Hey guys,
I'm having a heck of a time producing any cheese lately. I'm getting horrible curd set. What I mixed up last night is doing okay I guess so far. When I first put it through the cheese muslin, a lot of thin looking curd came through and then just whey started coming through fine, so it might turn out okay, but I doubt it. That's with regular milk. I'm doing the same recipe as always, but my kitchen is now about 65 degrees instead of 75 degrees like it was this summer. Is that enough of a difference to mess up the curdset? I'm afraid it is. Will a little more rennet help?
Here is my standard recipe:
1 gallon of whole milk and one pint of heavy cream warmed to 80F
add 10 drops calcium chloride
add 4oz cultured buttermilk
add 3 drops liquid veal rennet
let sit 12 hours
of course I stir a whole lot in that entire process, and warm the milk up slowly.
It's frustrating, and literally money down the drain! Any ideas?
Could you clarify what you mean by stir a whole lot? Once the rennet is added, it should be left alone to set, not stirred.
12 hours might not be enough but that being said. I think we need to know more about your process than stir a lot.
Do you dilute your rennet in water first? That might help distribute it throughout the milk better, helping with a better set, too.
Stuart, from what you've said it sounds like you didn't have a decent curd before hanging in cheesecloth and probably your lower room temperature is the culprit.
In primarily lactic acid cheeses (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Coagulation.htm) like American Neufchatel (low calorie Cream Cheese), temperature is a big driver in lactic acid generation and with time, a "solid" curd at a pH of 4.6 – 4.7 after anywhere from 4-24 hours. Did you get a solid curd and did you take a pH reading before hanging in cheese cloth?
Another big driver is the strength of your starter culture. Did you use fresh store bought Cultured Buttermilk, or had it been ripened (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Mesophilic_Culture.htm)?
Thanks for all the replies, guys.
I got a small yield from this batch. I'll taste it tomorrow and see if it's any good. It hung okay.
I was stirring with a whisk. I didn't know that I shouldn't stir after putting the rennet in. It's what I've always done, and no, I did not dilute it in water. I didn't dilute it the last time I got a good curdset.
I agree that temperature may be the culprit or a significant factor in the failure. I was thinking a small thermostat controlled aquarium heater may be a good way to keep it at a warmer, steady temperature?
It was cultured buttermilk that I bought last weekend. I did not take a pH reading, and I never have...
Basically in this batch the only factor that changed was the room temperature. I had tried a couple batches lately with a new goat milk and it's nice to get some ideas why that failed too.
Stuart, sounds like your yield was low as some of your solids escaped as milk rather than just the whey:
- Normally after stirring in rennet in an up and down motion for ~1 minute, it should not be disturbed and instead allowed to set, however for lactic acid cheeses, the temperature is too low to get a good curd set without the high drop in pH, regardless there is no need to stir after initial mixing.
- Pre-dilution of rennet before adding to milk is critical as it is very very concentrated and can lock up in a small area before becoming diluted resulting in just a small area being set.
- On temperature, small aquarium heater is probably a good idea, another is similar for making yogurt, some members use household oven with light left on inside, and some leave on top at back of household fridge where warmer.
- You really need to pre-ripen your cultured buttermilk to increase it's activity. Once done, you can freeze excess in ice cub trays and then use at "normal" 4 fluid ounces/4 ice cubes per 1 US gallon of milk.
- You don't need pH meter, just need to ensure pH has dropped enough to form curd before transferring to drainage bag, otherwise when in bag you will drain milk rather than just whey and as happened to this batch you will lose yield.
You should see the problems I had when I first started making cheese ::)!
Stuart,
For a 1 gallon batch it is far to much to stir the rennet for 1 minute. The rennet must be diluted and stirred for 15-20 seconds for 1 gallon of milk. May be you can check what types of bacteria is in your store bought buttermilk. You also should try different brands. I know, in my country there are manufacturers that weaken the bacteria strength to achieve a milder taste. You should maintain a temp of 22-24 deg C. For such a batch and even bigger. I use to wrap the covered vat with some wool blankets.
When I make Neuf in the cooler months, I put my pot of milk/curd into a larger pot of hot tap water, then cover it all with a towel to keep the warmth in. As it cools, I replace the tap water.
That might help you combat the cooler temps in your house.
Good luck - I hope you get some good Neuf soon!
You guys are great.
I did get a small yield of "cheese" but it did not look right and it sure didn't taste right.
I'm going to try keeping it in the oven with the light on. It's an incandescent bulb so it will output some heat. I'm going to leave the light on tonight with a thermometer in it and see how the temperature is. Think this will work, John?
I didn't know about ripening buttermilk but I read John's link and will do that for next time.
I want to try again soon!
Aw, man! failure again!
So I followed you guys' suggestion:
-I didn't stir the rennet much, and i diluted it in water before adding (water from the brita filter in the fridge)
-I ripened the buttermilk by letting it sit out at room temperature over night (same brand of buttermilk that I've had success with before)
-I kept the pot in the oven with the light on, and it was 73 degrees in there this morning when I removed it.
I used a knife to check the curd set before I strained and it was horrible. Poured it into the cheese cloth and most came out just like milk and then half of it stayed, and drained in a more normal fashion, but I've got enough experience to know it'd be junk.
Any more ideas? This is so frustrating. The rennet is veal rennet and has been kept in the fridge, purchased about 2 months ago.
Can you use too much CaCl? I used ten drops. Some of my old notes said that I used six drops.
I just wanna make some cheese!!! Thanks in advance, you guys are the nicest people on the internet.
I ripened the buttermilk at 65 degrees F probably, the lower room temperature. Should I have let it sit at 73 F or so in the oven with the light on?
Sorry, Stuart! I don't have any feedback regarding the CaCl, as I use raw milk. I hope someone else can help you out with your questions.
Stuart maybe you should leave it sit longer if you are getting a bad curd set?
Debi, how much longer do you think? 16 hours? 24 hours? Or should I just lift the lid and run a knife to check the curd set? It's harder to tell with soft cheese I think...
Hon I would check the same as you normally would. I use a sanitized butter knife to slip in and check a small section. Waiting another 6 to 12 hours is not uncommon.
Cheesemaking is so complicated! If I'm maintaining it at 73 degrees overnight, why do I still need to let it sit longer?
Thanks. I have to conquer this...
Just something in the combinations of method and materials. Don't get discouraged hon it will come together. Could be they have changed the milk. I am finding less and less places to get milk that ESL stuff is showing up everywhere. They even had a big sale on milk at one local chain store to get rid of the real milk so they could fill the shelves with this newfangled crap!
Besides ruining the benefits of milk what will this do to the poor farmers?
The benefit to a longer setting up time is a richer flavor in the final cheese, as well. I have had to let mine go as long as 18-24 hours to get clean break.
Well I guess I should get a new gallon of milk and try again! I'm going to let it sit from 8am tomorrow, check it tomorrow night, maybe let it sit overnight. Richer flavor sounds good.
What happens, tho, if you overdo it?
Unless you leave it sit for a few days I don't think you'll have a problem. This is the sort of cheese I would make after work and not even have a chance to look at it again until the follow night after work. 24 hours is not a long time.