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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => EQUIPMENT - Forming Cheese => Topic started by: Cheese Head on August 29, 2009, 09:17:46 PM

Title: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on August 29, 2009, 09:17:46 PM
In one of member DeejayDebi's posts I noticed that she mentioned that she had accidentally ordered four rather than two 1.5-2 kg Gouda Shaped Kadova molds and asked member Wayne if he wanted to buy them off her.

I immediately asked Debi that If Wayne doesn't go for them then I'd take them, lucky me, he went for his huge stainless steel mold for his monster cheddar and I was lucky second, pictures below. I just put one into service yesterday (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1939.0.html).

There is another thread on Kadova Brand molds (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,530.0.html) started by Wayne when he first got 1.0 kg Kadova Molds, it has some great info on volumes etc but got off track so this new thread.

First impressions are great, just simplifies pressed cheese type's making stage vs my old self made cheesecloth, PVC hoops, and cut cutting board base and follower. Simplifies as just dump curds in and press, no pulling of cheese cloth, easier to turn during pressing, no square shoulder edge from my old cylindrical shaped pressed cheeses so probably better for waxing or natural rinds, and I put the parts into the dishwasher for simple cleaning. They didn't come with any guide from where Debi bought them and I can't find anything on the manufacturers website, thus this topic.

MANUFACTURER INFO

VOLUMES

USING

CLEANING

Anyone have more information, best practices, tips and traps?
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on August 29, 2009, 11:39:55 PM
great topic.
this was exactly what lead me to this forum:)
i wanted to learn what's so great about the kadova molds and how to use them that would justify their high price.
i like the shape the cheese get. but is that all?
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: wharris on August 30, 2009, 12:09:49 AM
I think that these moulds are fantastic.

To me they make life a lot easier when it comes to curd pressing.  And they make the cheese look very professional. Which is great when you are showing folks your wares.

These moulds really do give wheels of cheese a lot of instant visual appeal for very little effort.

But I am not sure how practical they end up being. When it comes time to actually use the cheese I end up wishing the block was rectangular.

Anyway, I am still holding out for the 10kg one fom here (http://glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/wax.htm).


Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on August 30, 2009, 01:20:39 AM
how do you clean the netting?
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: wharris on August 30, 2009, 01:26:08 AM
The netting itself is extremely fine, yet stiff, and it is not at all difficult to clean.  My netting is in the form of a removable liner that you can see here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,530.msg2778.html#msg2778).

I simply put the separate pieces in the dishwasher.  But I could just as easy wash by hand with soap and hot water.

The more i look at John's the more I really want to pull the triger on some bigger ones.

Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: sominus on August 30, 2009, 02:53:17 AM
Has anyone got any experience with the "W49" Kadova-lookalike molds from Glengarry?  These are similar to the Kadova molds but, as Glengarry says, use cheese cloth and are suitable for hobbyists.

-Michael
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: FRANCOIS on August 30, 2009, 03:51:25 AM
I prefer the cloth molds over the kadovas.  If the kadovas are new and clean, they work great.  They start to stretch over time and I get really tired of pulling the lid liners off.  Even with a commercial caustic/acid/rinse, they still don't get clean sometimes.  Plus if the curd is slightly off it tends to weep through the nets more than cloth and is more difficult to remove without damaging the rind.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: riha on August 30, 2009, 07:52:59 AM
Anybody got an idea of the maximum pressure these molds can take? Can they be used to make cheddar, which I have understood takes very high pressure?
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: FRANCOIS on August 30, 2009, 10:10:30 AM
We press them at 25 psi all day long.  I'm sure some have mistakenly been pressed up to 85 psi (pre-press), which might be a bit much.  The problem is stretching the nets.  The molds will take cheddar pressure, but the nets will stretch over time and start causing wrinkles etc.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 30, 2009, 03:04:21 PM
I have made cheddar in my 450 gram and 1 kg molds but I am not a heavy presser. I use lighter pressurers for longer periods to get the same effect. I also like to press in the whey for many cheeses to avoid air pockets (mechanical holes) in the cheese.

I also have the Tallego mold but it does not have the netting it's just a big square.

I don't have a dishwasher so I can't say how that works. I imagine after hundreds of uses the netting would stretch some but for the home user that would take years. I am very impressed with thesemolds and can imagine going back to fussing with linens.

Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on August 30, 2009, 04:37:38 PM
Quote from: FRANCOIS on August 30, 2009, 10:10:30 AM
We press them at 25 psi all day long.  I'm sure some have mistakenly been pressed up to 85 psi (pre-press), which might be a bit much.  The problem is stretching the nets.  The molds will take cheddar pressure, but the nets will stretch over time and start causing wrinkles etc.

