Yesterday I made a cheddar (traditional English via Ricki Carroll's recipe) with 3 gallons pasteurized store milk and 2 quarts ULTRA-pasteurized whipping cream. CaCl added to milk before starter.
I should have looked closely at the cream in the store, so ended up with a highly processed cream.
Curd formed nicely, but after the stirring and cooking the whey was having troubles getting out of the curd. I let it set for 45 minutes, hoping it would release whey, but it didn't. A yellowish oil appeared on top of the curds. There was a lot of curd in the cheesecloth which made it a draining nightmare while flipping at 95ºF for a few hours. The draining was quite oily and fatty.
Ultimately, the draining problem drew me off schedule during the cheddaring period. It all went to press, filling the large 8" mold, and has been pressing for over 16 hours so far. Haven't weighed the cheese, but it is large enough, so the curd harvest was good.
Whey left behind was very rich and white/mild green.
I'll see how this cheddar turns out in 3 or more months. So far it just seems far softer and oilier than normal store milk cheeses I have made. I might have to press it longer to harden it up more. Figured I would post my results and open a topic for people who wind up with some ultra-pasteurized milk in their cheese.
Why did you feel the need to add cream? 2 QUARTS is a crap load of extra cream. MAYBE 2 cups, but not 2 quarts.
"Flipping at 95F for a few hours" sounds like WAY too much time cheddaring. I usually do an hour. Did you stack your slabs?
pH targets are really important with Cheddar, Are you testing?
Cheddar needs to be pressed much harder than many cheeses to get the cheddared curds to meld together. Especially with an 8 inch mold.
I currently have no solid method of testing pH. Strips aren't very accurate.
The curd was so moist it didn't stack for a good while, and when it did I could taste the drain off becoming more acidic.
Cream--I felt the need to experiment and see how the cheese works in the end. The curd is very rich and creamy, and not nearly as acidic as the run off was. Pressing is still going on at 50 lbs. for the gouda mold it sits in. There hasn;t been any deflation in the past 8 hours that I can perceptibly register.
Is there a reason to NOT put cream into the cheese?
Adding cream obviously changes the fat and calcium balances. 2 quarts is a LOT of cream. Recipes are very specific for a given cheese type. For example - Emmental & Jarlsburg (Swiss Types) both call for lower fat milk. If you use higher fat milk, they will not produce "eyes" as well.
For cheddar, you should be pressing at least 3 psi or greater (some here are pressing 10psi or more). For an 8" mold, that's 150 pounds. Yes, 150. At 50 pounds, you are only pressing at 1 psi on an 8" mold. If you leave too much whey in the cheese, it will turn out acidic and sour.
My weight to pressure ratio spreadsheet is attached.
I see, thank you for the chart.
But what about the missing element on the chart: time? Can time compensate for lack of weight in this process?
A little extra time can compoensate for a little less weight. But extra time isn't going to help if you are pressing at less than 1/3 of what you need. You are just going to end up trapping whey in the curd matrix.
Many hobbyist recipes will say "Press at 50 pounds overnight". Their point of reference is for a 4 inch mold. If you follow the spreadsheet, 50 pounds on a 4 inch mold is 3.98 psi. Now go down the column for an 8 inch mold. You need 200 pounds to acheive the same 3.98 psi.
Here is the description of pressing pressures in "200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes"
Light - 5 to 10 psi
Medium - 10 to 20 psi
Firm - 20 to 45 psi
The LOW end of, 10 psi, would be around 500 pounds on an 8 inch mold.
I feel that these are a little high, but most of us are probably pressing hard cheeses way to light on larger molds.
Sailor - Thanks for the chart. What is the origin? Why DO all the cheesemaking books prescribe a lower press weight, e.g. 50 pound overnight?
Not saying that Colby and Cheddar are identical, but I just did a Colby using 3 gallons of whole milk and 1 quart of pasteurized (but not ultra-pasteurized or UHT) whipping cream. It turned out very nicely.
