I would love to know how to make different cheeses without rennet or boughten starters. There is a small cheesery that I found (bonnyclabber) that makes cheese without either of these things, and instead relies on clabber. They use raw goats milk- which is what I use- and allow it to clabber. They use no additives or rennets, and yet can make quite a few different cheeses.
The problem is I just cant find anything on how to do this! Surely you cheesey folks must know of some process and recipes.
Anyone?
Any body?
I know that you can process your own rennet from a calf's stomach lining and you can get lucky with a wild culture and use it continuously. I guess that is what you mean by "clabber" which is kind of a colloquial term. When I was growing up people used the term to refer to rotten milk with no culture added; just a wild bacteria. Cheese by definition is a product of the curdling effect rennet has on it or a substitute like vinegar. I hope that helps.
I know about making cheese with claber but these are the only ones I know that don't need rennet - cream cheese, Gjetost, Herregaardsost, Homestead Cheese, Juban, Kochkäse, Laban, Lemon Cheese, Manouri, Munajuusto, Myseost, Paneer, Quark, riccotta, Suris.
Anything you are looking for?
There's a Russian fellow here, Pavel, who has a similar goal of making cheese without rennet. He uses a natural meso starter and makes, basically, a lactic cheese. A lactic cheese is one in which curds are made without rennet, or with very little rennet. You wait until the milk coagulates (< ph 4.6).
You can make many types of lactic cheeses (you call these clabber cheeses), but in the end, they will likely resemble each other. You can't make, for example, an alpine style cheese from overacidified milk. You would have to stick to making a fixed type of curd coagulated by acid, and then finish the cheeses differently (washed, bloomy rind, etc) for different flavors.
Oh, I just realized, you could also make a heat-precipitated cheese. For that, you let the pH drop a bit, not all the way to 4.6, and then heat to at least 180 until the proteins solidify. But then you're basically making a ricotta salata style.
Last winter, I made a couple of clabber cheeses that turned into a pretty good parmesan-type of product.
Clabber is NOT rotten milk - it is raw milk that is allowed to sit at room temperature until the naturally occuring organisms in it thicken the milk. I started a thread about this some time ago: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1927.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1927.0.html)
When I made the clabber cheese the first time, it was by accident, as I was intending on a clabber-cultured cheese using rennet to thicken it. As it was wintertime and the house was quite cool, I cultured 5 gallons of 88 degree milk with 2 cups of clabber, then covered it with a towel. In the morning, the whole batch was thick and produced a clean break, so I cut the curd and heated it over low heat until the curds were the consistency of scrambled eggs, firm but not completely shrunk (sorry, I did not note my temperatures).
I then drained off the whey and put the curds in a smaller kettle, which was placed in a larger kettle of hot water (water temp 125 degrees). I allowed this to sit for 2 hours, then stirred in salt (amounts not noted), and pressed in cloth-lined mold at 15 pounds for 2 hours. Turned and re-dressed the curd, then pressed at 15 lbs overnight.
After drying in the refrigerator for 2 days, I larded and bandaged the cheese and set in cheese cabinet to age, turning every so often. When I tested it at 3 months, it was a dry, slightly crumbly cheese that was tangy. I covered it with lard and returned it to the cheese cabinet to age another two months, at which time it had a wonderful, Parmesan-like flavor. It grates nicely, too.
I also use clabbered milk to make cottage cheese by cutting the curd, then pouring hot water over the curd (about 160-170 degrees). Gently stir the curd, then drain off the water and pour more hot water over the curd. Again, gently stir and if the curd is starting to set up you can allow it to sit for about 5 minutes. If the curd is still quite tender, pour off the water again and pour more hot water over the curd, then allow it to sit. Drain through a colander and run cold tap water over it when the curd seems to be just right. If it gets too hot it will melt and be mozzerella-like in texture. Cottage cheese can be used dry or you can add cream to it.