Francois is that the pneumatic (air) pressure you are using of actual applied pressure? My new 1.5-2.0 kg molds are 180 mm/7 inch diameter, thus area is 3.14*3.5*3.5 = 38.5 in2, x 25 psi = 961 pounds weight, I'd have thought that that would buckle them, at least the ring at the top!
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 30, 2009, 04:41:56 PM
I know they are tough but I don't think they are that tough!
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: FRANCOIS on August 30, 2009, 07:43:56 PM
Upon reflection, I press the 1kgs at 70 psi for a pre-press all the time.  It's 70 on the gauge at the air cylinder, which I'm pretty sure exactly translates to applied pressure on the mold. 

I had some 1kgs in a cheddar press a few weeks back and accidently pressed them at 8 bar before I could reset the pressure, that's like 120 psi.  They are perfectly fine.

The force is applied slowly and uniformly in compression so it's not like we are trying to hand a VW off the edge of a lid.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 30, 2009, 08:28:20 PM
Maybe it's the circular design.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Zoey on September 03, 2009, 01:02:59 PM

Am wondering about the Kadova volume issue. So John's saying that the 1kg version holds 1kg only just. And my 10-liter batch usually exceeds 1kg, but not by enough to bring it into the 1,5kg size.

The 1,5-2 kg size is the next one, right?

So does anyone have experience on the minimum side of the 1,5-2kg mold, would it be completely crazy to try using it for 10-liter batches?

I wouldnt wanna go down in batch sizes since I want to go up. But I don't see that I could get any bigger milk-container equipment any time soon...
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on September 03, 2009, 09:08:23 PM
Zoey, it was actually member Wayne in another thread linked in OP who said that he could barely get 1kg cheeses out of a 1 kg gouda shaped mold.

I'd guesstimate that your average batch yields 1.2 kg, so it looks like you are right, the 1.0 kg is too small and my 1.5-2 kg is maybe too big. I think Debi is best one to answer as I think she just made a small batch with them.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 03, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
Zoey I have put as little as 3.2 lbs in the 1.5-2.0 kg molds. In fact I have done it every time but the first time. The bigger 6.6kg cheese did not fit well in my mini cave with all the other cheeses so I cut it in half.
This was a 7 gallon batch of Montasio which was about 3 kg each.


edited the post I accidently posted 3.2 kg instead of US pounds Sorry! Thanks John!
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on September 05, 2009, 05:42:44 PM
Hi Debi

I think you meant that you made a 6.6 lb (3 kg) batch from 7 US gallons (26.6 liters) of milk that you subsequently cut in half.

Wow! You managed to stuff curds resulting in 3kg worth of cheese into a 2kg mold, great job. Thanks for the info as I have the same molds, it gives me an idea of how far I can go.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 06, 2009, 12:51:52 AM
I put 6.6 pounds of cheese in two molds or 3.3 pounds each.

I just checked my notes again today and the left over munster curd I threw in the kadova mold when I ran out of square ones was only 2.25 pounds or 1 kg. So that was the smallest I've pressed it the 1.5 kg molds so far.


Do you weigh your cheese wet or dry? I weigh them after about a week.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 06, 2009, 04:35:13 AM
Hoops, in general, are specified on the final cheese weight.  So a 1 kg mold will yield a 1 kg wheel after dehooping and salting.  For example we run a lot of 20 kg hoops, but actually put in 34-38kg of curd.  The final block is 20 kg (give or take).
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 06, 2009, 04:02:44 PM
okay I think I've confused everyone here. I thought I was trying to find the smallest cheese I made in the molds for Zoey.

The smallest I have presed was about 3,2 pounds of wet curds.
The biggest I have done is about 6.6 pounds of wet curds.

Wet meaning right out of the vat not yet drained. Is that more clear? I have quit weighing wet cheese I'd rather weigh after a few months then I know what I have to eat!  ;D
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on September 11, 2009, 05:00:13 PM
most of the time i use 3 to 4 gallon of goats milk. this is a very rich milk with high protein and fat content. i would need at least a 2 kg kadova mold to fit the curds. i only see 1 kg or 3 kg at glengarry, new england or cheese dairy.
where did you get your two kg mold?
i have never weighted the wet curds yet. but from 4 gallon milk i get a cheese after pressing and salting of a bit over 2 kg. i should weight after aging but for some reason somebody cuts into it before i even think about it ;)
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on September 11, 2009, 08:08:59 PM
susanne, member DeejayDebi special ordered the 1.5-2.0 kg Kadova molds through Glengarry in Canada/USA, where she says is the best price for them. Debi accidentally ordered four rather than two she wanted and thus resold two to me.

On my OP there is a link to a supplier C. van 't Riet with Kadova mold dimensional data, it lists the 1.5-2.0 kg round Gouda shape hoops pictured in that OP.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 11:06:01 PM
Susanne -

Glengarry ordered them for me but I ordered them in May and they arrived in July so don't be in a hurry!

