I just heard about this forum today. My name is Jay and I have been making cheese about 10 years as a hobby and a food source for the family. My wife and I have 10 children together the oldest of which is 16. We have 3 cows: jersey, geurnsey, and a holstein/jersey cross. We normally milk one cow at a time except during the winter when we milk all 3 for about 5 months and make a lot of cheese. I have gradually worked my way up to making about a 15 pound cheddar cheese from 20+ gallons of milk once every week or two. I would really like to get input from others on better pressing techniques, caving, and acidity control as I have always just had to "hope for the best" in my process. Our cheese making is a family affair and usually takes a whole day but is something everybody loves; especially when we get to open them 2 months later (when we can wait that long as all cheese makers know is the hardest part). I look forward to the interaction.
JD, welcome to the forum!
Great to have another very experienced cheese maker on this board!
Wow, 10, great family hobby . . . food source, looking forward to your input and advice, are all your cheeses cheddar?
I am very practical in my cheesemaking so not a lot of adventure. I have made one really good swiss, tons of mozzarella, several basic farmer's cheeses and i tried Gouda and Colby with absolutely no success. When I finally was able to make a decent cheddar cheese I just stuck with it. If I am overrun with too much milk though I still make the microwave mozzarella by the bucket. I really am a self taught novice who has just done the same thing over and over for years and probably don't know as much as most newbies. But I can make a 15 pound cheddar once a week and it is very functional :)
Welcome aboard FarmerJD. I too am an old time cheese maker self taught. I was very happy to find this great forum to get some ideas and share my experiances. If it works stick with it!
Hi JD!
I used to live in big cities all life long. But I'm sick of it and want to move to the country.
Can you tell me, please, what the equipment do you use to proceed with 20 gallons and how much place it all occupies?
I made a water tank by cutting a big metal tank in half and welding 3 rollers on the bottom. Then I took a water heater element and attached a 220 dryer cord to it so I could plug the element into my dryer outlet (probably dangerous). I found an old 24" stainless steel funnel extension from an old dairy/cheese making operation and welded a stainless steel bottom on it to make a 25-30 gallon pot to hold the milk. The pot sits on bricks in the bottom of the water tank and I heat the water to a few degrees above the target milk temperature. I use an ice cream freezer motor and a homemade set of paddles to stir the milk with continuously. it all takes up a lot of room: tank, pot, cooler/strainer, stirrer, press, hoops and hopefully next a real cave. A lot of room. I keep most of it in the barn during the summer but in the winter it stays out most of the time.
WOW! I would love to see pictures of your set up. I would also like to know what recipe you follow. Predictable, functional, repeatable cheese is what I am after.
Pam
I have respect for do-it-himselfers like you. Wish you good luck with every single cheese :)
Hi Farmer JD and welcome to the forum! I am with Pam, I am a tinkerer also and would love to see some pictures of your setup. Also while your at it could you FedEx me 5 gal of fresh Guernsey milk. That must be wonderful to have at your fingertips so to speak. ;D
My guernsey is a blessing. She is actually only half guernsey. Her mother was my pride and joy and best ever milk cow. I drove 6 hours to get her and paid a fortune. She died right after she had her second calf and I decided to keep the calf (dad was a hereford) and just see how much of her mom she had in her. I am so glad I did. I really can't tell the difference in her and her mom's milk. Very yellow milk and she is very gentle. Great milker.
My setup is so redneck I am embarrassed to even show it. Right now we are getting 7+ gallons a day so cheese production is really picking up. I am posting a few pics on here but don't laugh ;)
Hey Farmer- I love the curd rake that you made from an ice cream maker. I'm going to have to steal your idea! That is a great idea. And that press looks like the real deal. Are they tractor counter balance weights that you are using? What about 30lbs apiece? Forget about the redneck stuff- that's what they call American ingenuity. Pure and simple. Congratulations on a great setup!
Looks fabulous. Great job.
I notice that you have a short post section below your stirring paddles. Why didn't you go all the way to the bottom? Seems like you would get curd matting on the bottom.