Quote from: MrsKK on October 06, 2009, 01:05:03 PM
Last winter, I made a couple of clabber cheeses that turned into a pretty good parmesan-type of product.
Clabber is NOT rotten milk - it is raw milk that is allowed to sit at room temperature until the naturally occuring organisms in it thicken the milk. I started a thread about this some time ago: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1927.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1927.0.html)
When I made the clabber cheese the first time, it was by accident, as I was intending on a clabber-cultured cheese using rennet to thicken it. As it was wintertime and the house was quite cool, I cultured 5 gallons of 88 degree milk with 2 cups of clabber, then covered it with a towel. In the morning, the whole batch was thick and produced a clean break, so I cut the curd and heated it over low heat until the curds were the consistency of scrambled eggs, firm but not completely shrunk (sorry, I did not note my temperatures).
I then drained off the whey and put the curds in a smaller kettle, which was placed in a larger kettle of hot water (water temp 125 degrees). I allowed this to sit for 2 hours, then stirred in salt (amounts not noted), and pressed in cloth-lined mold at 15 pounds for 2 hours. Turned and re-dressed the curd, then pressed at 15 lbs overnight.
After drying in the refrigerator for 2 days, I larded and bandaged the cheese and set in cheese cabinet to age, turning every so often. When I tested it at 3 months, it was a dry, slightly crumbly cheese that was tangy. I covered it with lard and returned it to the cheese cabinet to age another two months, at which time it had a wonderful, Parmesan-like flavor. It grates nicely, too.
This is exactly what I was looking for. I am going to check out and bookmark that thread you linked me to.
The little pocket production I found is making a few different cheeses. One is a blue cheese using the clabber meathod- not sure what the process is or what natural cultures theyre adding if any. But if theyre making blue cheese couldnt one make feta with said method?
I am still researching just how they make their cheeses, but here's a link to their online blog.
http://www.sullivanspond.com/weblog/2007/06/29/bonnyclabber-country-cheese-process-photos/ (http://www.sullivanspond.com/weblog/2007/06/29/bonnyclabber-country-cheese-process-photos/)
MrsKK - I shouldn't have used the term "rotten"; i meant it humorously because that is what most people think of it as :). I added the "no culture added just a wild bacteria" to explain it. This was how we always made buttermilk to start with until we got a good one going. I still use this culture for my starter in my cheddar cheese. I never buy culture for it. My grandmothers would debate when i was young about this. One of them thought it was crazy and always used a buttermilk starter while the other one simply let it "rot" or naturally culture with whatever was present.
I saw a recipe one time for a "buttermilk cheese" like what you are talking about and tried it early on before I knew what i was doing. I will try and find it. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I make buttermilk from raw milk every week in an old fashioned crock and there have been times when I got a wild strain in there that really curdled the milk well, almost like rennet; even thicker than yogurt. i wonder if that is the trick to it- just finding the right bacteria that will do this well. Sorry again for the misrepresentation.
Great discussion, so I understand there are two topics in one here:
- First no-rennet thus only acid coagulated also called lactic type cheese.
- Second using clabber instead of buttermilk or manufactured culture as your mesophilic starter culture to acidify the milk.
I built some info on Acid Coagulated and Rennet Coagulated Cheeses in the Coagulation webpage here (https://cheeseforum.org/Making/Coagulation.htm). There it says that:
- For acid coagulated cheese, normally get coagulation at pH 4.6-4.7, similar to linuxboy's <4.6.
- If using raw cow's milk and only acid coagulation, then problem of cream separating during long time to lower pH and curdle and thus non-homogeneous cheese. This can be overcome in three ways: Either re-worked to form a more homogeneous mixture (like Mrs KK does in post above), or homogenize milk to stop separation, or by adding a reduced amount of rennet to enable better whey separation and better curd formation which thereby results in less cream separation.
- If using raw goat's milk (like what OP Amosunknown wants to do and is done in the "Bonnyclabber" cheese making link), it has less tendency to separate, thus less need for rennet, although some recipes still call for small amount.
