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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => EQUIPMENT - Aging Cheese, Everything Except Caves => Topic started by: hplace on September 02, 2009, 06:54:36 AM

Title: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on September 02, 2009, 06:54:36 AM
I have a hand-held battery-operated vacuum sealer that uses special bags with a round valve on the corner where the air is sucked out. The largest bags I can find for it are one gallon size. In order to vacuum seal an 8 pound wheel of cheese, I have to cut it in half. So I went back to waxing. Is there some other system of vacuum packing that allows for larger size bags? For me, the waxing has worked out very well. Very few wheels end up with mold under the wax and the 5 pound blocks of wax on cheesemaking.com for $20 plus shipping will wax a lot of cheese.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on September 10, 2009, 11:48:04 AM
With the Foodsaver vacuum sealers you can get a roll of plastic and cut the bags to the size you desire. See http://www.foodsaver.com/ (http://www.foodsaver.com/)

I have had one for a few years now and no problems. Not cheap but far less than the commercial vacuum sealing machines.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on September 10, 2009, 03:17:08 PM
That's great news! I would much rather vacuum seal than deal with the wax. I will check into foodsaver.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 12:51:09 AM
You can also buy really large rolls  50 feet long on eBay cheaper than small rolls at the grocery store or WalMart.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 11, 2009, 03:15:13 AM
I've seen those on E-bay. My "normal" roll is just 18'. Will the 50 footers actually fit into a Foodsaver???
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 03:23:50 AM
It won't fit in that little pocket, but I pre cut the bags first anyway and just set it aside.

I seal the bags in two directions to make Vacpak TV dinners for quick meals. I do most of my cooking on weekends in the smoker and just portion the foodsaver bags. Then everyone can have whatever they want pretty uch when they want it and I get to rest a bit after work. They microwave well if you just poke a tiny hole in each section and they make great lunchs for work.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 03:25:03 AM
PS - make sure you measure the width of your sealer machine some will only take up to 8 inch wide bags and others up to 11 or 15 inch bags.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on September 11, 2009, 01:12:54 PM
Good point - an you want at least the 11 inch wide capability  if you are talking 4 and 5 pound cheeses...
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 11:25:19 PM
Right! Spend the extra few dollars for the wider machine or you will regret it quickly.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on September 13, 2009, 05:13:40 PM
The machines on foodsaver.com don't seem to indicate how wide they are, but most of them come with 11" rolls or bags, so I assume they are all 11" wide at least. Is there a particular model that is better than another? Looks like the least expensive one is the V2060 model for $79: http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&cid=87&pid=248 (http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&cid=87&pid=248)

It comes with one 11" x 10' roll. Any reason not to go with this model?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: wharris on September 13, 2009, 05:16:14 PM
That looks like what i have...
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Terfst on September 13, 2009, 06:57:05 PM

My foodsaver cost over $100.00 was great for the first month of constant using but when I stored it with the lid closed I discovered upon opening it up the plastic strip on the top came loose. It is the weakest link in these products. Totally not OK and hard to find a replacement.

My second one I bought at Walmart for around $50.00. Same features as the more expensive one and works just as well. This time I will prop the lid open while storing to prevent the previous experience from happening again. It would have been nice to be forewarned so I am sharing with you.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 14, 2009, 03:18:36 AM
All the foodsaver products are good. I had a seal-a-meal for 30 years but it doesn't vaccum (still works). After I bought the Fod Saver Daisy came out with a vaccuum model.  :o
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 03:38:41 AM
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on September 11, 2009, 03:15:13 AM
I've seen those on E-bay. My "normal" roll is just 18'. Will the 50 footers actually fit into a Foodsaver???

I had to seal up three cheee tonight so I thought while everything was out I'd show you the difference in the Normal 8 foot sized rolls and the 50 foot rolls I get on eBay.

And if by chance you have a cheese that won't fit you can cut an end open and seal the edges together to make a wider bag as well.


Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on September 23, 2009, 12:02:41 PM
Can you give us the link or cost for the 50 foot rolls? are they the same material as the standard Foodsaver rolle - or stronger or weaker?

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: sominus on September 23, 2009, 03:29:20 PM
Here's a link..  http://tinyurl.com/lhxfqg (http://tinyurl.com/lhxfqg)

I searched for "foodsaver 50" to find it.

