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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Grana (Grating Cheesee) => Topic started by: wharris on December 28, 2009, 01:36:54 PM

Title: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on December 28, 2009, 01:36:54 PM
Batch 2 of 3 of the Parm Marathon. 
There are just a couple of tweaks here.

Adjustments
1>2.0g of TA61 (was 1.6g)
2>9.08g of Kid Lipase (was 10.9g)
3> gonna try and measure floc time.

Indredients:
24gal 2% past/homogenized milk
(2.0g) TA61
(2.8g) LH100
9.08g Kid Lipase
12 tsp CaCl2 (1/4cup)
18.5ml rennet dilluted in 3.1 cups of distilled water

Data:


























TimeTaskWater TempMilk TemppH
9:35Start110526.81
9:36added CaCL110526.75
9:38Started heating110526.70
10:15added culture97906.58*
10:56added rennet97936.49*
11:09Floc Time (13min)9793no data
11:22Floc Time X29793no data
11:23Curd Cut97936.60**
11:28end of 5 min heal, begin cooking.9793no data
12:45end of cooking1331246.30

Comments
*My milk is very very acidic.  not sure why.
I re-calibrated my pH meter and still my milk is just getting very acidic.
Does milk sitting in a 45-50 deg garage floor get more acidic?
**Seriously?  what the hell?....[very frustrating...]


Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on December 28, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
Making Parmesan. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqT69URib2g#)
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 29, 2009, 04:26:02 AM
Nice video Wayne thanks! Those curds looked really even you did an awsome job cutting.  Good luck.

As for the cement floor making your milk acidic ... I recent discovered the same problem but I thought maybe it was just me. I wonder if the lime leaches through somehow?
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: MrsKK on December 29, 2009, 03:34:28 PM
How long has your milk been sitting?  I would think that it gets more acidic the older it gets, but I doubt that it has any connection to your cement floor, as the milk is stored in plastic jugs.

I know that I had too acidic mozz when I used raw milk that was over week old.  I thought it would be an excellent use for older milk, but it turned into curdled milk that wouldn't come together.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Tea on December 29, 2009, 08:49:19 PM
I was reading somewhere that milk that is over three days old shouldn't be used for cheese making.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on December 29, 2009, 09:51:35 PM
Well, we are gonna test that, because today i am running a 104 fever and have coughed up pieces of my lungs (well, it feels that way)

Not making the 3rd batch today, and might not tomorrow.  God I had to waste the milk, but i'm just not up to it.

IT was all the strength I could muster to pull the 2nd wheel out of the form and put it in the brine.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 30, 2009, 03:44:25 AM
Sorry to hea that Wayne - prayers headed your way for a speedy recovery and stable milk!
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: zenith1 on December 30, 2009, 04:11:50 AM
I wouldn't think anything would be passing through the plastic jugs from the floor. I think I would be more concerned from a health standpoint about what is in the milk due to the plastic containers. As far a the age of the milk, unless you are using farm fresh 2-3 days is about as fresh as you are going to get. Here in New York there is a chain of stores that started out just selling dairy products. The Stewart's Shops. They guarantee the the milk is from the farm to the stores in 2 days. That is pretty good. I'm sure that there must be a fall in the PH during that time normally, but what is that number in real terms?
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Tea on December 31, 2009, 03:26:33 AM
Wayne I hope there is someone there that can look after you.  Been laid low twice this year and it's not nice.  Prayers are for a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: MrsKK on December 31, 2009, 01:23:02 PM
I'm sorry you are so sick, Wayne.  That high of a temp is only good for thermophilic cheeses - not so much for an adult human being!

Take care of yourself - your health is much more important than not-so-few gallons of milk!
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on December 31, 2009, 06:51:03 PM
Thanks for the kinds words.
My temperature has fallen, and I am feeling slightly better.  Still caughing and am a bit weak. (h1n1, monkey pox, bird flu.....)  i dunno
either way, my wife is home and all is looking good now.

The milk however is still on the floor.
I may just be the neighborhood milk fairy and distribute it for neighborhood cornflakes...

Again, thanks for the kind words
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: kawatiri kaas on January 01, 2010, 06:26:46 AM
Thanks for the work you put into making the video. It's always so nice to see cheese being made in a real home setting. Like your curd cutting technique and cool knife. What flocc. multiplier did you use? How do you sterilize your equipment. Man, that's some large capacity gear you've got there!
Cheers.
PS Hope you're feeling better by now.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: MrsKK on January 02, 2010, 07:01:47 AM
I'm glad you are feeling better, Wayne.  sorry you may not be able to make another huge batch of cheese, though.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Likesspace on January 03, 2010, 01:38:09 AM
Wayne....
I'm just now catching up on my reading and saw your post.
First of all I'm hoping that you are feeling better and secondly that video is really impressive.
I really don't know how you can make a cheese AND produce a video!
Most of the time, just working through the make and hitting my Ph marks is enough to leave me feeling exhausted.
Great work and sorry about not getting batch #3 in. Hopefully things are going much better for you now.