I did just order 1.5 gram edam molds from From Servi Doryl for only $27 I think they had similar ones also. They don't have the built in liners though you'll have to use cheese cloth.

I am curious to see if the plastic cheese cloth I bought from glangarry will work as well in these molds as the kadova with the built in liners for nice smooth cheeses.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on September 12, 2009, 02:11:44 AM
i have the plastic cheese cloth from glengarry and have not used it much because of the stiffness.
the only thing with cheese cloth i see is all the fold marks on the cheese rind. i can imagine with the built in netting with the kadova mold it will make a really smooth rind ;)
i went to  the C. van 't Riet  website and wondering if they would send only one mold? 
i also like the wooden mold. has somebody here experience with it? how easy to keep it sanitized after use?
debi if i would have been earlier on this great forum, i would have bought one too from you.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 12, 2009, 02:19:19 AM
Sorry hon but you can still order one from Glengarry you just have to wait. Unless she ordered extra when she ordered mine?

The plastic cheese cloth I bough it about as flexible as two thicknesses of saran wrap especially when warm. I used it in my tallegio mold when I made Mahon last week. It's amazinglt strong yet flexible. Cleans reallty easy too. Just rinse in water and the curds fall off. Even that sticky crottin cheese goo rinsed right off. I am hoping with the round molds it will strtch enough to shape cleanly.

OOOooooOOO??? Wooden molds? I didn't see those ... uh oh .... ::)
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Zoey on September 15, 2009, 11:06:49 AM

I also need wooden molds. :)
(well, not sure if "need" is the right word there...)

So I emailed C. van 't Riet in Europe (rietdairy.nl) which seems to be connected to the link in USA which John posted. So we'll see soon, whether or not they're interested in my hobby cheesemaker order (I'll let you know).
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on September 15, 2009, 09:00:41 PM
debi look here
http://www.schuller.us/Moulds.html (http://www.schuller.us/Moulds.html)
aren't they nice ;)

zoey i'm very interested to hear what you will find out
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
They are gorgeious! I don't think I have room for any more molds unless I start packing them in my bed. Hmmm I am kind of short and there is alot of space down by my feet ...  ::)

You guys are a BAD influence on me! I got by with 2 little PVC and 2 bigger stainless steel molds for almost 30 years and now all these plastic ones keep showing up on my doorstep!   :o
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Tea on September 15, 2009, 09:57:48 PM
I don't know Deb, I wouldn't mind one of those wooden moulds showing up at my door.  They're just beautiful.

Anyone email them for size and prices yet?  Thinking I might find out about them.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 11:00:36 PM
I have emailed them before and never heard back when I was looking for my first kadova mold.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on September 15, 2009, 11:59:57 PM
Quote from: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Hmmm I am kind of short and there is alot of space down by my feet ...  ::)


might make for a good aromatic cheese LOL

i'm short too but my feed reach to the ground ;)
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 16, 2009, 12:11:45 AM
Yeah most of me reaches the ground it's the kitchen cabinets or the bottom of the freezer I have a problem with!  :D
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Zoey on September 16, 2009, 06:39:41 AM

I got a reply back from rietdairy.nl. Here's what they wrote:

"We do sell moulds all over the world, in case you need materials, please inform us. "

They don't mention anything about private hobbyist orders, which is what I asked about, but since I got this answer, I assume they will deliver my order.

I sent an email back to them asking for wooden mold sizes (or did someone find them on the website?)

I'm thinking there's about a 50% chance I'll make an order. So anyone in Finland wishing to make a group order, now's the time to react. (If I become 100% sure, I'll post something to the geographic board).
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 01:48:50 PM
i would love the woden mold too. i think if they have the small one for 1kg, that would be nice. if i can get only the one for two kg, would be nice too ;)
unfortunately, i'm not in finland :(
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 04:01:52 AM
I am pleased to report that this afternoon while making Havarti I managed to just barely with some squeezing fit curds from 6 US gallons of store bought past & homogenized whole cow's milk into my new 1.5-2.0 kg Kadova Gouda shaped molds! Weighed the cheese after pressing tonight before brining at 2.75 kg/6.05 lb, 37% above the rated 2.0 kg. Records and pictures posted here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2130.0.html).

For finer cut curd and thus lower moisture style cheeses like Parmesan I expect you could push it higher.
Title: Re: Kadova Brand Molds - Best Practices
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 20, 2009, 04:11:28 AM
That's why I thought they were the 3kg molds. I got a whole 7 gallons in one mold. They usually hold less than rated not more. I would imagine you would be able to squish more in than I could just beased on strength and height (leverage).

I love those guys! I don't even use the little ones anymore. Although I may for presents.  BTW the fromagx molds don't even come close. I will post my findings.