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on September 23, 2009, 05:12:46 PM
Is there any chance of getting mold growth or slimy rind on vacuum sealed cheeses? If the cheese has air dried sufficiently, then I assume there should be no problems with excess moisture in the sealed package?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 23, 2009, 05:17:28 PM
I wipe mine down with brine and a little bit of vinegar, then dry with a paper towel just before bagging.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 02:15:32 AM
I age most of my hard cheese in the cave for 2 to 4 weeks before sealing unless it's like a gouda, havarti or edam that a moisiter cheese. I've never had one mold but if it does the bag is clear, you would see it.  Just open it clean it dr it and reseal.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on September 26, 2009, 04:43:57 PM
Thanks for the link Deb!

Just ordered a roll.

Will see what it's like and then ask him what the full case discount price is. 


Sure is a lot cheaper then my local stores or the foodsaver website!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 26, 2009, 11:24:12 PM
A full case? WOW! I only use about 4 rolls a year.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on September 27, 2009, 12:27:04 AM
I hope to be commercial next year. Plus we freeze (and can) a lot of vegetables and meat.

I'm sure I've used at least 150 feet this year and that is all personal (family) use.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 27, 2009, 03:17:29 AM
I use about 200 feet a year but I am thinking a case must be like ... 50 rolls?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 30, 2009, 12:52:47 AM
Ths place ahs some good prices on bag especiall in bulk.

http://www.dougcare.com/packsupplies/embossed.htm#rolls (http://www.dougcare.com/packsupplies/embossed.htm#rolls)
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: siegfriedw on October 02, 2009, 11:54:04 AM
Yes but the ebay guy is still much cheaper on the 11 x 50 rolls. Thanks again Deb!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: linuxboy on October 02, 2009, 05:27:17 PM
If you go commercial, you need to use NSF certified equipment (stainless). There are roll vacuum machines out there for commercial use, but most of them work with pouches. Vacmaster has a new machine out that's supposed to be good, but it's pricey.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 03, 2009, 01:06:51 AM
Yeah I don't know how the eBay guy does it.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 18, 2009, 11:51:39 PM
Just found the 11 inch Foodsavers on sale in Wisconsin at a store called Shopko for only $69. I bought another one. I paid twice that for an 8 inch several years ago and I can't even remember what the 11 inch was but I know it was over $200 at that price I grabbed it!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: wharris on October 19, 2009, 12:12:41 AM
Be nice to find one that is 24 inches....
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 12:24:24 AM
I can find you one but they'll want that baby girl for it!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: wharris on October 19, 2009, 12:34:03 AM
You can have my baby girl Lucey,  she is a pain in my butt..

And she sneaks and licks up all the whey when i press my cheddar.

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 03:35:59 AM
Oh she's a real beauty. I would love to have her. She has a very loving smile you are a lucky man Wayne!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: FarmerJd on October 19, 2009, 04:11:38 AM
Wayne is there anyway to make a bigger bag by cutting and sealing the edges together? I know the little canals are what make it work, and they would obviously be obstructed by the seal, but I was wondering if it still might seal up ok. I really would love to be able to seal a whole 8 or 12 inch cheese somehow with a good rind already developed. Probably impossible but worth a thought.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 04:14:58 AM
Yes you can do that. I have done it many times. When you come to the ends of the bag double seal to make sure they don't leak.

I've used this method for curing whole packer briskets in a salt water brine without leaks.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: wharris on October 19, 2009, 02:24:36 PM
Quote from: FarmerJd on October 19, 2009, 04:11:38 AM
Wayne is there anyway to make a bigger bag by cutting and sealing the edges together?

I've been wondering about that.  I'm not sure how to seal a long edge.  An iron perhaps?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: FarmerJd on October 19, 2009, 02:47:39 PM
Yea that has been my problem. Surely there is a way to make a long seam.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 04:32:18 PM
For really long sections you have to seal it multiple times. Just keep moving it along until it's all sealed. Make sure each seal overlaps the next. Try not to get any sections bunched up. Keep it as smooth as you can. I put the sealer machine near the edge of the counter top and open a drawer to help hold it steady. I used to have some pictures but all I can find is the meat rolls I made for Xmas a few years ago.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 20, 2009, 02:57:43 AM
Check out the impulse sealers on E-Bay. I just bought a 12" model so I can seal away from my Foodsaver. I want to make "rounded" vac bags and trim the excess so that the bags conform better to the shape of my wheels.