-Boofer-
The typical tabletop press uses a "calibrated" spring that bottoms out at just 50 pounds. So, the majority of cheesemaking books and recipes take a very simplistic approach and assume that you are using a small tabletop press with the 50# spring and a 4" mold. Their use of weights instead of pressure (psi) is wrong and really a disservice to amateur cheesemakers.
The surface area of a 4" follower is 12.6 square inches. So, if you are using 50 pounds, that translates to 50 pounds/12.6 square inches = 3.98 psi. The problem is that as you increase the size of the mold, the weight stays the same, but the psi drops dramatically. An 8" follower has a surface area of 50.3 square inches, so that same 50 pound weight is really spreadout and doesn't apply as much pressure to the larger cheese. In fact, 50 pounds/50.3 square inches = less than 1 psi.
Commercial sites and the best recipes talk about psi (pounds per square inch) and NOT just weights.
I created the chart using basic math to calculate PSI.
I've upped the weight to about 70 lbs. and am pressing for 48 hours. Tonight at 10pm, before bed, I take it out. Hopefully it is fairly dry by that time.
I should buy more weights. In time I would love to do far larger and deeper cheeses. 8" is perfect, but 8+ inches deep would be good for harder cheeses.
Sailor - Thanks for the detail. Have a cheese on me. ;) That helps me a lot.
I wonder how many cheese artisans here are conforming to the minimal weight and how many are actually pressing according to psi? I would have to believe the former would be the case.
I thought I was doing well with my barbell weights. You raise doubts. Perhaps I could be doing better with the application of more pressing pressure.
-Boofer-
Team, great table. If you search there has been several heated discussions on weight vs area. In my humble opinion there are many other variables to think of for that molecule of water/whey to travel from the center of cheese to rind, such as height of cheese, number of drainage holes, route via cheesecloth of using a liner, time etc. Plus pressing is about whey removal and knitting of curds.
"Their use of weights instead of pressure (psi) is wrong and really a disservice to amateur cheesemakers."
I think the point of these books is that they ARE for amateur cheesemakers. It took me a year of cheesemaking to get to the point of making a 6" mold from PVC - mostly because the PVC had to be bought in a ten foot section and cost over $30. It may not sound like much to some people, but that's not "extra" money that just happens to be laying around my house...
I also use barbell weights (purchased used for $10) and made my press stand from hardwood slabs that we got from a furniture factory (they give away truckloads of odd pieces and occasionally there are some large enough for rustic use), plus dowels I purchased at the local hardware store.
Strictly economy here and strictly amateur. It's still cheese.
I press at 50 lbs for a 6 inch diameter cheddar - the mold is 8 inches deep, but the curds usually fill it to about 6 inches. They compress to about 4 to 4 1/2 inches thick. The cheddar comes out just fine, even though I am at about half of what the psi "should" be according to your table.
Just took the cheddar out of the mold: gave it the night extra to compensate for weight.
Seems drier than any other cheese I made. Quite a chunky cheese too-higher than any other other cheese made in the same mold.
Guess it's now a 3 month pause (or more) before we find out how well this cheese worked.
Yep, cheddar is definitely a hurry-up-and-wait cheese.
That extra cream is what gave you the extra volume of cheese, although I think the problems you had with draining were from the higher fat content. But, hey, if nobody experimented, no new cheeses would be discovered, would they?
What's your next cheese to attack?
ha, I guess whatever cheese I blunder into I will probably shift a bit. It's going to be a month pause before I get back to the cheesemaking. I'm still trying to get Stilton working, and Camembert that it in excellent shape.
That cream gives quite a bit extra value! I'm glad I tried it out.
MrsKK - The pressure calculation table is my handiwork but the recomendations for how hard to press are from people with a lot more experience than me.
For example, here are Peter Dixon's pressing instructions for the cheddar recipe on his website.