I made a Semi-Lactic cheese (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2071.0.html) using manufactured meso starter culture as I can't make clabber as no raw milk. I used member Alex's Semi-Lactic Cheese recipe/procedure (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1988.msg14652.html#msg14652). It is called Semi-Lactic as it uses a reduced amount of rennet to aid the primarily acid coagulation. OK 75% of normal amount of Rennet wasn't that small, but it was at non-normal for rennet lower temperature so I understand I just used the non-enzymatic phase of rennet coagulation and not the second enzymatic phase.
Question, as I used store bought past & homogenized whole cow's milk, I shouldn't have a cream separation problem during the long time to lower pH and curdle. Thus do I need to use any rennet and just have pure acid coagulated lactic type cheese?
Hello,
(Please understand that I do not cast ANY aspersions on making cheese with starters and rennet, and recipes, just because I had several 'proof of concepts' that I undertook!!)
In 1999 I set out to prove that clean raw milk clabbered could be turned in to many different kinds of cheeses, without cooking, rennet, starters, freezing, etc. I called my modern day procedure based on old world techniques, 'Bonnyclabber', after the term Bonny Clabber anglicized by the Scots-Irish in America in the 16th century. Bonny Clabber, as you probably know, was a daily staple for country folk with access to raw milk, and simply refers to fresh clabber eaten with cornbread, or sugar, or molasses, etc. This was on the one hand an effort to prove that a healthy buttermilk-type product, (raw milk of any kind is illegal to sell in Virginia), could be made into aged cheese, but on the other hand it was my way to possibly preserve a heritage product in hopes that cultured raw milk products might be legal once again. On the THIRD hand, it was also an effort on my part to be sustainable by producing farmstead cheeses from very clean, very healthy milk with a much lower cost since I wouldn't need to order lots of industrially produced additives, rennet, etc.
We set about to reduce the thick pamphlet which was the PMO, (pasteurized milk ordinance) dairy requirements that referred to large-scale cow dairies, down to believable and do-able micro-dairy facility. Because I wanted to make raw milk cheese here, I wanted our facility to reflect high standards such as Grade A milk handling. We do not have a pasteurizer on-site, but because the cheese is made from fresh warm milk in a Grade-A built facility, we can claim that the milk is handled Grade A. In other words, that is a distinction usually used for those who are going to bottle milk, after chilling and pasteurizing large quantities. We don't do that, but we handle the milk cleanly and carefully for our cheeses.
There's some information on our site, but I am hoping that my book, The Bonnyclabber Way will be in print VERY soon. This will chronicle our efforts over the last ten years to prove that raw milk can be handled cleanly in a sustainable micro-dairy facility, and that many cheeses can be made from clabber by different rind treatments, and affinage. I make them fresh all the way to hard, washed rind, or cloth-bound, or herbed, oil rubbed, beeswaxed, ashed, and on and on. All Cheesemaking is artistry and science, based on observation and practice.
Happy Cheesing,
Rona Myers Sullivan
PS. I hope I can get the book out soon to clear up some things in detail. Until then I have sent many articles to Dairy Goat Journal on Sustainable Cheesemaking, and if you search my name on there you can read the archives.
Quote from: Amosunknown on October 06, 2009, 02:02:50 PM
I am still researching just how they make their cheeses, but here's a link to their online blog.
There are two ways to make curd from clabbered milk. One, you wait until the pH drops enough (~4.6) to coagulate the milk, then you drain and press the curd, or heat, drain, and press. Or two, you wait a bit until the milk is thicker, but not quite clabbered, and precipitate the proteins by heat and the help of the lactic acid that's built up.
From those two basic procedures, you produce the curd. The cheese flavors after that depend on what you do and how you age. You could mix in herbs. You could wash the rind. You could inoculate the rind with mold, coat with ash, wrap in bandage, etc. All these different practices are done after the curd is made and are in the category of finishing and affinage. Your cheeses will taste different, but will still be based on lactic-precipitated or heat-precipitated principles.