There is a link to a 16" sealer on E-Bay (http://cgi.ebay.com/16-Impulse-HEAT-Sealer-Manual-Closer-Kit-JORESTECH_W0QQitemZ110440146293QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b6bee575) just $52

or a 20" Sealer (http://cgi.ebay.com/20-HEAT-SEALER-IMPULSE-SEALER-CD-500-DEA-LUN_W0QQitemZ140352378895QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ada7580f)

By working from both ends of the bag material, you can seal almost twice the width of the sealer.

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 20, 2009, 03:07:13 AM
You can do that with the Food Saver too. On the last seal you vacuum.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 20, 2009, 04:50:27 AM
I do rounded bags (sort of) on the Foodsaver now, but the impulse sealer is much easier to maneuver and more versatile.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 21, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
They are pretty kewl.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: wharris on October 21, 2009, 01:34:27 AM
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on October 20, 2009, 04:50:27 AM
I do rounded bags (sort of) on the Foodsaver now, but the impulse sealer is much easier to maneuver and more versatile.
I would love to see how you did that.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: FarmerJd on October 21, 2009, 01:41:27 AM
me too.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 21, 2009, 01:45:20 AM
I would imagine he sealed as normal then just sealed all around the cheese to make it round.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 21, 2009, 03:49:08 AM
Actually, rounding after you seal doesn't work because there is just too much bunched up plastic. I start with an 11" vac bag, sealed on one end for my 7-1/2" wheels. Before I put the cheese in, I use a 9-1/2" plastic lid as a template to draw a circle on the bag. I do multiple seals along the drawing line to make a sealed circle on 3 sides. You have to insert the cheese wheel before you start sealing up the open end. Then I seal up about 1/2 of the remaining open end. You have to leave a pretty good sized opening for the FoodSaver to draw a vacuum. After I vacuum, I finish sealing the open end as close as possible to the cheese.

This makes a really nice presentation but is a pain in the butt if you do it with the FoodSaver. THAT'S why I bought the 12" impulse sealer. I should have it in the next day or so, and will post pictures of my technique.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: LtPiper on October 24, 2009, 02:33:53 AM
Got my vacuum sealer here http://sorbentsystems.com/sinbosealer.html (http://sorbentsystems.com/sinbosealer.html). They also have a variety of different size/types of storage containers on the site as well.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 24, 2009, 02:44:29 AM
Some pretty kewl baggers there.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 03, 2009, 04:35:18 AM
I had access to a very cheap vacuum sealer (Deni brand) and it had no suction. I also struggled with making bags large enough for my wheels. I was going to purchase a better quality sealer but instead was at Harbor Freight and noticed a box of vacuum storage bags - the kind you put your pillows and blankets in and hook up to your household vacuum to suck out the air. I thought I would give it a try.

I put two large wheels in individual produce bags, stacked them inside the storage bag and put a small experimental Havarti wheel on top. Zipped the storage bag closed, grabbed the household vacuum out of the closet, and hooked it up. There was certainly A LOT more suction than the cheap sealer I tried earlier. Here is a picture of the result. The half wheels on the left are from my failed test with the cheap sealer. If this works (time will tell), this will be a very easy way to package large wheels - and as a bonus, the bags are re-usable.

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 03, 2009, 04:43:55 AM
You could just stick one big bag in the fridge and keep adding to it!  :D
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: FarmerJd on December 03, 2009, 05:22:41 AM
Definitely gonna try this on my 10 and 12 inch wheels. I wonder if the seal will hold for a long time.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 03, 2009, 05:27:47 AM
Good question. The box doesn't say anything about how long the seal will last, but it does say it will keep items water proof for storage, so I'm hoping "storage" means a long time. There were actually two bag sizes - two the same size as the bag in my photo and one that is quite a bit larger. I suspect I could fit at least four stacked wheels in it.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on December 03, 2009, 02:44:53 PM
They seem to be pretty expensive - $10 for 3 bags. But if they are reusable.....