"Press with enough pressure to create a smooth rind by the next morning. This is 25 p.s.i. to start. After 30 minutes take off the pressure and tighten the cheese cloths around the cheese. Increase the pressure to 40 p.s.i. for the rest of the time."
I only press cheddar around 4 to 5 psi and get good results. He is suggesting 5 to 10 TIMES the pressure. Peter is VERY highly respected and knows what he is doing, but he is also looking at things from a bigger commercial setup. I agree with John that there are lots of other vaiables such as height, etc. so I have compromised on what I feel is the lower end of acceptable.
I think pressures expressed in PSI are processes used for commercial manufacturing of large multiple cheese moulds stacked one on top of the other or in long troths. They need to get it done and on the store shelves as quickly and efficiently as possible to make money.
As my largest mould is only about 10 inches and will never likely hold more than a 7 gallon batch, "pounds" work fine for me. In fact the weight I choose use is based more on how the cheese reacts than a specific weight - and as you all know I am more a believer in pressing light but for longer periods. As I am self taught it is a method I learned over yeas of making cheese with homemade gimoz I figured out through trial and error. It seems many of the old time books that are being discovered online seem to be agreeing with that method. I don't think our forefathers had hydraulic presses.
I have never pressed a cheese with more than about 30 pounds of "weight" and have have very successfully done Cheddars and other hard cheeses for years.
Science is a wonderful thing but don't over complicate a simple process that uneducated albeit very talented people with little equipment but trees and rocks and cloths have done for centuries.
I have found recipes online from old time artisan cheesemakers that simply say use a large rock and set for X hours. Because "my rock" is different than your rock doesn't make it wrong or unworthy of producing a great cheese. Once you find "your rock" - stick with it! ;)
True, Debbi. I've made quite a few cheeses with a mold that supposedly needs a LOT more weight. And yet my hard pressed cheeses all seem similar in texture to the better store bought stuff.
Let's take that to the extreme. Swiss for example is traditionally made in 200 pound wheels 30" or more in diameter. Would you only press with 30 pounds on a wheel like that? For how long? OK, how about the 8' wide cheddar made for the Queen of England? 30 pounds? Or the record Wisconsin Cheddar of 34,951 lb (15,853 kg) produced for the 1964 World's Fair. Probably not pressed with 30 pounds.
As the diameter of the hoop increases, weight is distributed more or less evenly across a given surface area. Using PSI instead of weight is a simple way to standardize PRESSURE from hoop size to hoop size. It is NOT just for commercial applications. Lots of recipes and books (old and new) make referece to PSI instead of weight. Look at 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes page 37 for her definitions of Light (5 to 10 psi), Medium (10 to 20 psi) & Firm (20 to 45 psi) pressures. Her recipes are typically 4 gallon homemade batches, NOT gigantic commercial productions. Peter Dixon talks about PSI on his website.
OK. Pressing light for longer periods. How much longer? Time is an unknown variable. The longer that excess whey stays in the cheese, the more acid that is produced.
Yes, thru trial and error, you could figure out which of the big rocks and the length of time that works best, but by using PSI you can go from a 4" hoop to an 8" or a 24" and get predictable results.
But wouldn't a large cheese that is 1000 of so lbs. just press itself, in lower levels? You then have an increasing pressure through the curds, so the top needs pressing, or you can flip it. :P The follower alone might be big enough to do the job on such large cheeses.
I'm winging it, but I believe there is something there to contemplate. Is there info on how people pressed giant cheeses of the past? Giant - 4' diameter or greater.
No, even a big cheese can't press itself, unless you want a really open texture like a Blue. There has to be sufficient pressure applied equally to the top surface to squeeze out excess whey and meld the curds. Wayne is doing bigger cheeses and using lots more weight. Farmer is using 750 to 1500 pounds on his big press to achieve 10+ PSI. ... and still wanting a better texture.
