Hi guys.....
For the past month or so I've been trying to perfect a Gouda recipe, that would turn out the type of cheese that I want my own Goudas to be.
This is my own recipe that is a mixture of several different pieces of information I've gathered from the internet.
One thing that I found while making this recipe is that each recipe differs from one another and that in some cases they differ drastically. I've tried all of them individually and was never completely happy with the results.
This particular Gouda was made on 12-18-2009 and it is by far the best example of this cheese that I've made to date.
I did make one batch previous to this one but it....well, quite literally sucked mostly due to the fact that I wasn't paying attention and used MA starter culture instead of MM100 (HUGE MISTAKE).
Anyway, this batch did turn out as planned.
The cheese is nice and soft, nice and pliable and has just a hint of sharpness at two weeks old. Of course the flavor hasn't developed just yet, but the Gouda flavor is definitely there. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one progresses over the next couple of months.
Just as it seems to be with every cheese, Ph is the key to this one.
All of my previous batches had a somewhat crumbly texture and a sharpness (that bordered on bitter) right out of the mold.
Since I am focusing on hitting my Ph markers, I feel that I am finally getting a handle on this variety of cheese, as well as a few others. This makes me happy. :-)
Anyway, here are a couple of pics of the sample wedge I sliced out of a 4.5 lb. wheel. I can't wait to see what this one will become with another month or two of aging.
Dave
Oh......
I honestly don't know of the holes in the wedge are actual "eyes" or if these are mechanical openings.
I know they do not have a nice round appearance, but I've also seen these same types of openings in some of my "failed" swiss attempts.
I know that a properly made Gouda should have a few eyes but I really don't know if they should be round or if they look like the ones in the photographs. If anyone has any insight I'd love to hear your input.
Dave
Dave
IMHO those are eyes. They are fairly evenly spaced and round for the most part. Most mechanical openings are irregular and randomly distributed. I think this cheese is a winner! Congrats!
This cheese is only two weeks old?
Dave,
Really nice, would you consider posting your recipe?
Zinger
Debi, thanks for the encouraging words. I am happy with this one.
Chee....yep, two weeks old yesterday. As I said I'm really looking forward to cracking this again in another month or so. In the meantime I have a quarter wheel to nibble on and I'm trying to nibble slowly so I can check the aging process over the next few weeks.
Zinger, I'm more than happy to post the recipe. It is pretty much built around Ph markers so I'm afraid that it will really only benefit those that use a Ph meter. I hope this recipe works well for you, if you decide to give it a try.
Here it is:
Gouda
Ingredients:
4 Gallon Whole Milk
1/4 tsp. MM100 Culture
2 tsp Calcium Chloride mixed in ¼ cup distilled water
1/16 tsp Annatto mixed in ¼ cup distilled water
3/4 tsp liquid veal rennet dissolved in ¼ cup distilled water
Process:
Heat milk to 86 degrees
Add colorant and mix well
Add MM100 culture and float for 2 minutes
Stir in culture using 25 up and down strokes
Allow milk to ripen for 5 minutes
Add Calcium Chloride
5 minutes later add Rennet and stir for 1 minute
Check for flocculation and use multiplier of 3 to determine time to cut
Check for clean break and cut to 3/8"
Heal curd for 5 minutes
Gently stir curd for approx. 20 minutes while checking Ph.
During this time heat pot of water to 130 degrees on stove.
You are looking for a whey Ph of 6.4 to 6.45 before moving to next step
At Ph 6.4 – 6.45 Drain 5 cups of whey and replace with 5 cups of 130 degree water.
Wait 5 minutes and Drain 6 cups of whey and replace with 6 cups of 130 degree water.
Wait 5 minutes and drain 6 cups of whey and replace with 6 cups of 130 degree water.
You will have drained the whey 3 times at the end of this process.
Whey temp should be at 100 – 102 degrees at this point.
If not at 100 – 102 heat the curds and whey to this temperature.
Continue to stir for 20 minutes after 102 is reached. Only stir occasionally.
Allow curd to settle for 5 minutes.
Drain whey to 2 inches above the curd mass.
Press curd under whey for 10 minutes using approx. 8 lbs. Of weight.
Drain whey very well before putting into hoop.
Break up curd mass to fit in cloth lined hoop and use the following to press:
30 minutes at 2 p.s.i.
30 minutes at 4 p.s.i.
Approximately 3 hours at 4 p.s.i. or until whey Ph reaches 5.6 – 5.7 (curd Ph = 5.4 – 5.5)
**NOTE**
WHEY PH SHOULD BE 5.6 – 5.7 AT END OF PRESSING!!
Remove from press and float wheel in a saturated brine solution for 3 – 4 hours PER POUND of cheese. (first attempt required 16 hour brine time using 4 hr. per pound).
Age cheese for 2 weeks – 2 months before consuming.
Vacuum bag cheese after air drying for 1 – 3 days or until dry to the touch.
Dave, I will try the recipe, thanks for posting. I recently started using a ph meter and so I am eager to start using recipes that are gudied by ph markers. Do you know what your ph was at the time of curd cut?
