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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Milk Types, Formats, & Pre-Cheese Making Processing => Topic started by: whichwhey? on October 01, 2009, 12:10:23 AM

Title: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: whichwhey? on October 01, 2009, 12:10:23 AM
I was wondering if it is alright to use store bought milks for making cheese? I will try to find fresh be I want to start making cheese. If there are any reasons not to use it please say. TIA. :P
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Cheese Head on October 02, 2009, 12:08:00 AM
whichwhey, good question, I assume you mean cow's milk.

So far I've made 50 batches of cheese and all with store bought milk (https://cheeseforum.org/Making/Milk.htm). Mostly past & homogenized whole cow's milk and no problem, one with 2% also no problem, one using Ultra Pasteurized (ie almost dead) goat's milk, I did not get a good curd set.

Stay away from UP milk, run away from UHT milk and as you say, search through shelf to find freshest date. Also, I always buy the cheapest stuff on sale which here in Houston Texas is USD2 per US gallon ;D.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: whichwhey? on October 02, 2009, 01:39:02 PM
Thank so much for replying. I just wanted to make sure it would work before trying.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Baby Chee on October 02, 2009, 07:42:15 PM
I'll second that.  11 cheeses in a month, all store bought, all great...except for a stilton that got infected with something bizarre.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Boofer on October 02, 2009, 07:55:52 PM
Don't forget to include your calcium chloride (CACL) when using store-bought pasteurized, homogenized milk.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Alex on October 03, 2009, 07:23:30 AM
I never had success with store bought milk. I tried to make Camembert twice, the curd was just a mess. The "best" store bought milk I can get is 3% fat, pasteurized and homogenized. I've added CaCl. When I pasteurize raw milk I add about 0.8 gram to 3 liters of milk. Somebody told me about adding more fat, like cream.
I know most of you are very experienced with store bought milk, I'll be glad to have some advice. TIA.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Cheese Head on October 03, 2009, 10:53:26 AM
Alex, that's strange (https://cheeseforum.org/Making/Coagulation%20Problems.htm), if you look at any of my cheese making records (last 5 in Washed Curd Board except for small Lactic cheese) you'll see my method. I do nothing special, maybe our rennet amounts are different?

Maybe your store bought past & homogenized cow's milk in Israel is more past than that here in US? Or (I'd be shocked) have more chemicals?
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: memkuk on October 03, 2009, 11:12:54 AM
When I lived in France I used store bought pasteurized whole milk to make excellent Gouda. We moved to Thailand 5 years ago and here I never managed to coagulate the store bought milk using rennet, although I added CaCl2 solution. Then I found a goat farm and got raw milk, which works without any problem. Does anyone have an idea why store bought milk doesn't work? I read somewhere that the pasteurization process differs from country to country. Could the reason be that the pasteurization process in a tropical climate is more intense than in other more moderate climates, thereby making it impossible to coagulate the milk?
Txs for any input.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 03, 2009, 11:22:43 AM
I use raw milk and occasionally a store bought non-homogenized milk with great success. I have tried a couple of hard cheeses with cheap store bought and have not been happy with the results - longer time for curd to set, weak curd, less flavor... But I'm probably just spoiled on the "good stuff". ::)

I feel that homogenization causes lots more problems than pasteurization. Alex for example home pasteurizes his raw milk and has no problems. If using store bought milk, try to find one with a higher fat content that is non-homogenized. They're out there but harder to find. But worth the effort. I found my source by searching the internet for non-homogenized milk in my area. Then called the dairy to find a dealer.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 03, 2009, 11:25:16 AM
If your milk is not coagulating, it is probably ultra-pasteurized and will not work. Don't trust the label. Change brands.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Cheese Head on October 03, 2009, 11:51:43 AM
Eric, good point, here's some info (https://cheeseforum.org/Making/Milk.htm) I coagulated ;) on milk. There's a link there to US based "Intl Dairy Foods Assoc" that has several different Pasteurization temps and times, so pasteurization in one place can be very different to another, ie container may say past but it could be same as another person's Ultra Pasteurization (almost dead) milk.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Alex on October 03, 2009, 12:04:07 PM
John - I tried more rennet, didn't help. I think you might be right about pasteurization temperature. I'll try to find out.