My only other suggestion would be to go with stainless steel flat stock for the parts hanging in the milk. Not expensive, and a lot easier to clean.
They are tractor weights. they weigh 75 lbs each. That's 300 lbs with a mechanical advantage of about 3-4 so that equates to 1000 lbs on the cheese with a 8 inch hoop.
The stirring paddles took a lot of trial and error. If you notice the handles on the side of the pot I use, you can see that the sides of the stirrer fit into those handles and the top board rests on the top edge of the pot. I actually have to put a very thin board in the bottom of the pot wedged very tight against the sides and bottom with a pilot hole for the end of the stirrer. The reason my paddles are not on the bottom is a trick my grandad taught me with a butter churn. I angled the blades up ( like a windmill) so that they pull the whey off the bottom and the whole mixture is constantly being circulated to the surface. I think you can see the angle in the pics. My first try was flat and I did have problems. I would love to use stainless and I probably will eventually but I wanted to see if it would work first and since it does, now its hard to change. The would is cypress and I simply drop everything in boiling water when I start.
Yes, I see the angle on the blades. Clever. 8)
Seems like a LOT of weight. I press Cheddar with just 70 pounds on a 7-1/2" mold.
Cheddar does have very specific pH targets that are well documented. A pH meter could make things much more consistent for you.
TERRIFFIC. Love the tractor weights!
Pam
I have always used a process I found on a site (http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/welcom.htm (http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/welcom.htm)) a long time ago and the guy there recommended 10-20 psi which is around 1000 lbs for a 8" hoop. I have always thought that was a wide range so I shot for the middle. 70lbs on a 7 1/2" mold is less than 2 psi if i did the math right. One thing that has happened in my cheese making is when I switched to stacking and milling the curds instead of trying to just keep them stirred. Since then the curds are more dry and do not press as easy. But the end product is much more consistent. I am not sure why that is happening since I don't have an acid tester (I haven't figured out how to make one yet ;D) but I have not lost a single batch of cheese since I switched. Every batch has been pretty much the same. Is there a certain tester that everyone uses? I know I really should be using one.
By the way the site I posted may be old news to everybody here but it really bridged the gap between commercial and home operation for me when I started.
welcome, I'm new here too and never made cheese yet. But I want to start yesterday.
Thanks 'whichwhey'. Do you have any plans on starting soon? I think a great cheese to start with is quesa blanco. pretty much a no fail cheese that gets you excited cause you can eat it immediately. I think they have a recipe on this site somewhere.
OK, so FarmerJd, I am really good at the fresh cheeses. What I have had no luck with, but was very consistant with, is pressed cheese. All of mine, without fail, dry out immediately and, if left to age even in a humid place, turns into something that resembles a block of dense rubber in texture. Again, I am very consistant in this. (It tastes good and I cube it and put it in soups, stirfry etc since it doesn't melt.) So, I can do repeatability; I just have to find a recipe that works for me. That's why I want to see your recipe.
Pam if you don't wax or bandage vac pack them after a few weeks to a month they won't dry out.
My 7.5 inch mold is 44 square inches so pressing at just 10 psi would be 440 pounds. My French press has a 5 to 1 mechanical advantage, so that would be 88 pounds on my lever arm. Even at 70# my curd mass is trying to escape thru the cheesecloth into the holes in the mold. With 88 pounds on the lever (440# pressing down) I would be getting cheese noodles coming out the holes.
And the U of Guelph site is really geared for commercial production. They often mention pressing for just one hour. I think what their recommendations don't take into consideration is the height of the mold cylinder. My mold is just 3" high. Yours looks like 10" or 12".
You obviously have a heavy duty setup. Most home presses can't handle those kind of weights.