Here's a link to the page at Harbor Freight

               Vacuum Bags (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95613)
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 03, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
True - but three bags will seal at least 7 10-lb wheels and they are reusable. I did a search online for vacuum storage bags and you can get them much cheaper elsewhere.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 03, 2009, 06:02:58 PM
I had a thought concerning these bags just the other day.....
According to some of Wayne's posts, pressing under a vacuum might be the answer to getting a completely closed curd on a Cheddar cheese.
I'm wondering if I could use one of the large bags as a type of vacuum chamber, with my press sealed inside.
The press that I use has a very small footprint, even with the air tank so I'm sure I could make it fit into one of the larger bags.
Anyone have any ideas of why this would not work?

Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on December 03, 2009, 06:38:20 PM
Dave - I would worry about sharp edges that might poke a hole in the bag.

I love the ingenuity and creativity from everyone on this forum. You keep my gears well lubricated so the old brain doesn't start slowing down.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: linuxboy on December 03, 2009, 09:49:43 PM
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on December 03, 2009, 02:44:53 PM
They seem to be pretty expensive - $10 for 3 bags. But if they are reusable.....

Here's a link to the page at Harbor Freight

               Vacuum Bags (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95613)

Sailor, I've bought those bags before from Harbor Freight for $2.99 and $3.99 for the pack on sale or after coupon.

Dave, pressing cheese in a bag and periodically drawing out the extra air would work OK, but I don't know how strong of a vaccuum you could form and if you sealed the press inside, it would be pokey. Maybe a better way would be to put the bag directly into the mold? Or perhaps put a hoop inside the bag so the cheese keeps its shape, and then press only from the top?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: FarmerJd on December 04, 2009, 12:00:41 AM
What about pressing in the cloth without the hoop for the final pressing and placing this inside the bag. Would the cloth not be strong enough to keep the wheel in tact for a hard cheese?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on December 04, 2009, 12:48:20 AM
It seems if you put the bag in the hoop or the hoop in a bag, there is no way for the whey to escape. Need a hyperbaric chamber with negative pressure. ;D
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: linuxboy on December 04, 2009, 01:04:47 AM
1.21 Gigawatts? Great Scott!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 04, 2009, 01:42:00 AM
Okay, now you guys have given me some ideas.....
After Sailor's first post I started thinking I could build a PVC frame to go over the entire press/air tank assy. This would keep any sharp edges away from the bag and as long as the vacuum didn't break the frame I would be good to go.
Well after reading the above posts I'm thinking that sealing the tomme mold inside the bag might be the best way to go with this idea, since I can continue to press as normal only under a vacuum. Also, I would not need nearly as large of a bag which is also a bonus.
I just asked my wife if our local Wal Mart store stocks these bags and she said she thinks they do. If so, I'm going to give this idea a try this weekend.
As far as how much vacuum can be created, I really don't know.
We do have a Kirby G4 vacuum cleaner and this thing does provide a ton of suction.
As for the whey issue, I'm sort of up in the air concerning whether or not this will be a problem.
On my cheddar cheeses, I usually get the most whey out during my initial 10 minute press.
Since I will have to remove the cheese from the vacuum to flip it,  I can also dump the whey at this time.
After the initial 10 minute press I get about a 1/4 as much whey on the 20 minute press and get nearly nothing during the two hour press.
Once I put the cheese in for the final two 12 hour presses I am lucky to get even a teaspoon of whey in 24 hours.
As I said, if I have to flip the cheese anyway I can simply dump the whey at that time. At least that's the uneducated guess at this point. :)
If it doesn't work, I'm not out much. If it does work this might be the way to figure out if pressing in a vacuum is the answer.
If anyone sees any problem with this way of doing things, please let me know. Sometimes I have a problem with seeing problems before they happen.
Thanks for the ideas guys. Now I remember why I love this forum.

Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 04, 2009, 01:51:32 AM
Okay, I did a little searching online, and here's what I found at Wal Mart. It looks to me as if you can get a pretty good vacuum on these things.
If it doesn't work out my wife said she can always use them for storage. Win, win situation.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 04, 2009, 04:40:31 PM
Just wondering .. We are so fussy about food grade PVC etc. What are these bags made of and what is going to leach into my cheese? Some of these plastics really smell strong.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: linuxboy on December 04, 2009, 05:47:48 PM
IIRC, the Harbor Freight ones are a mixture of nylon and polyethylene. They don't smell very plastic-y.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 04, 2009, 10:10:46 PM
I wrapped my cheeses in food-grade plastic bags first, then in the vacuum bag just in case, but like linuxboy says, they do not smell like plastic at all.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Boofer on December 05, 2009, 12:39:43 AM
Yeah, my wife tried these huge bags for blankets, bedding, etc., some time ago. They were okay... for a while. I believe the recommended suction device at the time was a vacuum cleaner. Not really an efficient vacuum pump.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 05, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
Debi....
I think you bring up a valid point concerning the possibility of the plastic transferring an unwanted taste/odor to the cheese.
I'm not exactly sure how I am going to approach this tomorrow, but I do plan on giving it a try to see what happens.
My wife brought home the bags this evening and I currently have them airing out to hopefully get rid of any unwanted odors. Honestly, they didn't smell bad but there was some stale air inside the bags since they were shipped with the seals closed.
I have no idea if this will work, but it's not like I'm going to lose a batch of cheese from trying.
I'm sure I can still get the curd to knit together regardless but I'm dying to know if pressing under a vacuum might be the answer to a totally closed curd.
I finally feel as if I have the taste and texture issues going my way. Now I need to concentrate on a cheese that appears commercial quality as well.
I'm sure that this will nowhere nearly equal the vacuum that commercial makers use, but if I see an improvement then I can start thinking about a better made design.
I honestly don't know what that design might be, but with enough thinking I'm sure I can come up with something.
I'll be sure to let everyone know what results I come up with.
If this test is a total failure it won't be the first of my ideas that have not worked out.
Regardless, I've certainly spent $20.00 in worse ways since my wife says she will use the space bags, regardless.
Wish me luck....

Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on December 05, 2009, 04:35:08 AM
Take pictures Dave. We'd like to see how you do this even if it doesn't work. :o
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 05, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Good luck Dave!
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 05, 2009, 06:25:14 PM
Sailor....
I'll be sure to post photos of the pressing as well as the interior of the cheese when cut. I'll probably cut it in half within a week just to see how things have gone.
I guess it will be tomorrow before I can give this a try since I just had way too many commitments to devote a day to cheddar making. Hopefully tomorrow will be less hectic so I can give this a try.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 05, 2009, 07:06:51 PM
What's the plan for getting rid of the expelled whey? Or will you just leave it until pressed?
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 05, 2009, 10:13:40 PM
I found this article on vaccuum treament for stirred curd cheddar a while back and finally found it again maybe it will give you some ideas.

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 05, 2009, 11:52:02 PM
Debi...
You have no idea how much I appreciate you finding this link. The information is fantastic (even though some of it went right over my head).
The final findings seemed to be that pressing under a vacuum is the answer to reducing the mechanical openings that most of us have seen in Cheddar cheese. That just reinforces my desire to give this a try.
I'm sure that I won't be able to produce the amount of vacuum that was used in the study but it might be a case of a little is better than none at all. I guess time will tell.
As for the whey issue, here's my idea.....
I normally will press for 10 minutes at a low amount of force......flip and press for 20 minutes at a slightly increased force.....flip and press for 2 hours with another increase in force and then flip and press for 12 hours x 2 at my highest pressing weight.
Since I want keep the cheese under vacuum as much as possible, here's my revised pressing schedule.....
Press at low amount of pressure for 30 minutes.....increase pressure to a moderate amount for 2 hours......remove cheese from the vacuum bag, flip, re-dress and drain the accumulated whey. I will then put the cheese back into the vacuum bag and press at my maximum pressure for a total of 24 hours, flipping and draining the whey at the halfway point.
There is no doubt that this is an experiment that will need to be refined and I honestly have no past information to go on. I will simply see how this works out and then, according to the results I see, refine the process.
I really do hope this works because it could be a very simple answer to achieving a nice closed curd. If it doesn't I'm not out much other than some time, a little bit of money and having to admit that another one of my hair-brained schemes amounted to nothing.  :D
I'm really looking forward to doing this and will keep you all posted on the results.
Thanks again for the effort you put into this Debi. It is appreciated.
Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 06, 2009, 02:23:24 AM
Maybe if yo use enough vaccuum the whey will be sucked out of the bag with the air? I know my Food Saver will suck until the moisture hits the trouth.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 21, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
I had mixed results with the Harbor Freight vacuum bags. After a opening and sealing a few times, the valve on one of the bags gave out and no longer holds the vacuum. The zip lock is still air tight, but the valve won't hold any longer. My wife remembered she had some space saver bags, so I tried them and after a few days, they no longer hold the vacuum.