Zinger
Zinger,
On this particular cheese the Ph reading at cut was 6.43.
Honestly, that seems a little low since I show draining and washing right on schedule but that is what I have on my making record.
I have noticed that MM100 is a slow adcidifier so that reading is probably right. The most important point to hit is at beginning of wash and at end of press. I really feel that if you hit these two markers you will be happy with the final result.
Of course now that I've made this recipe twice, (and have only seen one sample of the cheese it turns out), I am now an expert on the subject. ;D
Honestly, I hope it works for you. I'm going to be making this one again next weekend along with a stirred cheddar.
Dave
Dave want I want to know is ...
How do you slice your cheese so thin? Mine always sticks to the knife. I even bought one of the knives with the holes in it and it still sticks. >:(
Dave - Good job and a great way to start the new year! I am curious about your ripening time...very short. Did you arrive at that by experimentation or some other clue? I am one of those folks plagued by crumbly, sour cheese and I am pursuing strategies for correcting that problem. An extremely short ripening period looks to be in my future. I did that with my Edam and it was not dry, crumbly, and sour. Your example encourages me.
Debi - I use a cheese wire to slice my cheeses thin. Thanks to Wayne, I'll be making a wheel-slicing wire. :)
-Boofer-
My goudas were all quite flakey and odd under 3 weeks old. I found 4 weeks was the start of good-enough 4 gallon Gouda.
I'm waiting patiently for Wednesday when my giant gouda reaches 7 weeks, then I open.
Boofer..
The short ripening time did come from experimentation.
There was one recipe on the internet that called for adding rennet at the same time as the culture and others varied widely.
I figured that since my cheese always had a crumbly texture that I was producing too much acid. I then began to play around with the ripening times to see if I could figure out where I needed to be.
Although this is the first year that I've tried making my own recipe I've been playing with this aspect of the recipe for a while. Knowing, (guessing), that acid was my problem I just kept shortening the ripening time from one batch to the next. I honestly can't say that I saw much improvement but I also was not keeping an eye on Ph readings throughout the make since I just purchased a meter last year. Once I did start using my meter during the entire make I feel that the quality of the cheese has improved drastically.
Mainly I look for any drop in my Ph reading. The recipe says a total of 10 minutes ripening but as long as I see a drop I know I'm good to go. This does almost always occur at the 10 minute mark but I'm not saying that this is a time period that has to be followed exactly.
Debi.....
I do use a wire to cut my cheeses. I purchased a simple cheese slicer at our local Wal Mart store for something like $10.00. It is setup to cut a 1/4 inch slice but I sometimes will "freehand" the cut if I want a slice to be thinner. In this case I wanted to show the elasticity of the cheese, so I cut it as thin as possible.
Chee....
I've honestly never been satisfied with my Gouda no matter how long I aged them. Some of them had a nice flavor but none had the texture of the Gouda I've purchased in the store. I honestly had given over to the thought that it was impossible for a home cheese maker to produce the texture that is found in store bought cheese.
Well thanks to information found on this forum, (concerning what happens within a cheese, i.e. the science behind the make) I started to re-think everything about making cheese. I'm far from an expert but I do feel that I'm on my way to making some really nice cheese in the future.
What really gets me about this is that I don't know if my family and friends will like the type of Gouda that I'm producing now.
I know my dad always said that he didn't really care for commercial Gouda and thought mine was much better. Well I really expect this cheese to turn into something that is very close to a commercial example so my dad might not care for it. :D
Regardless, my goal has always been to produce commercial quality cheese in the home setting and I now feel that I'm getting close to accomplishing this.
I guess I can always make an old style batch for my dad, once in awhile, if he begins to complain. :)
Dave
Oh, and Baby Chee.....
Good luck on your opening on Wednesday! I sincerely hope the cheese turns out for you. I've looked at your post concerning this wheel and it really is a monster!
Dave
Likesspace, thanks for the recipe. You put a lot of effort into this recipe to perfect it. You are my hero. I wouldn't complain a bit when eating this cheese if I had a chance of course. ::)
I am ordering an IQ125 pH meter soon but will try this recipe with my pH strips once. I am still waiting to use my titratable acidity kit. I might give it a try with your recipe. A)
Thanks again for the recipe...
Congrats Dave, isn't it great when something FINALLY turns out where you want it.
Nicely done Dave.
I Will make this my next cheese based on this.
Gurkan, Tea and Wayne.....thanks for the posts.
It really does feel nice when something goes as planned. Especially so when you've put in the time and effort to make it so.
I will say this......
I did put some time in on building this recipe but without the good and knowledgeable people on this forum I would still be turning out the same old bitter and crumbly cheese I have in the past.
The success that is shown on this forum constantly challenges me to do better in my own cheese making and the great thing is that the members also are willing to share their experiences and their knowledge.
In short, I think this is by far the best cheese making resource available.
Oh, and Wayne......
I really hope that it works out for you. Now that you are doing those monster batches of cheese, it makes me a little nervous that you will be trying a recipe that I posted. :-\
GOOD LUCK!