Rona/Lachevriere, welcome to the forum and great background info, thank you! Good luck with your book!
To others, on the BonnyClabber cheese link above I left a message for Rona asking if she would like to join us and comment in this thread, and here she is ;D!
Linuxboy, thanks for the clarity.
Quote from: John (CH) on October 07, 2009, 11:20:54 AM
I understand I just used the non-enzymatic phase of rennet coagulation and not the second enzymatic phase.
Question, as I used store bought past & homogenized whole cow's milk, I shouldn't have a cream separation problem during the long time to lower pH and curdle. Thus do I need to use any rennet and just have pure acid coagulated lactic type cheese?
Hi John,
Don't want to hijack the thread, but wanted to reply to your question. I think you meant by the two phases first the cleaving and then the joining. They're both enzymatic in the sense that rennet acts as catalyst. The small amount of rennet in a lactic cheese makes for a better mouthfeel because it does help to set a curd, albeit a weak one. If you just drained a clabbered milk, you'd have something similar to a yogurt cheese like labneh. So you could do it both ways, with rennet and without, but the cheeses would turn out differently.
"... i meant it humorously because that is what most people think of it as..."
FarmerJD - no offense taken, but I did want to clarify, as there are a lot of people who are incredibly prejudiced against raw milk and the products that can be made from it, mostly due to being very uneducated about raw milk.
AmosUnknown - once you get started on making cheeses with clabber, please let us know how they turn out for you.
QuoteFarmerJD - no offense taken, but I did want to clarify, as there are a lot of people who are incredibly prejudiced against raw milk and the products that can be made from it, mostly due to being very uneducated about raw milk.
I totally agree! Anytime someone discovers that I drink unpasteurized milk or make cheese form it, I always have to go into this long explanation of the science and reasoning behind pasteurization and the laws, etc. And explaining that letting it sit overnight and "rot" :-[ to form buttermilk for my kids to drink the next morning always gets a gasp or two. ;D Thanks again for being easy on me.
Aaaargh! I forgot to say that in 1999 when I first got goats and started making cheese, I was also milking a mans' cow once a day. I was able to take my share of the cow's milk and experiment. Because I wanted some cream and butter, (and because I believed this is what pioneers did), I skimmed off the cream and THEN let the skimmed milk clabber the same as the whole goat's milk at 85f to 104f.
At first I used the 'slosh-back' method, (leaving a little acidified milk from the previous days batch in the glass jar for clabbering the next days milk), but I abandoned it pretty quickly as I found that the goats and cows milk would go too acid too fast causing a sharpish cheese before it's time. Because I was using raw milk and wanted to sell raw milk cheese commercially, I did not want that flavor profile to advance so quickly knowing I would have to age the cheese out to 60 days before legal sale could take place.
At that time the best option for me was to clabber the milk in lidded glass gallon jars placed on a tray on top of a fridge. In my sparse living conditions at the time with very little AC, that temp seem to rise as high as 110f with little ill effect, except for the occasional small overflow of whey. As many of you probably know, there are several types of overflow which can be caused by the introduction of yeast, introduction of e coli or other pathogens, that can create millions of little pinholes and gassiness. I had some of those too, but fresh, clean milk high in butterfat at the height of good-grazing season will sometimes clabber quickly and release some whey.
Interesting concept I look forward to reading your book.
I have found that the mouthfeel is my raw milk lactic cheeses is better than any others that I have made. I believe this is due to the natural development of acid, as when I have added acid the texture has been noticeably more grainy. I also believe that because the raw milk is carefully handled, never chilled before starting the make process, drained fully after clabbering, and VERY importantly dried at 45f for at least 24 hours, makes the difference. This little message window is so small that I can't remember what is at the beginning of my sentences!! The texture is so silky smooth, that when people taste them from samples at the market, they almost always buy. I think mouthfeel is as important as taste.