Sailor - Store bought milk we have here is from only three brands (small country ;)). All of them the same, ultra-pasteurized and homogenized. Only one company, the biggest one, has not ultra. There is no non-homogenized store bought milk.

UHT milk for example, is produced by one diary and packed in same size boxes with 3 different logo's.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: memkuk on October 03, 2009, 04:19:34 PM
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on October 03, 2009, 11:22:43 AM
I found my source by searching the internet for non-homogenized milk in my area. Then called the dairy to find a dealer.

Sailor: I saw some water buffaloes in the rice paddies. Maybe I should milk them under the cover of darkness and try my hand on Mozzarella  ;D
Bottom line is: I'll stay with the raw goat milk, eventhough it is rather expensive (60.= Thai Baht per liter, which amounts to about 6.60 USD per gallon).
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 03, 2009, 10:15:33 PM
I would love to get some water buffaloe milk.

Goat's milk here is $10-$12 dollars a gallon.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: memkuk on October 04, 2009, 02:50:44 AM
Oops! What am I complaining about?
6.60 US$ a gallon is not bad at all then.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 04, 2009, 03:09:56 AM
Nope not bad at all!
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Baby Chee on October 05, 2009, 01:31:48 AM
This week/end I have gotten a LOT more curd out of the store milk with the Calc. Chloride and better rennet prep., and keeping the starters in the freezer.  Even pressing my goudas for extra hours (due to sleep) I wind up with bigger cheeses.  My 8" hard cheese mold is almost too small for 3.5 gallon cheeses.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: whichwhey? on October 05, 2009, 02:33:53 PM
When be farmers dry up their goats? I want to check around for prices but not sure if now is the right time. ???
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: linuxboy on October 05, 2009, 10:07:22 PM
Quote from: whichwhey? on October 05, 2009, 02:33:53 PM
When be farmers dry up their goats? I want to check around for prices but not sure if now is the right time. ???

Depends on the breeding schedule and goat type, but generally right around now, Sept-Nov.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: linuxboy on October 05, 2009, 10:09:42 PM
Quote from: Baby Chee on October 05, 2009, 01:31:48 AM
This week/end I have gotten a LOT more curd out of the store milk with the Calc. Chloride and better rennet prep., and keeping the starters in the freezer.  Even pressing my goudas for extra hours (due to sleep) I wind up with bigger cheeses.  My 8" hard cheese mold is almost too small for 3.5 gallon cheeses.

Autumn and winter cow milk typically has higher protein levels because of where the cows are in their lactation cycle, and feed type. So it might be that, or it might be your revised approach, or both :)
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: whichwhey? on October 06, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
Okay thank you for the info. I was thinking about just staying with cow milk for now. Can one use the store bought goats milk?
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: linuxboy on October 06, 2009, 11:48:00 PM
Quote from: whichwhey? on October 06, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
Okay thank you for the info. I was thinking about just staying with cow milk for now. Can one use the store bought goats milk?

Most store goat's milk is not very good. It's ultra pasteurized and rather nasty. If you can find a local source, it may work.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Cheese Head on October 07, 2009, 09:57:45 AM
Ditto linuxboy, I tried to make a Chevre (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,833.0.html) once using store bought Goat's milk, all I could find was Ultra Pasteurized, didn;t get a good set. I may try again though with more rennet.
Title: Re: Milk, Cow's, Store Bought - OK To Use In Cheese Making?
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 07, 2009, 02:30:58 PM
I don't think more rennet would make much difference. Ultra-pasteurization really damages the milk structure. "Organic" milk is usually UP and is worthless for cheese.