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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => SECONDARY COAGULATION (Usually Recooked) - Primarily Whey Based => Topic started by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 03:50:39 PM

Title: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 03:50:39 PM
My previous Ricotta cheese making (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1794.0.html) was using milk, this one is using 4.5 US gallons/17 liters of whey from my large Dill Weed flavored Havarti (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2130.0.html) made yesterday. The whey was stored in the used plastic milk jugs from store in household cold fridge over night. Half of the whey is probably only 50% whey as the Havarti was a washed curd cheese so added hot water, thus this Ricotta batch is really ~ 3 US gallon/11 liters of whey.

RECORDS


Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
Pictures #2 . . .
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
Pictures #3 . . .
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 20, 2009, 07:12:46 PM
Several books and online sources say not to use whey that is over 3-4 hours old so I alway make Ricotta while the whey is still hot from a cheesemaking session. I do my cheese in 3-1/2 gallon batches. I add 1/4 gallon of whole milk back into my whey when making Ricotta. Even a little whole milk makes a big difference in the yield. Washing the curds definitely efects yield. The dill might interfere as well (but adds a great taste).

I skim off the large floating Ricotta and then filter the whey thru bujtter muslin. The filtered stuff often has the consistency of cream cheese until it cools. I get 6 to 8 ounces of Ricotta per gallon of starter milk. We use it a lot and I sell some to help pay for my milk.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 20, 2009, 07:52:14 PM
Sailor

Thanks for your support/advice. I've read the same thing, use whey when fresh, but this went straight into cold kitchen fridge overnight so I was assuming it would work. Should never assume. I'm currently filtering through my draining bag and no bits only fines, cream cheese is a good analogy, will post pic when done straining.

So I have three possible causes of failure of my almost no yield:

Another question, I've also seen other Ricotta recipes where add some milk, but I assumed that was just to get a better yield, or is there some extra reason, ie do you get more yield from adding 1/4 gallon of milk to whey than from just making Ricotta from 1/4 gallon milk and no whey? And is so why?
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 20, 2009, 07:59:14 PM
As far as I know the extra milk is only to increase yield. I make Mozzarella once a week and yield 20 pounds of whey per batch. Because the whey from Mozzarella is already acidic I don't add vinegar. I add a quart (10%), Heat to 210F, and get 2 pounds of ricotta.

Christy
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 20, 2009, 08:27:51 PM
The books generally say heat to 180-190F. I find that the Ricotta doesn't precipitate out well unless I get over 200 - but NOT to boiling.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 20, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
I agree Sailor. I bring it to 210F, just at the point of boiling but not quite, then turn off the heat once the curd starts to form.

Christy
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 20, 2009, 10:53:43 PM
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on September 20, 2009, 07:12:46 PM
Several books and online sources say not to use whey that is over 3-4 hours old

I have always made the ricotta the next day as it is to late the night I have made the cheese. I generally get about 8 to 12 ounces per gallon of whey depending on the cheese. I am not as meticulous about draining the cheese curds as john is though. I do take the whey to about 200F degrees.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 21, 2009, 03:05:21 AM
Debi, thanks, so while it is best practice to make Ricotta when whey is fresh, you have done so and gotten good yield.

Therefore it looks like the only reason for my no curd just fines yield, is because I used Dill Weed and thereby altered the chemistry . . . I'll have to try again but without Dill Weed.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 03:15:39 AM
I have to wonder if it was the dill? ... I have never made riccotta on the same day as the cheese so I am pretty darned sure that's not it. Now I wish I would have made mozzarella from that last Havarti batch but I used most of it to make bread bowls for party.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 23, 2009, 09:10:46 PM
I made Mozzarella and Ricotta today. With this thread in mind I did not add extra milk to the whey for ricotta.

I brought 3 gallons of Mozzarella whey to almost 220F before the curds started to form. Once I saw the curds start I turned off the heat. I got huge fluffy curds and scooped them out with a basket after draining I had 1lb 4oz of ricotta from whey only!

My guess is that 'whey only ricotta' yields will vary according to the kind of whey you use.

Christy
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Cheese Head on September 23, 2009, 10:44:14 PM
Christy, thanks for your test, I assumed you added vinegar like I did when you got to temp, also what type of milk did you use for the Moz?

To all, any special uses for the 3/4 pounds of precipitate cheese I have in bowl above?
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 11:04:36 PM
That's a nice yield Christy. 220 degrees huh?
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 23, 2009, 11:09:23 PM
No vinegar! Mozzarella whey has perfect acidity for Ricotta. This was truly from whey only. I used goat milk for the Mozzarella.

Yes, it was very foamy and just on the verge of boiling when the curds popped and I turned off the heat. I need to get a new camera so I can get some pics next time :)

Christy
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
That sounds interesting all you did was cook the whey?
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 23, 2009, 11:34:06 PM
Yep, whey only!

This is the traditional way to do it. Just heat the whey from the Mozz to the point that the curds pop then remove from heat. The curds continue to form for a few minutes. They are lovely curds and can be removed from the whey with a skimmer or a ricotta basket, no need for muslin.

Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 01:46:03 AM
I will try that tomorow I just made another batch of cheese tonight and reserved 3 gallons of whey.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 24, 2009, 02:20:14 AM
Is it Mozz Debi?
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 02:22:46 AM
Nope it was Manchego. Does this process only work for mozzarella? I've made riccotta from other types of cheese wheys before.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 24, 2009, 02:32:30 AM
Honestly I have only used this method with Mozzarella whey. I do not know if you will get the same results with whey from other cheeses the composition of the whey is going to be different.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 02:45:06 AM
Well maybe I will try it with only 1 gallon. I need 1 gallon for brining anyway.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 24, 2009, 03:18:36 AM
The only reason to add in a little extra milk is to boost your yield. Otherwise any old whey will do. The bacteria and/or molds don't matter because 200-210F kills them anyway. Ricotta is one of the few cheeses that we make that has no bacterial activity. It freezes really well.

When foam starts really collecting on top of the hot whey, the curds are getting ready to pop.
Title: Re: John's Cheese #050 - Ricotta #2 From Whey Only, No Yield!?
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 10:48:35 PM
I freeze a lot of riccotta. My faily love manicotti, stuffed shells, lassanga, canolis etc. You can never have to much riccotta in the house!