Dave
Well done Dave!
Thanks Jd!
Today I made another batch of this cheese and FINALLY hit my final Ph marker (at end of press) on the money. This sort of surprised me since I was getting some pretty rapid Ph drop early on.
Instead of using only a 1/4 tsp. MM100 culture I also added an 1/8 tsp. of Flora Danica to the mix. I did this because Debi said that she really liked the flavor it added and because Wayne said he uses straight Flora Danica when making Gouda.
When I checked for Ph drop after adding culture I had already gone from 6.66 (new milk) to 6.48. At this point I was certain that the addition of Flora Danica was going to make me miss my drain marker.
I added my rennet right away, cut in 27 minutes, (using spinning bowl method), and proceeded from there.
At washing I was right on the money and as I said before also came out perfectly on my final press Ph.
All in all it was an interesting experiment and according to final flavor I will probably do this again on future batches.
What amazes me about this cheese is that during the press the cheese actually has the feel and appearance of bread dough. When turning I leave some pretty deep fingerprints in the wheel.
I've never seen this on any other cheese but it lets me know that things are going right with this one.
All in all this is a fun cheese to make and the time period to make is short enough that there is plenty of time to do other things on the same day.
Dave
Bread dough is a good description. I think this is what I called a soft natural sponge feeling on my last cheese. Really feels weird to me, but I have several cheeses that do that.
I find the bread dough example as a good description of my gouda experience as well. This is also true of my first colby which I just made. I guess that makes sense, since they are both washed curd cheeses. I hope this is the appropriate result.
It has always worked for me Zinger even if it does seem strange. Kind of like those commercials for memory foam beds huh?
Hi,
Can you guys please tell me if you use raw or store milk? Do you add the cal. chloride to raw milk? I am also trying to perfect gouda as it is usually crumbly/slightly bitter. Only once have I made a really yummy "bought" type gouda. I am off to buy a ph meter to try your recipe Dave, hopefully it will result in more standard cheese.
Jude.
Quote from: Likesspace on January 02, 2010, 07:29:54 PM
Three Questions
Quote from: Likesspace on January 02, 2010, 07:29:54 PM
Add MM100 culture and float for 2 minutes
Stir in culture using 25 up and down strokes
Allow milk to ripen for 5 minutes
Add Calcium Chloride
5 minutes later add Rennet and stir for 1 minute
Check for flocculation and use multiplier of 3 to determine time to cut
Check for clean break and cut to 3/8"
Heal curd for 5 minutes
1. What does "check for flocculation and use multiplier of 3 to determine cut" mean?
I'm lost.
2. So you only check for pH AFTER cutting the curd?
I thought you were supposed to check for pH at different various times of cooking, like for instance after adding the rennet to ascertain if the milk has acidified enough and then after the bacteria to ascertain when the cheese is ready to be cut, etc. so on and so forth.
3. In trying to decide what type of curd knife I want to buy from Cartierrusm, I couldnt help but notice that your recipe calls for a 3/8" one, when all the ones I've ever heard of are either 1/4" or 1/2".
So can you tell me the effect it would make on one's cheese if one was to cut with a 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch knife as opposed to a 3/8 inch one?
Because according to Cartier in his own words:
" even though most reciepes will call for 3/8" it's not necessary. When you understand cheese making you'll see what I mean. It's more of the technique of cheese making than curd size."
Judec - Dave was using store bought milk - hence the Calcium chloride.
Quote from: humble_servant7 on January 21, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
Quote from: Likesspace on January 02, 2010, 07:29:54 PM
Three Questions
1. What does "check for flocculation and use multiplier of 3 to determine cut" mean?
I'm lost.
To keep it simple - Flocculation is the separation of a solution. In our case we are separating the curds from the whey.
The simplest way to see this and find the flocculation point (begining) is to note the time you added your rennet and set a light weight bowl on top of the milk and spin it. Do this until the bowl no longer wants to spin. The amount of time it takes for the milk to thicken sufficently to stop the bowl from spining is the flocculation point. This time is then multiplied by the multipler in this case 3 to give you the total amount of time it should take before you cut your curds. Let's say fr example the bowl stops spinning in 7 minutes, multiply the 7 minutes times the multipler of 3 to get a total time before cutting the curds of 21 minutes.
Different style of cheese have different amounts of time for the curds firm to the right consistancy. There are predetermined multiplers used as a guide to predict when this will happen so the curds can be cut at the right time. In the case of Gouda the mutipler is 3.
2. So you only check for pH AFTER cutting the curd?
I thought you were supposed to check for pH at different various times of cooking, like for instance after adding the rennet to ascertain if the milk has acidified enough and then after the bacteria to ascertain when the cheese is ready to be cut, etc. so on and so forth.
For the home cheesemaker it is generally only done after you cut the curds. Checking the pH of the milk could be done if you needs to change the acidty of the milk because it was sour or gassey or something but that is generally beyond the scope of a home cheesemaker. So the first of several pH checks is after cutting.
There are several point that the pH can be checked, after cutting, heating, washing etc depending on the style of cheese.