Sailor- I rounded the numbers but we are on the same idea. Like I said there is a lot of difference between 10 and 20 psi (440 vs 880 lbs) I am looking to extend my arm so I can just keep the same weight. I built the press before I started the bigger quantities but it has held up well. Your comment about the "noodles" is exactly why I am hesitant about drilling the holes. And I realize that the website I mentioned deals with many aspects from the commercial side but it doesn't just give commercial parameters in the recipe section. For instance, under the cheddar cheese recipe:
"12. After the salt is well absorbed and the flow of whey has stopped, the curd is ready for hooping. Use 20 lb (9 kg) hoops and place 22 lb of curd in each hoop. The hoops should be lined with plastic, single service press cloths.
13. Press overnight at 75 kPa (10 - 20 lbs/in2). Start with low pressure and gradually increase to 75 kPa. Vacuum treatment to remove air from the cheese and increase the rate of cooling may be applied during or after pressing. In modern commercial practice, pressing is often shortened to as little as one hour."
It sounds like he is contrasting his instructions with commercial practices to me.
The point you bring up about column height is a great one. My gut tells me your right but I can't explain it scientifically. My cheeses usually end up 4 to 10 inches high when i take them out so the hoop has to be much taller to begin with. Thanks for your input, sailor. I wish I had seen this site earlier.
Pam: I will try to post my next cheese making on line here. We will probably do it on thursday or friday. I really think the results are easier for larger cheeses. Just my personal experience. I know conventional wisdom says start small, but I threw away alot of small rubber balls! :)
Were you having trouble with open texture before? Is that why you are going with such heavy weights? Wayne is doing 25 gallon batches of Cheddar but I don't think he is pressing with that much weight.
The holes are really important for drainage. Otherwise you may trap whey inside.
i am not sure if my problem was open texture. The curds just did not stick together well enough with the 12 inch hoop so i dropped back to the 8 and it was much better. My whey escapes around the top and especially under the bottom edge. He said he had a Mech Ad of 4 on his press and was keeping the pressure under 10 psi. I am still going to try it this week and I'll let you know how it works.
Quote from: FarmerJd on September 29, 2009, 11:33:34 PM
Thanks 'whichwhey'. Do you have any plans on starting soon? I think a great cheese to start with is quesa blanco. pretty much a no fail cheese that gets you excited cause you can eat it immediately. I think they have a recipe on this site somewhere.
I was thinking about ordering next week. So off to find the recipe for the quesa blanco thank you.
Here's a simple one:
Queso Blanco
Ingredients:
1 Gallon Whole Milk
1/4 Cup White Vinegar (see note)
Procedure:
Heat milk to 180 F (82 C) stirring constantly. Be careful not to burn the milk.
While mixing with a whisk, slowly add the white vinegar.
You will notice the milk begins to curdle.
Keep stirring for 10-15 minutes.
Line a colander with a fine cheesecloth.
Pour the curdled milk through the colander.
Allow the curds to cool for about 20 minutes.
Tie the four corners of the cheese cloth together and hang it to drain for about 5 - 7 hours (until it stops dripping).
The solidified cheese can be broken apart and salted to taste or kept unsalted.
NOTE: The juice of 3-5 lemons may also be used instead vinegar it will make the cheese tangier.
This is the same recipe I use. You can add spices with the salt to give it a different flavor.
I tried to find it but no luck. I will print it out and try it. Thank you Thank you.
Quote from: FarmerJd on September 30, 2009, 12:24:40 PM
i am not sure if my problem was open texture. The curds just did not stick together well enough with the 12 inch hoop so i dropped back to the 8 and it was much better.
Have you tried "pressing under whey"? I have no idea how you would do your big batches, but it really helps improve texture. There's different approaches, but basically you pre-press your curd mass under whey. I submerse my mold in the stock pot and scoop curds into the mold, pressing by hand a layer at a time. I then pull the loaded mold out and transfer the pre-pressed curds into a waiting cheesecloth. Then back into the mold for pressing.
I do the same. Pressing under whey seems to give a better press with less weight.
I have never tried it. I've never even heard of it. I guess I could take my big pot and just use it as the base of my press. Do you not use cheese cloth at this point? I am assuming you press it a little (say 2psi) for 15 min without cloth under whey and then take it out and wrap it then put it in the press and press it without the whey. Am i understanding this correctly? I guess this would be useless if I had no holes in my hoop, right. And what is the reason behind this; anyone know?
