I recently started using Star-san as a contact sanitizer. It is sold as a no rinse product but I am concerned about the residual effects. For example, if you dip a curd knife into Star-san and then cut curds, doesn't the germicidal effect just transfer into the vat? If no, then why not?
Wipe it on a paper towel after. Sanitizer can/will affect the bacteria and the rennet if you get to much in there. Some contain iodine too and we know what that does. I can not remember if Star San has iodine or not.
Yes, wet star san will transfer to curds. It's made of a mix of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. The idea behind star san is it disinfects and then leaves the stainless in an acid state, making it a poor environment for bacteria. At 300 PPM, star san is no rinse, meaning it doesn't affect the curds much. If you go with a higher concentration, you need to rinse.
The only true non-rinse sanitizer would be 80% ethanol, you just have to let it evaporate first. That is the sanitizer that I use, very effective, it is what they use in microbiology laboratories.
When I started using StarSan six montha ago I was concerned with the potential effect on my septic system. After a little research I concluded that a quart hear and there was trivial compared to a 20K gal tank.
I terms of use while in production I always give the tools a quick shot of hot water to rinse away any large scale residual residue before any contact with the curds, etc.
Cheers, Steve
I have used Star-san for years now.
While i know that it is billed as a no-rinse sanitizer, I never use tools, tubing, pans, whatever, when its still foamy or wet with it.
Its either wiped dry, or allowed to dry...
Okay this leads me to a question.
If I rinse or wipe a utensil after it has been sanitzed (either by boiling or Star San or any other method of sterilization) aren't I then exposing the surface/curds to bacteria from the tap water or item with which I use to wipe a utensil dry?
In my humble opinion, There are three levels of hygiene.
1>clean: obvious food particles, gunk, grime is removed
2>disinfected: Sanitation efforts required to kill most harmful organisms
3>Sterilized: Devoid of all life.
You are only going to get to level 2 unless you have an autoclave, and even then, I'm not sure its necessary for us here.
Level 2 is adequate for most home winemakers, bakers, cooks and cheesemakers. That is why Star-San is only referred to as a sanitizer, not a sterilizer. It does a good job of eliminating most pathogens that cause spoilage.
That being said, I am not worried about e-coli or phage coming from a fresh paper towel or my city tap water.
Good point Wayne.
Zinger before looking at residual bacteria in tap water or paper towels I would look more at the hands that held the paper towel or hands that will pick up the utensil afterwards. You can always rinse with preboiled water if you are worried about water bacteria. If you compared the bacteria levels in tap water to that on your hands you would be astounded. Look for the weakest point in sanitation and that is what you focus on.
Thanks Wayne and driekus. I've been paranoid about cleanliness so far and I will continue to be so, but I had wondered about the issues to which I asked.
Thanks again.
All this said, there are still airborne wild bacteria the cheese makers of the last several thousand years had none of these products and probably were very unsanitary compared to what we are doing.
Thus I believe it is really the right acidification and salting that promotes wanted bacteria, enzymes, and yeasts and stops or rather reduces unwanted mold growth in cheese making.
Being a homebrewer I use a LOT of Star San. I was worried about the residual left overs until I heard an interview with the inventor and owner of Five Star Chemicals. Since Star San is an acid sanitizer the key is the PH. Once the residue is no longer acidic it is no longer a sanitizer, and the left over compounds actually revert to a state that is healthy for yeast. Not sure about anything other than brewers yeast but I always rack my cooled wort onto Star San foam and I have never had an issue with fermentation since I started.
In fact I have talked to a number of homebrewers who have switched to Star San over the years and many of them have said that the planters they dump their rinse water, including Star San, into have never been as happy as they are with Star San dumped on them, especially Roses. No Iodophor, which is another popular Homebrewing sanitizer, is not a no rinse sanitizer and scares me.
Don't fear the foam.
Helpful presentation on cleanliness.. Geared for winemakers, but much of this applies to cheesemaking too.
I liked these definitions...
Cleaning: Removing Soil and/or Biofilm
Sanitizing: Log 3 Reduction (99.9%) of Microorganisms in System
Disinfection: Log 5 Reduction (99.999%) of Microorganisms in System
Sterilizing: Complete Elimination of Life
Nice little presentation Wayne thanks!
Where can I buy this Star-San?
Quote from: Wayne Harris on December 30, 2009, 08:23:02 PM
While i know that it is billed as a no-rinse sanitizer, I never use tools, tubing, pans, whatever, when its still foamy or wet with it.
It's fine to be used foamy in beer fermenters, but with cheese I can believe it wouldn't be good.
Truth be told, I always rinse. And dry.
But I use both of these,
(https://morewinemaking.com/images/thumb/phpThumb.php?src=/product_images/morebeer.com/1/7232.jpg&w=250&h=250&far=C&fltr[%5D=wmi%7C../../themes/morewinepro/images/thumbnail_watermark.png%7CC%7C15)
Star San is an acid based sanitizer that is quick, odorless, tasteless and safe for most materials except softer metals. Use of 1 oz per 5 gallons of water and a contact time of 1 minute makes Star San very economical and convenient.
As a high foamer, Star San's foaming action insures coverage and contact time in larger vessels and better penetration into nooks and crannys. Any foam that is left over in your carboy or keg will not harm your beer or you, and is perfectly safe and non-toxic, nor will it impart any flavors or odors.
Can buy here: (https://morewinemaking.com/view_product/16023/103305/Star_San_-_32_oz)
and this:
(https://morewinemaking.com/images/thumb/phpThumb.php?src=/product_images/morebeer.com/1/2057.jpg&w=250&h=250&far=C&fltr[%5D=wmi%7C../../themes/morewinepro/images/thumbnail_watermark.png%7CC%7C15)
SaniClean is the low-foam version of Star San. With a contact time of 2-3 minutes it is not as fast as Star San, but works as well. You also have to use twice as much, 2 oz per 5 gallons, for the same effect. However if you are using a pump it is the right choice. SaniClean is also known as a flavor and odor removal, making it the perfect choice for acid rinsing your dispensing equipment. Made by the same company that makes Star San and PBW and packaged in the same easy to use container as the 32 oz Star San.)
Can buy here: (https://morewinemaking.com/view_product/16025/103305/Final_Acid_Rinse_-_Saniclean_32_oz)
does using this stuff mean you don't have to boil everything?
I'm assuming you'd only use it on hard equipment like pots, molds, and whisks, but not on soft stuff like cheese cloth or bamboo mats.
I clean everything first. Removing solid matter and boifilm.
Then I use Starsan on everything.,Including me!
I dunk my hands in the solution before every cheesemaking endeavor.
And yes, I soak cheese cloth, muslin, tools, hoses, spoons, pan.
Basically anything coming in contact with the milk.
Even temp and pH probes..
Yeah, it's just a sanitizer. This stuff isn't a cleanser.
After cleaning everything off with proper abrasives or such, you submerge or coat with SS for a couple minutes and it is germ free.
I'm certain you don't need it, but it makes sanitizing very easy and quick without the burning chemicals norma;;y used for sanitizing food equip.
Someone asked where to buy. MoreBeer.com(same company as morewine.com) is a great source and they are great people. Northernbrewer.com is another great national homebrew shop. If you look around you should be able to find a local homebrew shop. Most will carry the five star products.