3. In trying to decide what type of curd knife I want to buy from Cartierrusm, I couldnt help but notice that your recipe calls for a 3/8" one, when all the ones I've ever heard of are either 1/4" or 1/2".
So can you tell me the effect it would make on one's cheese if one was to cut with a 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch knife as opposed to a 3/8 inch one?
Smaller curds make drier cheese, bigger curds make moister cheese. The size is based on the type of cheese. That being said. Curds are initally cut to a given sized but during cooking are often cut smaller by stirring. If one set of knives are all you plan to buy I would get larger ones say 1/2 inch. You can cut twice to make smaller curds but you can't glue curds back together again.
Because according to Cartier in his own words:
" even though most reciepes will call for 3/8" it's not necessary. When you understand cheese making you'll see what I mean. It's more of the technique of cheese making than curd size."
Quote from: DeejayDebi on January 22, 2010, 02:52:16 AM
GREAT responses!
Quote from: DeejayDebi on January 22, 2010, 02:52:16 AM
To keep it simple - Flocculation is the separation of a solution. In our case we are separating the curds from the whey.
The simplest way to see this and find the flocculation point (begining) is to note the time you added your rennet and set a light weight bowl on top of the milk and spin it. Do this until the bowl no longer wants to spin. The amount of time it takes for the milk to thicken sufficently to stop the bowl from spining is the flocculation point. This time is then multiplied by the multipler in this case 3 to give you the total amount of time it should take before you cut your curds. Let's say fr example the bowl stops spinning in 7 minutes, multiply the 7 minutes times the multipler of 3 to get a total time before cutting the curds of 21 minutes.
Different style of cheese have different amounts of time for the curds firm to the right consistancy. There are predetermined multiplers used as a guide to predict when this will happen so the curds can be cut at the right time. In the case of Gouda the mutipler is 3.
Hmmm... sounds rather unreliable...
Is there any other way of doing this. Like with a gadget of sorts or something?
I like to make sure I am GUARANTEED to have an excellent end product and rater would rely on science and scientific instruments to properly give me the accurate measurements.
Anything you can recommend?
Quote from: DeejayDebi on January 22, 2010, 02:52:16 AM
For the home cheesemaker it is generally only done after you cut the curds. Checking the pH of the milk could be done if you needs to change the acidty of the milk because it was sour or gassey or something but that is generally beyond the scope of a home cheesemaker. So the first of several pH checks is after cutting.
There are several point that the pH can be checked, after cutting, heating, washing etc depending on the style of cheese.
Wow. Never knew that. So I guess you cant measure the acidity of the cheese directly after you add rennet, and then when approaching the target pH, then add the culture, and then check the pH again to then decide the oppurtune moment of when to cut the curd?
I mean-- this way it sounds much easier, much more scientific, with the home-maker guaranteed for an excellent product.
Quote from: DeejayDebi on January 22, 2010, 02:52:16 AMSmaller curds make drier cheese, bigger curds make moister cheese. The size is based on the type of cheese. That being said. Curds are initally cut to a given sized but during cooking are often cut smaller by stirring. If one set of knives are all you plan to buy I would get larger ones say 1/2 inch. You can cut twice to make smaller curds but you can't glue curds back together again.
Okay, thanks.
Would cutting the curd with a 1/4" as opposed to a 3/8" severely effect the cheese in any way shape or form?
Quote from: humble_servant7 on January 22, 2010, 06:40:54 PM
Hmmm... sounds rather unreliable...
Is there any other way of doing this. Like with a gadget of sorts or something?
I like to make sure I am GUARANTEED to have an excellent end product and rater would rely on science and scientific instruments to properly give me the accurate measurements.
Anything you can recommend?
Why does it sound unreliable? Because it requires a subjective evaluation for when the bowl stops spinning? Don't mean to give a lecture here, but relying on only measurements for when to transition among steps in the cheesemake doesn't work so well for small and mid size producers. You'd need to control every single aspect if you want to do that, and measure milk fat, solids, solids not fat, mineral, total acidity, titratable lactic acid, concentration of alpha, beta, and kappa caseins, etc.
With that in mind, if you really want, there are two more ways to measure a flocculation equivalence. One is by using a refractometer to measure light refraction and the other by using a torque meter that spins inside of the curd to measure colloidal resistance. But the results are within an acceptable margin of error when using the spinning bowl method.
Another way to measure flocculation is to take a curd shovel of spatula and lift the milk up to see if any floccules remain on the surface of the shovel or spatula.
Not many things are guaranteed in cheesemaking, even if you micromanage every detail. You'd drive yourself crazy... there are hundreds of thousands complex interactions... the multivariable analysis would be insanely challenging.
Quote
Wow. Never knew that. So I guess you cant measure the acidity of the cheese directly after you add rennet, and then when approaching the target pH, then add the culture, and then check the pH again to then decide the oppurtune moment of when to cut the curd?
I mean-- this way it sounds much easier, much more scientific, with the home-maker guaranteed for an excellent product.