By the way i actually solved my press problem today. I am going to use a suspension air bag for my press. They use them on 18 wheelers and I be able to control my pressure with a simple regulator. I looked into the air cylinder but a 4" bore would be needed with a 10 inch stroke so that would be too expensive for a homemade cheese press. I am kind of excited. I also looked into vacuum pressing alone. I'll post more on that later. Thanks again for the input.
Yes use cheese cloth at least for the first few presses. A light weight is all that is needed to get started. I use a gallon jug of whey.
I do NOT use cheesecloth when pressing under whey. Defeats the purpose. You do NOT actually use your press to "press under whey". Just scoop the curds into the mold (submerged in whey) and press lightly with a gloved hand. I work it around and knead to fill in all the nooks and crannies.
AFTER I pull the mold out of the whey, I transfer the hand pressed curds into cheesecloth. And it goes right back into the mold for actual pressing. Among other things, this heats the mold and keeps the curds really warm thru at least the initial pressing. I think this makes a huge difference.
how does this affect the salting? I am sure the salt dissolves into the whey which would decrease the percentage.
Generally when pressing in whey you salt via a brine bath.
Sailor please explain how keeping the cheese cloth in the mold defeats the purpose? I use the plastic cheesecloth liner in my molds as a colander. I also do the first 15 minutes of light pressing in the whey. But then I am on my toes peeking over the top of the vat too. ;D
I just want the curds as unrestricted as possible when pressing in the mold under whey. I don't want any folds or wrinkles potentially causing dead spots. I ususally use a closed bottom mold, but it's just as easy to use an open bottom mold under whey. With just a little hand pressing and sitting under it's own weight, it's no problem to remove the loaded mold. So I just don't see an up side to using cheesecloth under whey.
Ahh I see. Well almost all I use anymore is the kadova style molds so there's no wrinkles. I like to shake the plastic cheesecloth liner to drain and move curds around.
When using a PVC pipe type mold I still use cloth chesse cloth in the whey for the first light press, flip then press lightly again before removing the cheese cloth and remove it for all other pressings - no wrinkles either.
So do you salt brine your cheddar cheese? ??? I think the salting at the end before pressing is a part of the actual process for most cheddar. it is supposed to enhance whey removal right? I have never heard of brining cheddar but I have thought it would be neat to try it.
Yes cheddar you salt before pressing.
There are some cheeses that don't get salt before they are pressed, instead they soak for 6 to 36 hours in a salt water brine bath. Depends on the size of the cheese.
kadova style molds would be awesome for pressing under whey.
Salting the curds helps draw out whey, but it also slows down bacterial growth and acid production. Some bacteria are salt intolerant and are probably deactivated, or at least seriously slowed down.
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on October 02, 2009, 03:26:58 AM
kadova style molds would be awesome for pressing under whey.
Yes they are!
FarmerJd - It seems like the heavy-duty press weight you're referencing off that site (thanks for that link) is for 50kg wheels, no? That size of a wheel would need the bigger press weight. I think the 8" wheels don't require that much to get the job done.
Sailor - Wouldn't pressing under whey without the cheesecloth present problems with the curds squeezing through the mold holes?
I have also become a firm (as in curds ;) ) believer in pressing under whey. Great improvement in my final effort.
-Boofer-
You don't press that hard under whey. When I take it out of the whey, I dress with cheesecloth and press as normal. So, NO the holes are not a problem.
Boofer if you look at my picture you'll notice I have about 1/2 gallon of whey on each mold. Those molds are 2 kg molds too so you can see you don't need much weight under whey.
I've been pressing with 10 pounds using cheesecloth in my 8-inch mold. For my next cheese I'll try the "clothing optional" method in the mold.
-Boofer-
I often remove the cheese cloths after I've flipped a few times but it has to be a smooth mold.
Farmer JD,
Your ingenuity is inspiring!
:-[ :-[ Necessity is the Mother of Invention and ingenuity. My granddad was the king of ingenuity. He would be proud I hope.