Dave
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on January 03, 2010, 10:51:49 AM
Wayne, looks like you are over with the flu. That instructional video is awesome. Thank you for the effort. I shared your video on my Home Cheese Maker page on FB; hope you don't mind.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on January 03, 2010, 02:44:28 PM
Flu is still lingering.   But its down to a persistant cough. The good news is that I'm getting strength back.

The last 24 gallons of 2% will have to be tossed. That sucks so bad. 

No prob linking the vid.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: FarmerJd on January 03, 2010, 03:08:20 PM
Wayne, I just read this thread and am sorry you are having such a rough time. I hope you recover soon. If you were close enough I would love to replace the milk for you just so we could all watch another video. :)  Tea's comment about the thermo culture and temp of 104 is classic. Anything over 104 is getting critical for meso bacteria and people. Hang in there.
I really wonder how long it takes to get the milk from cow to store in most places.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Alex on January 03, 2010, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: FarmerJd on January 03, 2010, 03:08:20 PM
I really wonder how long it takes to get the milk from cow to store in most places.

In my country - Israel, milk and it's products are in stores and supermarkets within 3-6 days since milking the cows.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Tea on January 03, 2010, 08:44:08 PM
Well Wayne glad to hear the you are well on the mend, though a shame about the milk.

Well just a couple of questions if I may.   I noticed that you use your culture in a direct vat set. I was under the impression that the cultures took 12-15 hours to start working, which was why they had to be prepared the night before.  You then say, "leave and let them do their thing", so how long do you leave in cultures in the milk before proceeding to the next step?

Also I noticed that you diluted the rennet at much more than 10 times.  Is there a reason why you do this also?
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on January 03, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
DVI:
I never knew about the night before thing with the DVI.  Will have to look into that.

Rennet:
I use the rennet from Diary Connection (http://www.dairyconnection.com/rennet.htm).
the directions suggest a dillution rate of 40 times the volume of rennet.
So, at that rate, with 18.5ml of rennet needed, i needed 740ml of distilled water.

Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: linuxboy on January 03, 2010, 09:31:34 PM
Tea, I've never heard that before. Curious about where you read it. Everything I've read and tested suggests that DVI culture rehydrates and becomes active in 30-60 minutes.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Oude Kaas on January 04, 2010, 03:34:16 AM
Hence direct
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Tea on January 05, 2010, 09:04:52 PM
Oude Kaas, yes I realize that it is direct which is why I have been confused by this term.

So I went back to my books, and I think I have found the problem.    At the beginning of the book is a section on how to culture the starters ready for use.  They say, "if you are preparing your own starters, .... until the milk curdles (12-20 hours)."  This was for a Type A culture.   Then it has a graph showing how the starters can be used  and states, "Is the DVS suitable for adding directly into the milk, ... yes... is the volume less than 20 ltr ... yes ... prepare you own liquid starter, and incubate.", which is were I got the idea that the starters had to be incubated first before they could be used.

This is what I read when I was first starting out, and understanding very little about the process.  My mistake is in not going back over this, and realizing that it is only talking about small quantities of milk being used, and the impracticality of trying to measure out the correct amount of starter for small batches.  I have since read where when used directly into the milk, wait 30-40 mins for the starter to become active.

So while I am only doing small batches I am assuming that it is still better for me to incubate the starters?

My apologies Gentlemen for the misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on February 26, 2010, 01:48:48 AM
I cracked this this weekend.  Why?
It was an experinment.  I only wanted to see what the inside looked like.
It was very hard and much like you would expect a parm to look like. The rind was hard and solidly formed.
It had swollen slightly.  (is that normal?)

More importantly, the taste was of a oh-so slightly creamy, parmesan.
A bit more moisture than a noramal parm.
Other than that, it was really good.

After only 6 weeks.  I was amazed at how good it tasted.  So good in fact, this wheel is now gone.  It has been completely cut up and distributed to the neighbors..

I've heard that it went into parm shrimp, Vodka pasta, and loads of spaghetti.
Anyway,  It turned out...

Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2010, 04:05:51 AM
Wayne it looks really good! I think you got it knocked! I don't think I've ever had one swell they usually shrink but as it is only 6 weeks old maybe it looked swolen because the sides were drawing in as the are thinner and dry faster. In any case great job!
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: cmharris6002 on February 26, 2010, 10:30:57 AM
Nice looking cheese! I'm glad to hear the flavor was good after only 6 weeks.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: MrsKK on February 26, 2010, 03:46:34 PM
Nice!  I never would have thought that the flavor would develop so quickly.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on February 26, 2010, 07:41:55 PM
Well, its good flavor,  Its just not a mature flavor.
There is no subtle nutty flavor to this. 
This is a young, immature, pungent parmesan that has not yet developed the complexity that only comes with time on the shelf.