Shame on me, but i've just seen this thread!
First i'm after Lachevriere clabber cheeses can be very nice and different in texture, hardness mouthfeel flavor etc.
And Karen, yes, clubber sure IS NOT rotten milk! I used to eat (or drink) clabber for years since i was a little boy. And what an amazing thing it is full glass of clabber with a couple of teaspoonfull of sugar mixed in! The holy taste of fresh raw milk is one of the reasons because i try to make as more lactic cheeses as possible.
By now the best result i've got is washed rind cheese. I think it's because presence of some molds at the surface of a wheel change not only flavor. It affects the very structure of the cheese and, though i didn't make measurements, i think pH of the cheese goes up, as i noticed every time reducing or even disappearing of sour aftertaste that almost always presences in lactic type cheeses. Except, of course, heat coagulated ones. And the effect of molds made me start those experiments with non-rennet blue cheeses. Because they go together so well - p. roq. and lactic cheese :)
Farmer, are you still using clabber for your cheddars? If yes, we are closer to each other than i thought before :D
I make "classic" cheddar using microbial rennet and want to master my skill in it. But i do admire non-rennet or lactic or clabber cheeses!
Pfff.... this short post takes me already more than a half an hour! It's hard for me to wright in English. May be to be continued ;)
Karen did you make that " parmesan-type" cheese again? For the first time, as you wrote, you had done it by accident and may be you made more attempts? And as i understand, when you made that "parm" you didn't skim the milk, right? The matter is i don't get a clean break even when i let the milk set for 48 hrs and i thought it is because of thick layer of cream above the milk.
linuxboy can you say anything about inoculating of heat-precipitated curd? This is what i want to try and your suggestions about it could be very usefull. My plan is to make heat precipitated curd, remove most of the whey, add culture and let it ripen then. Can it work?
Pavel,
I do have another clabber parm-type cheese aging right now. It is only about two months old, so I won't try it for another 2-4 months yet. Not quite as long as "real" Parmesan, but it does take some time.
I do skim the milk for this. I discovered awhile ago that it took forever for raw milk to clabber if it wasn't skimmed first, too. Plus, all of the recipes I've seen for Parmesan are using skimmed or low-fat milk.
I'm thinking that maybe all the fat in the cream tends to seal off the milk, preventing proper thickening to clabber?
I also want to thank you for persisting in posting. I really appreciate all of your efforts - I know it takes a long time for you to translate your thoughts so that we can understand you. You are doing a terrific job!
Hello Karen and Pavel,
This post is long, and I'm afraid may be too much information for those not using milk from their own, or local animals. I'm sorry!
I recently re-read my earliest post and noticed that I left something out related to the current discussion. I said that when I first began making lactic cheese in 1999 that I skimmed the cow's milk before clabbering. I did skim the cow's initially, but not for long, and I don't do it anymore because I have better luck clabbering whole milk, AND because I am making primarily whole milk cheeses..... cow and goat.
I was trying to emulate what people would have done in the past, when they had no access to grocery stores for rennet, had no calf to kill, or could not afford to kill a calf for the stomach for rennet. (With cow's milk I too wanted to have some skimmed milk for family drinking, some cream for coffee and the rest of the cream for butter.) I have since read and found some old folks who gave me more verbal evidence of what they used to do. Most people in Virginia did not make hard cheese from clabbered milk, but instead ate the fresh farmer's cheese, or made cottage cheese with some cooking. The wealthier people gave the 'blue-john' or buttermilk to the pigs!! Not my family. We had fresh buttermilk from butter making when I was small in the 50's and 60's, and I love the stuff. If we still had access to great, fresh buttermilk, we'd likely have not need for Prilosec!