So I purchased a Rival brand Seal-a-Meal at Kmart for $45 and it works very well. Powerful vacuum and easy to use. If you are looking for a vacuum sealer, do not get the Deni brand.

I cut my large wheels in half so I could fit them in the 11-inch-wide bags. I sealed probably 10 wheels which would be around 80 pounds of cheese in less than an hour with this sealer. I wish they had rolls that were wider than 11 inches so I didn't have to "manufacture" my own bags or cut my wheels in half.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 22, 2009, 01:51:45 AM
Squirrel...
I have a food saver vacuum bagger, (that will handle an 8" wheel) but I still nearly always cut my wheels in half.
I do this both to maximize the room that I have in my mini fridges and to limit the amount of cheese that I open at one time.
As for the space saving part, I really don't know that it works, but it seems that a half wheel could be inserted into certain spaces that a full wheel could not.
Although I love making cheese I don't eat a lot at one sitting.
If I were to open a full 8" wheel, that would be a LOT of cheese to eat so I prefer to open a half wheel at a time.
I've actually considered cutting my wheels into fourths for that same reason.
I will say this....
After having used a vacuum sealer I don't see myself ever going back to wax. It is so much faster and easier using the food saver.

Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 22, 2009, 05:26:10 AM
I totally agree on the wax. Vacuum bagging is much nicer.

Once I cut open a wheel, it's gone within a couple of weeks as I have a lot of neighbors and family that eat it. If my 8" wheels were just a bit shorter, I think they would fit, but it's really not a big deal to cut them in half. I'm storing my cheese in the basement now that it's winter. I have a couple hundred pounds, so it's not going to fit into a mini fridge no matter how I cut the wheels.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Boofer on December 22, 2009, 07:01:07 PM
Dave - I cut my wheels into quarters. A quarter is a very convenient portion to have available while the other quarters continue to age in their little vacuum baggies. At one time I had considered sixths, but that hasn't happened yet.  ;)

I'll probably be vac-bagging from here on in as well. There may be some benefit though to waxing besides the aesthetics aspect. I believe the cheese has more of a chance to breathe and the wax may not be a true airtight seal.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 22, 2009, 10:11:00 PM
Boofer, I've wondered if vacuum bagging slows down the aging process due to the fact that it is completely air tight. I don't have any scientifc data to back this up, it's just something that I've thought about.
Regardless, it is so much easier to bag than to wax and the cheese does eventually age as it's supposed to. Also, I am yet to have even a speck of mold on any of my cheese since I went the vacuum bag route.
Last year I ended up pitching a few wheels of cheese due to not keeping a close enough eye on my aging cheese and having undetected mold under the surface of the wax.
That pretty much sealed the deal for me and I started shopping for a vacuum machine right away.
It might not be the perfect solution to affinage but I am certainly a lot happier with this method.


Dave
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Boofer on December 23, 2009, 12:22:33 AM
I'd have to admit that I have seen a bit of mold under the bag in some of my cheeses. I have removed the cheese, cleaned it with vinegar/salt, dried out the bag or replaced it, and returned the cheese to the vacuum.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 23, 2009, 01:30:43 AM
Except for a bit of white powdery mold on some very old asiago, romano and parmesan cheeses 2 to 5 year olds I have never had mold of any of my vacuum sealed cheeses. I did however have some mold on my sealed cheees before I had the vaccuum type sealer.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 23, 2009, 09:36:51 PM
Just purchased the 11"x50' foodsaver vacuum bag roll on eBay for $25.61 including shipping. It's on sale right now for $1.00 less than normal price.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 23, 2009, 10:29:28 PM
I need to order more I have a tiny bit left only about 10 feet which I will ore tha use wrapping Christmas cheeses tonight.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Likesspace on December 24, 2009, 01:24:54 AM
Guys...
Here is a link to the bulk vacuum bag rolls I've been buying. They are from Cabelas......11" x 50' and come in a nice tidy box with a built in cutter. They also have a place to write the date and contents and are only $19.99 per box.
So far I've been very happy with the quality. They seem to be a nice heavy grade of bag material.
Hope this helps someone out.
Dave