You should cut the curd based on flocculation time, not a pH change. The pH change for curd cutting is somewhat irrelevant in terms of getting the curds to the right moisture level after cooking. The reason pH is not reliable is because during the first hour of the cheesemake, unless you're using some ultra fast acidifying culture or too much culture, there is both a lag period, and a slow acidification period. The lag period is due to how bacteria function and the slow acidification period has to do with metabolysis/colony sizes and that milk buffers acids and absorbs acid production.
One can measure the acidity after adding rennet. Not sure what you mean.
Quote
Would cutting the curd with a 1/4" as opposed to a 3/8" severely effect the cheese in any way shape or form?
Yes, you will get a drier cheese (possibly) and lower yield. Also the cook time is reduced.
Quote from: linuxboy on January 22, 2010, 07:09:23 PM
Why does it sound unreliable? Because it requires a subjective evaluation for when the bowl stops spinning? Don't mean to give a lecture here, but relying on only measurements for when to transition among steps in the cheesemake doesn't work so well for small and mid size producers. You'd need to control every single aspect if you want to do that, and measure milk fat, solids, solids not fat, mineral, total acidity, titratable lactic acid, concentration of alpha, beta, and kappa caseins, etc.
With that in mind, if you really want, there are two more ways to measure a flocculation equivalence. One is by using a refractometer to measure light refraction and the other by using a torque meter that spins inside of the curd to measure colloidal resistance. But the results are within an acceptable margin of error when using the spinning bowl method.
Another way to measure flocculation is to take a curd shovel of spatula and lift the milk up to see if any floccules remain on the surface of the shovel or spatula.
Not many things are guaranteed in cheesemaking, even if you micromanage every detail. You'd drive yourself crazy... there are hundreds of thousands complex interactions... the multivariable analysis would be insanely challenging.
You should cut the curd based on flocculation time, not a pH change. The pH change for curd cutting is somewhat irrelevant in terms of getting the curds to the right moisture level after cooking. The reason pH is not reliable is because during the first hour of the cheesemake, unless you're using some ultra fast acidifying culture or too much culture, there is both a lag period, and a slow acidification period. The lag period is due to how bacteria function and the slow acidification period has to do with metabolysis/colony sizes and that milk buffers acids and absorbs acid production.
One can measure the acidity after adding rennet. Not sure what you mean.
Yes, you will get a drier cheese (possibly) and lower yield. Also the cook time is reduced.
Oh Okay. Wow.
Thanks for the response. I have much to think about now.
1. Linuxboy besides the 1/2" knife that debi and cartier mentioned, which other sizes would you also recommend to satisfy the prerequisites for being able to make MOST of the cheeses?
2. And is the "spinning bowl" method the one you mostly use?
3. And Debi mentioned something about there being "certain points" during one's making of cheese that one should measure pH at.
Do you mind telling me those points?
I get confused as to which point the measurement of pH should be taken.
Quote from: humble_servant7 on January 22, 2010, 08:40:25 PM
1. Linuxboy besides the 1/2" knife that debi and cartier mentioned, which other sizes would you also recommend to satisfy the prerequisites for being able to make MOST of the cheeses?
You can make most continental (aka hard cheeses) styles with a 1/2". For alpine and parmesan styles, you can use the 1/2" twice, like Debi posted, to get small rice-size 1/4" pieces.
For cheeses with higher flocculation multipliers (ones with more moisture), such as feta, bloomy rind, blues, etc, you need to either scoop with a ladle or cut to very large pieces, 1"+. But not always, just in general the way you get more moisture is higher floc multiplier and larger curd size.
Quote from: humble_servant7 on January 22, 2010, 08:40:25 PM
2. And is the "spinning bowl" method the one you mostly use?
My milk has a consistent floc time of 9-12 mins, unless I make a special low-rennet cheese, so I can visually tell the gel point. The light bounces off differently at the floc point. I also float a bowl as a secondary confirmation, or if I'm doing other things and not watching the milk all the time.
Quote from: humble_servant7 on January 22, 2010, 08:40:25 PM
3. And Debi mentioned something about there being "certain points" during one's making of cheese that one should measure pH at.
Do you mind telling me those points?
I get confused as to which point the measurement of pH should be taken.
The key pH points are:
- before adding culture: record starting pH of the milk
- With DVI culture, 20-30 mins after adding culture: record pH and look for a drop of about .1. That's how you know the cultures are awake. This one is not as crucial because if you're using fresh culture, it should be good.
- At whey drain. The whey drain pH, more than any other, determines the character of the cheese
- After press or molding. This is to determine when to add salt or to take out of the mold and brine
- After salting. Not so crucial because there's not much you can do to change pH now, but do it as a quality control point and also to help you develop consistency. If a cheese comes out perfectly, you can look back at the numbers and try to replicate it.
I get 16-18 minutes flocculation time using raw milk and buttermilk as starter culture. Is that considered logical?
You can see my version of using the floating bowl method for checking the flocculation point if you go to my vid.
Fast forward to 3:32
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqT69URib2g#)
Alex - 16 to 18 minutes is a little long. I would add a little more rennet to get it down to 10-12.