Karen and Pavel... you are have trouble getting whole raw milk to clabber as well as skimmed. I am very curious about that. The only time I have more trouble with whole raw milk is when the ambient temperature is dipping below 80f. Like making yogurt or cheddar whole milk seems to clabber most efficiently around 90f-104f, and at the time of year when pastures are best..... May through July here. Efficient clabbering and draining issues DO also occur when I'm using late lactation milk, which for my goats is after 6 months. If poor pasture, cold weather, and late lactation happen to fall at the same time, I sometimes have to add a yogurt starter culture at the rate of 1 part yoguurt to 10 parts milk.... otherwise the whole milk clabbers well on it's own with nothing added. My draining cloth has to have a tighter weave because the clabber is softer than a rennet-curd.
Regards,
Rona
I'm so happy we have some kind of "clabber comunity" here, for the first several months since i'd sign up i was sure that almost no one is interested in making cheese without rennet (except Riha with his munajuusto) :D
Karen
this time, when you were making that "parm", i guess, you made all measurements of temp, time etc.? Could you please share the data? I'm very exited and will be waiting for the result of aging :)
Rona
I saw the pictures of the cheeses you make and they are wonderfull! I wish i could try at least a very thin slice ^-^ And those "hearts" show how much do you love what you are doing. Very impressing!
The raw milk do clabber readily, the problem is to get a "clean break". I always add my home made yogurt-like culture but still have to heat all clabbered mass for an hour or two before i can cut it. BTW do you check your clabbered milk for a clean break or it doesn't matter for you?
Pavel,
I will post my method under the appropriate section of the forum,, but it will probably be a day or two, as I'm working nights this weekend. It takes me a couple of days to catch up on my sleep, then I'm good to go again.
Rona,
The only time I have trouble getting milk to clabber is if I set out whole milk or if the temps in the house are under 70-72 degrees. Which, honestly, is for about 8 months of the year. Our home is an old cheese factory, with tile flooring and stays very cool, even during the summer. As it is a HUGE house, we don't heat it above 65 degrees in the winter.
Once I have a good clabber going, though, I always use some to innoculate the next batch, which speeds up the process and gives better flavor to the clabber. A good flavored clabber is always essential to getting good flavored cheese.
Hello Pavel and Karen,
I cannot always get a clean break, but that's ok., when I follow the routine that I will explain later in this post. There are so many variables, as I sometimes have to make cheese from pasteurized whole cow's or goat's milk, which I have purchased. I did find that the 'Pet' brand of cow's milk clabbers better than other brands that I can buy here.... for some reason??? There is a plant near Virginia Beach where the Pet milk originates. Anyhow, I use pasteurized when I am not milking goats or the cow for raw milk.
That's pretty cool that you live in a former cheese plant Karen! I do not completely heat or cool my buildings either..... home or dairy. In the Summer my cheese kitchen is a perfect temperature for the clabbering milk, and I only use the air conditioning for the times that I need to be in there working. Right now, it is pretty cool in there..... maybe 50f.
I am heating my cheese kitchen only a little right now, but to clabber the milk I have to use a rectangular food warmer which only has a high, or low setting. (It is COLD here right now!). I have been putting a stainless steam pan with water on this warming appliance which I have set on high, (which is still not very high), then I put my 2 1/2 gallon glass container filled with milk into the warm water and incubate it that way. I cover the whole thing with a stainless lid and a large towel to help keep the heat in. It keeps the temperature above 85f for about 8 hours. Then I turn the appliance off leaving it covered for a day or two until I get a strong enough curd to drain.
I use what's called butter muslin for draining, and I have great luck now not losing milk solids. When it stops dripping whey, I mix in the salt and close the draining bag back up, wrapping the whole thing in a large towel. I put these bundles into the fridge to dry for one or two days, flipping them several times. I want it to dry enough that the fromage blanc pulls right away from the cloth without scraping or losing any cheese. THEN I usually put the cheese into a mold shape lined with cheese cloth for another day or two.... turning, but not really pressing..... only from it's own weight. After that I either bind the wheels with cloth, coat in beeswax, or do some kind of rind treatment with herbs, leaves, oil, alcohol, etc..