PSI is a known constant regardless of the cheese size. Weight however is completely variable depending on the hoop size. Sort of like waiting a certain number of minutes until you get a clean break. Yes, that works, but milk chemistry, rennet quality, and temperature can be different every time you make cheese. So the flocculation technique compensates for these variables and is way more accurate with predictable, repeatable results.
Obviously, a large rock CAN work "just as well" as a pneumatic commercial press - as long as you you use the same rock every time and don't change hoop sizes. ;)
Almost anyone can make cheese. It's much harder to make really good cheese with consistent results. When you buy a good beer, you know pretty much exactly what a given brand is going to taste like. If a beer was markedly different every time you opened one, you probably wouldn't buy it. Artisan cheeses are the same way. If they are different every time, they are not marketable.
No need to shout it out. I know there are plenty of weight mongers on the forum, but by your own rationale in previous threads, my cheeses pressed in an 8" mold with 50 lbs. should have have problems with bubbles and texture. Yet, every gouda I open has a brilliant texture and no bubbles or moisture problems.
You might be confusing commercial professionalism with home made cheese produced to be delicious and edible. I'm not keen on having super hard cheese, but on getting a recognizable product I can enjoy and make consistently.
And on my own path I am curious about the edges of the experience and what people have found through research, experience, success, and failure.
I use a screw-type press (4" & 8"), and after years of doing it I just know by the feel of the screw under my hand if it's right or not. And how I use the screw to create pressure varies with the type of cheese that was put in there - Brick, Romano, Queso Blanco and Parmesan each get their own type of pressure treatment. And I do get consistent results.
Sometimes it's just a matter of experince and knowing what your are working with. Good example Goaheardess!
Keep in mind not all cheeses are cheddars. Some require almost no weight or the weight of a few other cheeses. Munenster is a good example practically no weight is needed. A few pounds or a few cheeses.
Although it is fun to build or buy various toys/tools to play with in our hobby it is not the only way to do it. I wouldn't want a newbie to think he/she should give up because they need these big impressive tools. Although I am almost as obsessed with trying different techniques as most.
I just ordered a food grade stainless steel Bain Marie pot which holds 2.5 gallons, approx. It's about 9.33" inside diameter and 11" deep. I'll make a wood follower and drill it up with drainage holes, then see how it fares when I get a big fulcrum press together sometime.
If it works, I have a nice press and mold and follower for under $100.
Available weight would get me up to 5psi.
Where did you get the Bain Marie pot from?
INstawares has a bunch of them ...
http://www.instawares.com/bain-marie-pots.6863.4.7937.0.0.8.htm?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp_plp (http://www.instawares.com/bain-marie-pots.6863.4.7937.0.0.8.htm?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp_plp)
Just getting in on the end of this thread but I had to comment. Baby chee mentioned the weight of the cheese helping press it and it reminded me of a documentary on a a cheese production operation where the cheese was made in a 3 story building and the curds were added to a tube from the 3rd story and the tube went all the way to the ground and at ground level they just cut out the bottom 6 inches or so every time they added some on the top. Continuous operation. Not sure what kind of cheese but it was really just sort of a tourism stunt. Has anyone seen this?
Nope but it sounds really kewl!
Just for clarification purposes. Muester is a good example of a cheese that can pretty much press itself by flipping the molds.
The Bain Marie pots are really cheap on E-Bay. Would make great molds, but stainless steel is really hard to drill.
That's something I hadn't even thought about Sailor a VERY good point!
To drill through SS, you should punch the drill area first so you can ride the bit in the punch. It's not difficult. Also, you need a very strong bit. Drilling 50 holes in a ss cylinder will be a little tough, but I have a drill press I can use to do the job.
I just made a cheese harp for cutting curds horizontally. Used 1/8" stainless. Went thru 4 titanium bits on my drill press. Anxious to see how it goes. Keep track of your time.
Try cobalt! You should get better results.
Thanks for the tip. I still have to make my vertical harp, so I will give that a shot.