Wayne, great movie, you deserve the Oscar of ceese-making!!!!!
Sailor, thanks, I know it should be in the range you mention. I'll try to add more rennet next time. mMy rennet might be out of date, it's about 18 month old, obviously stored in the fridge. Theoretically I use same type of milk and starter, may be the flocculation time is affected by temps as well.
I took a cheese making class a few years ago, there I was tought to add 1 tb of vinegar/1 liter of milk, raw, pasteurized or not. I think it has something to do with useing store bought buttermilk and yogurt as starters. I stopped using vinegar when I joined this forum and started to read cheese making books. I didn't found any differences on the outcoming cheeses.
Quote from: Wayne Harris on January 23, 2010, 06:17:13 PM
You can see my version of using the floating bowl method for checking the flocculation point if you go to my vid.
Fast forward to 3:32
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqT69URib2g#)
What an absolutely EXCELLENT VIDEO.
I've just subscribed.
So after you've figured the floccuation point then you must multiply by a number called a "multiplier" correct?
IS there any way of figuring out the multiplier of each and every type of cheese or is it already figured out and written down somewhere?
Oh-- and one last question.. I saw you cut your curds vertically,. but what about horizontally?
And I saw you move the knife around the pot in the sae areas more than just a couple of times. Is this what is called "double-cutting"?
And hat is your general way/technique of cutting curds to get the exact size that you want?
Oh and I was surprised that you didnt even use your ExTech pH meter!
Great video. I get a big kick out of that final sot of the big thumbs up! :D
Deb - are you calling Wayne a "final sot"? A little too much vino Wayne? :o
I think that should clear up any doubts about what the "spinning bowl method" is.
Excellent video. Thanks, Wayne, for your videography.
Sot, huh?
-Boofer-
Funny related story.
was racking my wine from 2009 about a week ago. ( of course you have to sample, right?)
I had a glass (ok 2) of my wine. Very young tasting.........
But my head was spinning after that. I was a bit puzzled by that.
I measured my Alcohol By Volume in my wine. 15.5%
damn.
15.5% sounds like a GOOD thing.
Wow I always thought wine had a lowish ABV. Guess I know less than I thought about wine.
Sounds like you've got a fortified wine, Wayne. How's it taste?
-Boofer-
ITs not really fortified, (well not on purpose), i just fermented the crap outta it appearently.
It tastes young. has potential. Lots of color and boquet.
In 20 months, it will be perfect. although that gives me plenty of time to ruin it.
Nice looking gouda there, Likesspace.
As for the holes.. when they're not nice, perfectly round swiss-type holes, I thought it was due to improper pressing. Like not enough weight, or not long enough. I did one once that had holes like that when I didn't have enough weights for my little homemade press :P
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4271097255_8165c38343.jpg)
Gouda is supposed to have a few randomly spaced tiny holes. They tend to migrate near the middle.
Mechcanical holes are usually irregular in shape and spacings and can be anywhere in the cheese. Sometimes they look more like slits than holes.
Hi guys and thanks for all of the response to this thread.
I've been tied up with some family issues for the past month but I have had a chance to sample a few of the Gouda's I've made. Without going into a lot of detail, I am really satisfied with using this recipe.
I will admit that I have not perfected the recipe, (my second attempt was really nice, but not quite as elastic as my first), but the flavor was fantastic. I have to agree with Debi that adding a bit of Flora Danice REALLY makes a difference in the final product.
I would address all of the questions and comments that have been made, (since I last posted), but I feel that they have already been addressed by others who know more than I do about making cheese.
Suffice it to say that if you follow their advice a good quality cheese is in your future. I really love the flavor and the texture of a well made Gouda, and this one has been a major hit with everyone that has sampled it.
OpheliaBlue....
Thanks for the pressing advice. I think I'll try moving up to a higher p.s.i. on this cheese, on my next batch, just to see what happens.
Hope everyone is having a great week.
Dave
I am going to start my first goat milk gouda today.. I have just read all of your great posts.I am qondering what your opinions are on natural rind vs waxing..could you go into your next steps after brining and air drying? thas so much, Missy
Wow, what a beautiful cheese and a great thread. I also learned some things from the video. I'm hoping to try this one myself, thanks for the recipe and the tips!!
fuzziebear3....
I sincerely hope the recipe works out for you.
I've made this cheese several times since making the initial post and I've always been happy with the results.
I've not yet refined things to where every cheese turns out exactly like the previous one but I'm getting closer with each batch.
Good luck with your attempts and make sure you let us all know how it turns out.
Also, thanks for the kind words........
Dave
hey Dave,
I am wondering what is the earliest you have tried your goudas. I have read in several recipes that they are good as early as 2 weeks. Made my first one following your recipe on the 8th of March, decided to wax it instead of tryingthe natural rind the first time. Am going to start another today and try it with cumin seed.
thanks, Missy
Hi Missy,
First of all, I'm sorry for the late reply. Unfortunately I haven't had a lot to time to post here, at least not nearly as much as I'd like to.