I'm just never happy with the texture of cheese curd when I have used rennet or acid for curd development. I like a satiny smooth mouth-feel and no rubberiness. Gently handling of the milk and curd, plus the extra drying time helps me to achieve this, I believe.
As far as appropriate sections.... I have not gotten used to this forum yet. There are lots of things that I have not figured out. This should be my slow-ish time, yet it seems not to be!!
Later,
Rona
Quote from: Pavel on January 09, 2010, 04:17:22 AM
Karen did you make that " parmesan-type" cheese again? For the first time, as you wrote, you had done it by accident and may be you made more attempts? And as i understand, when you made that "parm" you didn't skim the milk, right? The matter is i don't get a clean break even when i let the milk set for 48 hrs and i thought it is because of thick layer of cream above the milk.
linuxboy can you say anything about inoculating of heat-precipitated curd? This is what i want to try and your suggestions about it could be very usefull. My plan is to make heat precipitated curd, remove most of the whey, add culture and let it ripen then. Can it work?
Pash, a few possibilities for the lack of clean break:
One, the bacteria might not be distributed evenly in the milk. With natural bacteria, you are taking a chance in terms of how well they will perform. Some like to clump on the bottom, and will produce acid and acidify only the bottom. The result will be a lack of clean break. Resolution is to use an established clabber starter that is vigorous in reproducing and making acid. Uneven distribution or poor bacteria growth also happens with suboptimal temps.
Two, the milk may be off. Although milk will coagulate due to acid/heat, if it has low solids or a poor mineral content, you may have issues with coagulation.
You also asked about inoculating curd. Do you mean taking clabber and heating it to aid curd formation, then re-inoculating that curd? Well, it will work in the sense that you can do it, but it will not work in the sense that it will produce a different cheese. By the time you heat, there is very little food for the bacteria, so if you introduce living bacteria, it will not be evenly distributed, and it will die because it will have no food.
Feel free to PM me directly if you prefer; I am fluent in Russian.
Quote from: linuxboy on January 13, 2010, 09:07:39 PM
Pash, a few possibilities for the lack of clean break:
One, the bacteria might not be distributed evenly in the milk. With natural bacteria, you are taking a chance in terms of how well they will perform. Some like to clump on the bottom, and will produce acid and acidify only the bottom. The result will be a lack of clean break. Resolution is to use an established clabber starter that is vigorous in reproducing and making acid. Uneven distribution or poor bacteria growth also happens with suboptimal temps.
Two, the milk may be off. Although milk will coagulate due to acid/heat, if it has low solids or a poor mineral content, you may have issues with coagulation.
You also asked about inoculating curd. Do you mean taking clabber and heating it to aid curd formation, then re-inoculating that curd? Well, it will work in the sense that you can do it, but it will not work in the sense that it will produce a different cheese. By the time you heat, there is very little food for the bacteria, so if you introduce living bacteria, it will not be evenly distributed, and it will die because it will have no food.
Feel free to PM me directly if you prefer; I am fluent in Russian.
Now i begin to understand some of sources of my failures. I observed that the bottom is coagulated better than the top. And after i've red that Karen "whisks culture to death", i know i must give a very good mix to my clabber culture first and only after that add it to milk. And i see that my culture becomes stronger every time i "propagate" it by adding fresh milk. So the second reason (after not even distribution) is natural bacteria's poor performance. Ok, seems like i can solve those problems. Thank you linuxboy and Karen!
About inoculating curd i understand that that lead to producing of different cheese. That doesn't matter to me. Good news it's possible :)
I've sent a PM to you linuxboy. I would be happy to get some information in Russian. It would be much easier for me :)
Are you cutting the curd after it clabbers? For a cheddar style cheese? I made a big mess today trying to use a clabbered raw milk. I stirred it up and added rennet....stupid me eh? If I can get it to drain I will still press it to see but after reading this thread and visiting Lachevriere's site I realize I missed something totally! Hey-I am learning eh???