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602009-cat570001-cat570002_TGP&id=0067491518714a&navCount=3&podId=0067491&parentId=cat570002&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=UK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602009-cat570001-cat570002_TGP&id=0067491518714a&navCount=3&podId=0067491&parentId=cat570002&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=UK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true)
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on December 24, 2009, 04:52:39 AM
Hey! That's good to know. I have a Cabelas 10 minutes away from my house. I'm going there next time.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 25, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
I was just there 2 weeks ago and they didn't have these. So I ordered a pair of them and a hank of sausage casings, and new winter boots - it's looking like a COLD winter time to trade in my sneakers I think.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: hplace on January 10, 2010, 06:11:35 AM
Just picked up a roll of 11" x 50' vacuum bagging at Cabelas for $20.00. The box is a dispenser and has a cutter on it also. Haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 11, 2010, 01:01:43 AM
I just got two rolls in from Cabellas last week. Good price.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: TroyG on April 21, 2010, 03:26:30 PM
Going to revive this post.  ;D

I want to be able to seal 10 pound wheels that are 10" diameter. I would like to find a unit that does not require me to turn over my first born in exchange. I found the below unit that does 15" wide bags, but not sure if anyone knows if this is a good unit or knows of a better option?????

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pro-2300-Vacuum-Sealer-Stainless-Steel-FREE-SHIPPING-/230463020256?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a8aa9ce0 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Pro-2300-Vacuum-Sealer-Stainless-Steel-FREE-SHIPPING-/230463020256?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a8aa9ce0)

Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Boofer on April 21, 2010, 03:51:03 PM
Troy - That's a bad link. Curious about that sealer.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: TroyG on April 21, 2010, 05:04:27 PM
Odd I can open it right up.

Try this one

http://www.westonsupply.com/Weston-Vacuum-Sealer-PRO-2300-Stainless-Steel-p/65-0201.htm (http://www.westonsupply.com/Weston-Vacuum-Sealer-PRO-2300-Stainless-Steel-p/65-0201.htm)
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: humble_servant7 on April 21, 2010, 08:59:24 PM
Quote from: TroyG on April 21, 2010, 05:04:27 PM
Odd I can open it right up.

Try this one

http://www.westonsupply.com/Weston-Vacuum-Sealer-PRO-2300-Stainless-Steel-p/65-0201.htm (http://www.westonsupply.com/Weston-Vacuum-Sealer-PRO-2300-Stainless-Steel-p/65-0201.htm)

Thats the exact one I'm going to get. Heard its the best one on the market. I would go for it.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Boofer on April 22, 2010, 02:58:18 PM
Yeah, that one works.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 23, 2010, 02:29:44 AM
I've been looking at the white one (I like white) I burned up my Sealer last weekend. Doesn't seal good anymore. Would save time having a 15 inch sealer too. Then I could make one big cheese instead of two without making double bags.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: TroyG on April 23, 2010, 02:03:49 PM
I just placed my order.  :D
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 23, 2010, 05:40:59 PM
They are cheaper on E-Bay. Am considering one myself.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: TroyG on April 23, 2010, 06:26:42 PM
I got my on eBay for $399.00 free shipping, no tax and 50 free bags.  ;D
Title: Water used when removing whey and adding water
Post by: wandailab on April 23, 2010, 10:10:57 PM
Hi, I will like to know, how soft should be the water to be added to the curds and what effect it could have if it is so hard.

wandailab@coqui.net
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: zameluzza on May 05, 2010, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 04:32:18 PM
For really long sections you have to seal it multiple times. Just keep moving it along until it's all sealed. Make sure each seal overlaps the next. Try not to get any sections bunched up. Keep it as smooth as you can. I put the sealer machine near the edge of the counter top and open a drawer to help hold it steady. I used to have some pictures but all I can find is the meat rolls I made for Xmas a few years ago.

how do you seal these? I can't seem to understand how you get this long continous strip ( meat roll) and still each item is sealt.. please help.
Title: Re: Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Large Cheeses
Post by: Tomer1 on November 02, 2011, 10:20:34 AM
Any suggestions for a budget device that will not break down in a year's time?
Im not planning on doing any heavy dutie work, mostly cheese and perhaps some meats.