As for your question, I have tried the Gouda recipe as early as two weeks and although it has a nice taste it is much better after at least a month. I don't know why Gouda will mature much more quickly than other cheeses but it does seem to.
About the longest I have aged a Gouda is 3 months and I can't really tell a lot of difference between a three month cheese and a two month cheese. At some point I plan to make one and let it go for a couple of years just to see what the result is.
I use a vacuum bag machine for cheese storage. When waxing I've always had problems with getting mold under the wax and I've never given a natural rind a try. After switching to vacuuming I'm yet to see my first speck of mold which is a very nice change. For some reason that always really ticked me off.
Keep us informed on how things go for you. I'm also really looking forward to hearing how your first attempt turned out. I'm still hoping that things will slow down a little for me so that I can get back to making cheese and participating more on the forum.
Have a great weekend.
Dave
thanks for the info Dave, didn't get to that gouda the other day as I was pasteurising my milk and thought I turned it off when in fact it got left on low and got way to hot..oh well the chickens liked it... was away over the weekend at grandma's 89th b'day...so will have to get to that next gouda this week..will keep you posted. do you have a foodsaver vacuum sealer??? i wonder if they make bags big enough for whole chickens...we do our own meat birds...probably Deejay Deb would know that kind of thing! anyway, thanks again, Missy
Hey folks. just opened my first goat milk gouda. It was waxed on Mar 14th. I am so Happy!! it is beautiful, smooth, mild but flavorful, and even my husband likes it! this is Dave's recipe. thanks Dave!!
See photo.
Missy
It's beautiful, Missy--just perfect! Can you email me a taste?
CC it to me too :D
Looks incredible. It is soft and moist as it looks? Wow, I want some!
What kind of Mesophilic did you use? I am trying to figure out the best practice to get this kind of texture.
Great job Missy looks wonderful. Bet it just melts in your mouth! Mmmmmmm
As for the Vac bags I always buy rolls and cut them to whatever I need. and 11 inch bag will hold a good sized whole chicken or 1/2 a small turkey.
I used M4001 and followed Dave's recipe. the gouda is half gone! also started a new Cabra al Vino, am going to use the Blueberry wine again.
I made this cheese and it tasted good. I have never eaten Gouda so i am not familiar with what it is supposed to taste like or what texture it should have. Mine was a bit dry and when I grated it and tried to use it in mac and cheese, it didn't melt. it stayed in lumps and didn't get soft. What did I do wrong?
Rustin--you may want to post a few more details as to how you made the cheese. What kind of milk did you use? What kind of starter? What recipe did you follow? How long did you age it? This info might help us in trying to help you!
Dave: I am going to use your recipe in my first ever attempt at Gouda. I am curious about the pH readings though. When you take your readings, are you measuring pH of the whey or the curds? I have 2 pH meters and the probe end on one of them is a bit large to be jamming into actual curds.
I have made mozzarella and cream cheese to date and used the meter to measure pH of the whey itself, however I am not sure if that is the way to go.
Any help would be appreciated.
Salute! :D
Hi bmckee....
When I wrote out this recipe I used whey ph readings.
I've since gone to a meter that can test the curd but since I've had good luck with this particular recipe I continue to take my readings from the whey.
The last wheel of this cheese that I cracked open had aged for a 6 month period and I have to say that it is far and away the best cheese that I've ever produced. Because of that I don't plan on ever opening another of my Gouda cheeses until the 6 month period has expired.
I find Gouda one of the easiest of all cheeses to make since you don't really have a cooking stage (where you have to raise the temperature of the curd over a given period of time). It's about as cut and dried as a cheese can be which makes it fairly easy to get consistent results.
Good luck on your cheese and let us know how it turns out.
Also, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Dave
Dave,
Thanks for posting recipe and picture of your beautiful cheese. Looks fantastic! I have a question that goes way back to the beginning of the thread almost a year ago. You said you cut a piece out and tried it, then were going to age (the rest of it?) it and see how it was later. I thought you could not cut a wheel or that somehow that stopped the aging. Can you cut it into pieces, vacuum seal and age them individually?
Susan
Susan,
Many of us will cut a wheel at 90 days (or whatever), then vacuum bag the rest and age some more. The cheese doesn't care if it's been cut or not. It keeps right on aging.
Sailor, thanks for the reply. That's good news. Somehow I thought once the rind was compromised it stopped aging or didn't age properly. So if I knew I was going to quarter the wheel and give to friends, would it be best to do that after brining/before drying to allow each quarter to develop a rind and age on its own? Or wait until aging is complete and then cut. Does it make any difference?
Susan
The cheese needs to age for a while before you cut it. I rarely cut anything before 90 days.
Well shoot. Now I'm confused again. :P Before we said it was ok to cut it, then reseal and age more. So only ok after 90 days? What happens in the aging process that we are changing by cutting?
Susan
Dave: Thanks for the pH update. I just finished a batch of Mozzarella for pizza this evening with my homemade pizza dough and sauce. I intend on using your recipe tomorrow for the first time. I like the way you laid out you recipe and the steps used.
