ph meter and can put up with the constant need for calibration,  I would rather rely on the sticks. I can try to calibrate my palate instead but its all a bit too vague.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on August 12, 2021, 04:19:28 PM
I think there might be a bit of confusion in the rennet strength and I use the same rennet as Gavin, as we get it from The same place. The concentration is 200 IMCU. So it doesn't matter if you add 1 or 5 mls it is  same concentration it is diluted when you add it to the milk. So, 1 ml would be diluted in 10 litres and diluted, but it is still 200 IMCU. Which by the way is single strength rennet.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 13, 2021, 01:49:02 AM
Yes, the rennet is rated by IMCU per ml.  So if you have 200 IMCU per ml and you have 1 ml, then you have 200 IMCU.  If you have 5 ml, then you have 1000 IMCU.

However, IMCU (International Milk Clotting Units) are defined by the amount of milk it clots at a certain temperature, pH in a certain amount of time.  The actual standard is a bit complicated (and there are several methods for defining it), but basically 40 IMCU will clot 1 liter of milk at 36 C, at a pH of 6.6 in 36 minutes (I think... I often forget the details and the actual standard is not available unless you pay stupid amounts of money).  "Clot" here means get to a "clean break", which is essentially a multiplier of 3.0.  Another way to put it is that 40 IMCU of rennet in 1 liter of milk at 36 C and 6.6 pH will normally have a flocculation time of 12 minutes.

If you have 10 liters of milk, then you will need 400 IMCU to have a 12 minute flocculation time at 36 C.  With 200 IMCU per ml rennet (the definition of "single strength" rennet), that's 2 ml of rennet.  The more rennet you add, the faster it will flocculate.  It's not linear, though.  So if you add 800 IMCU (4 ml of single strength rennet), it doesn't flocculate in 6 minutes, for example.  I'm not sure how fast it would be, but probably somewhere on the order of 8-10 minutes.   If you add less (say 200 IMCU), then it will be slower -- and it *is* pretty near twice the time in my experience.  About 25 minutes.  But again, it's not really a linear thing.  You have to experiment to see how it goes.  If you add a quarter (100 IMCU), which is what you would normally do for a semi-lactic cheese, you actually have to wait until the pH of the milk drops to about 5.3 before the rennet works fast enough to set a curd.  This normally takes several hours.

Generally speaking, as long as you have good milk, enough calcium and enough rennet, your curd will set.  The concentration of rennet (in terms of IMCU per liter of milk) only really affects the speed that the rennet will work (in my experience).  Of course, excess rennet will remain in the cheese and continue to break down the casein over time, which can add bitter peptides to the cheese.  So there is also a maximum amount that you want to add.  Adding more than that can make the cheese bitter.  And, of course, the speed the rennet is acting affects the texture of the cheese as it is cooking and draining as well.  Possibly this is why Gavin's recipe does not knit as well as I would expect even though the pH is very high (I've never used that concentration of rennet before, so it's hard for me to say).

TL;DR: More rennet means faster coagulation.  40 IMCU per liter of milk (0.2 ml of single strength rennet per liter of milk) gives you a flocculation time of 12 minutes at the normal pH that milk is at after ripening.  This gives you a normal curd set in 36 minutes with good milk (i.e. raw milk).

As an aside: Why is single strength rennet set at "200 IMCU per ml"?  200 seems like a weird number to choose.  I *think* this is because 5 ml is 1 tsp.  That gives you 1000 IMCU.  1000 IMCU (1 tsp) is enough to coagulate 25 liters of milk, which is just over 5 imperial gallons.  My understanding is that the standard measurement technique for IMCU was developed independently by both British and German researchers and I think the standard was picked to accommodate both cultures.  Apparently it says in the standard why that value was chosen, but... stupid amounts of money.  I'm curious, but not *that* curious...
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: momo on August 13, 2021, 02:47:28 PM
Mal - I appreciate your description of your process, + recipe and photos. Could you give more detail about your stockpot setup - what size are your 2 pots, do you use something to raise up the inner pot, etc?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: bansidhe on August 15, 2021, 08:20:39 PM
I don't know where to find non-homogenized pasteurized milk here.  How might things change for me when I make this cheese? Is there anythngn I should do differently to ensure a better results?
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: mikekchar on August 15, 2021, 11:12:40 PM
I've been experimenting with that recently and actually a few months ago I made a Caerphilly with homogenised milk (still haven't eaten it -- it's getting pretty well aged...)  The main thing is that with homogenised milk, the curds tend to "shatter".  Before you know it, you have essentially curd dust instead of curds.  They also retain moisture more.  So I've been experimenting with cutting 5 cm (2 in) columns in the curd at a multiplier of about 2.0-2.5, then waiting until one would normally cut, cutting it like normal, *then* for the next 15 minutes only stirring to keep the curds from matting.  The technique I do is simply, very  slowly transport the curds from the bottom of the pot to the top.  Then wait about 5 minutes and do it again.  After that 15 minutes, switch to stirring with your hand rather than a spoon.  Use your fingers to tease apart the curds, but otherwise be very gentle.  Again, you may want to stir for a minute, rest for a minute for almost the entire duration.

Once you drain, the curds act reasonably normally and you can cheddar as normal.  I find that the texture of the curd feels a bit "gritty".  I'm not sure how to explain it.  It's not as smooth and gel-like as using unhomogenised milk.  However, it doesn't seem to affect the final cheese in the end (I can't tell the difference in texture after aging it for a week or so).  Probably as the proteins break down during aging, it ends up pretty much the same.  I made my "Tomme that cracked" the same way and it was a phenomenal cheese (IMHO, though it was over-moist).

With that said, homogenised milk seems to hold on to fat better (it's wrapped around the proteins rather than just being caught in the spaces of the gel) and so the resultant cheese tends to have a higher yield with more fat.  I'm thinking that cheeses without much stirring will actually work better with homogenised milk.  However I made a camembert a while ago and I would have to call it a failure.  The curd never really came together the way I was expecting and the cheese had gaps, which was super weird.  I was using a completely different technique, though, and it might have been due to that.
Title: Re: Caerphilly comeback
Post by: OzzieCheese on August 22, 2021, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: momo on August 13, 2021, 02:47:28 PM
Mal - I appreciate your description of your process, + recipe and photos. Could you give more detail about your stockpot setup - what size are your 2 pots, do you use something to raise up the inner pot, etc?  Thanks!

My pots are a 12litre stockpot sitting in 16 litre one of the same brand. The handles of the small pot sits on the rim of the larger one. It keeps the smaller one from hitting the bottom and therefore keeps a complete water jacket around the milk. I monitor the water temp in the larger one and found that accurate temperature control is very easy. During the initial heating, I try for a 2 degree C differential  between the the milk and the water and remove them from the heat just before the target temp is reached. The Thermal load in the water will be sufficient to continue to raise the milk temperature.
If you find the milk temperature rising too quickly you can lift the smaller one out and remove water from the large one and add cooler water to the larger pot to bring the thermal difference back down. After all you are not wanting to heat the milk as fast as possible but gently over time.