But still.  dang tasty.  Worth eatin...
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: jackdag on February 26, 2010, 10:33:32 PM
I wayne great video, where u get ur wristh, i love that
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on February 27, 2010, 11:48:47 AM
Quote from: Quebec_Poutine on February 26, 2010, 10:33:32 PM
I wayne great video, where u get ur wristh, i love that

Thanks.   But I'm not sure what you are asking.
Sorry
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 27, 2010, 07:00:02 PM
Whusk maybe? The wizards wand?  ;D
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on October 07, 2010, 02:06:38 AM
Just an update:

I am currently getting a fair amount of static from "parmagolosa (http://www.youtube.com/user/parmagolosa)" and "nickgarrett28 (http://www.youtube.com/user/nickgarrett28)"on youtube.

These guys run some kind of tour business to Italian Parmesan plants.  (Which is very cool btw).

But these guy seem to have taken great umbrage to my video on Youtube, calling my cheese "parmesan".

They may correct, my cheese is not a true parmesan,  but more correctly a "grana" cheese.

They seem trollish, but I think they may be correct. 
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: ConnieG on October 07, 2010, 02:46:03 PM
Trolls stink. >:( They have you on a technicality, but geez how impressive it that!  I hadn't seen your video before and so was pleased to watch it and see your work.  I am impressed with your cheese dungeon!  Hey.... maybe those chains would hold trolls!
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: linuxboy on October 07, 2010, 03:10:30 PM
Well, if they want to be pedantic about it, they are not correct. In the USA, per 21 CFR 133.165, the standards of identity define what may be called Parmesan. And pretty sure (nobody has done the lab work) your make would yield the appropriate moisture and fat levels. Your make process also follows the acceptable identity standards.

In Europe, the DOP protection is extended ONLY to "Parmigiano-Reggiano", and NOT "Parmesan".

So, sir, your cheese is a true parmesan  per US standards, where you live. It is not, however, parmigiano-reggiano, nor is it Grana Padano (another DOP cheese). Or to be more exact it is a Parmesan, which is a grana-family cheese.

The point of DOP protection is to extend protection to true and legitimate products whose authenticity can be verified. You can't just extend DOP protection to names that are in common use, like Parmesan.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: MrsKK on October 07, 2010, 03:58:47 PM
I just gotta say I love you guys!  I am fly by the seat of my pants, run *mostly* on emotion (because I am female)...any kind of an issue comes up and you guys can nail it on the head with facts and statistics.

I just love it!
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: wharris on October 07, 2010, 04:40:52 PM
Fantastic response LB. 
Thank you.  I feel better.
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: FarmerJd on October 07, 2010, 06:02:34 PM
I am just glad Linux is one of the good guys and uses his powers for good. ;D
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: linuxboy on October 07, 2010, 11:25:59 PM
I don't know, JD... just this morning I completely decimated billions of helpless bacteria in their natural milk-surrounded environment by putting them IN MAH BELLEY!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHA.

:) :P
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: ConnieG on October 08, 2010, 02:27:50 AM
Does this mean we can't chain the trolls to the cheese pot?  >:D Darn....
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 09, 2010, 03:19:54 AM
Wayne just tell them "Attacchilo!"
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Tar on October 15, 2010, 08:39:19 PM
Is it true that Parmesan is only a translation of  Parmigiano ?
This is not a question of law (DOP),
This is a question of logic
DOP or no DOP, it is not posible to make famous Spanish ham out of Spain.
But it is posibile to make it a la
and it is posible to make it even better!
Once great artisan cheese Parmesan(Parmigiano) is now made in 2.5-3 000 000 wheels (  2.946.384 in 2009.)  30-60 kgs each. Its gross price is 7-9€/kg (7.3€ average in 2009.)
So my suggestion (to all of us) is to call it a la  and I hope son to hear for "Waynegiano"  ;)
Title: Re: Wayne's Parm122809
Post by: Likesspace on November 06, 2010, 04:58:58 AM
Wayne, I say screw em.

If I make something that looks like parmesan, smells like parmesan and tastes like parmesan, guess what I'm going to call it?

Sometimes people get a little too hung up on the name game. I do this simply for the enjoyment of the make and the compliments that I get from my efforts.

Of course all I ever get is compliments since any of my disasters are quickly hidden from anyone but myself. That's simply a benefit of being the cheesemaker.


Dave