I will monitor the pH of the whey and also take a few readings on the curds as I go. I plan on using my PID controller to make this cheese as it allows me better temperature control throughout the process. I also have a cheese cave ready to age the Gouda once it is pressed. My only concern now is maintaining 80 - 90% humidity in the cave. I use a PID controller to maintain temperature but I have not received my PID controller for humidity control as yet.
Thanks again for the info. I will post back when I have the Gouda in the Cave!
Salute! :D
Susan and bmckee....
First of all, I agree 100% with what Sailor had to say on the subject of cutting.
After air drying the cheese for a few days I now cut my wheels into quarters and then vacuum bag. Although I love to make cheese I honestly don't eat a lot of it so by cutting a 4 lb. wheel into quarters I never have more opened then I can eat.
The beauty of vacuum bagging is that you create a rindless cheese and have no need of keeping a consistent humidity in the cave, (bmckee, this might be something that would be helpful in your situation).
After having used vacuum bagging I don't forsee myself ever going back to a natural or waxed cheese.
It really gives me a sense of pleasure to know that people are using this recipe, and seem to like the results. I will say that although I put a lot of time into making the recipe, it was information that was gathered from the members of this forum that made success possible.
Good luck to you both in your cheese making and please keep us informed on how things turn out (that means photos.....I'm a real sucker when it comes to what Carter used to call "cheese porn").
Also, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Dave
Oh, one other thing......
Sailor and Susan.....sheesh you two stay up LATE!
By the time the question was asked and answered I'd been in bed for a couple of hours!
Didn't your mommas tell you that a good night's sleep is important? :-)
Holy shomoley we must have time change or computer time stamp issues! That is one thing I have never been accused of. 9pm is about my limit. It is now 9:10pm and I am ready to crawl into bed. But I can't hit the hay until I've read all the new posts. It's become an addiction. ;D
Dave: I used your recipe today and followed it as closely as possible, however I did overshoot the initial 84 degree set point by about 2 degrees. I waited for a clean break which per the calculations you mentioned occurred right around 13 minutes. I also allowed 8 minutes of heal time as I noticed the curd breaking down @ 5 minutes when I went to stir gently.
Curd did not hold together as a solid mass but did not completely break down. I drained whey and added 130 degree water as you noted 3 times, but had to increase my temperature to hit the 100 -102 degree mark you set. The curd mass did not settle below the whey as I had expected, so I used a metal mesh strainer to push the curd down gently to remove the whey and then pressed the curd with 8# of weight for 10 minutes.
I strained the curds which broke down into nice crumbly curds and allowed them to drain before moving them into my cheese press (Lined with cheese cloth). I pressed with 3# for 30 minutes then 4# for 30 minutes then I flipped the cheese and pressed with 4#. I am now waiting for the displaced whey to reach the pH level indicated in your original recipe. When I flipped the cheese, I was pleased to note that it was holding it's shape nicely.
I have my brine solution ready and will allow the Gouda to float for 3 - 6 hours (more if necessary) My cheese cave is already at 55 degrees waiting for the Gouda to make it's appearance.
I can't wait to sample some of this cheese and pair it with some of my home made wine and beer. I really appreciate you posting this recipe and will follow up with a tasting report when the time comes.
Thanks a bunch Dave.
Salute! :D
QuoteI waited for a clean break which per the calculations you mentioned occurred right around 13 minutes.
I am not Dave, but you say clean break occurred at 13 minutes. Do you mean to say flocculation occurred at 13 minutes? Clean break should not come until about 3 times your floc. time or about 39 minutes in your case. If you stirred at 13 minutes, this may explain why your curds did not hold together.
Fred
AC: I checked for curd set using the floating bowl method. This occurred very quickly after adding my rennet and stirring with up/down strokes 25 times. I used a timer after adding the rennet and at 4 minutes (maybe my understanding of flocculation is incorrect) I multiplied 4*3=12 and added another minute to come up with 13 minutes. My initial curds were formed nicely, but still very fragile. Is 4 minutes to short a time for curd set to occur? Could the increased temperature I achieved have caused curd set to occur more rapidly?
Flocculation as it relates to cheese is new to me. I make beer and wine and flocculation related to yeast is some what different. I know I have a lot to learn and will work to get things right as I proceed.
My cheese is now in the cave and it appears to have developed a firm outer skin (I hope this is what it is supposed to be). I flipped it over last evening before going to bed and it is doing well. I will vacuum seal the Gouda in a few days and allow it to age.
Salute! :D
4 minutes is way too short. You used too much rennet, which can lead to a bitter cheese. You should not cut this cheese early. It needs to age longer than normal to help get rid of the bitterness. Reduce your rennet by at least half next time. You should shoot for a flocculation of around 15 minutes.
This is a good example of why you should use the flocculation method instead of blindly following recipes.
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on November 18, 2010, 02:43:30 PM
4 minutes is way too short. You used too much rennet, which can lead to a bitter cheese. You should not cut this cheese early. It needs to age longer than normal to help get rid of the bitterness. Reduce your rennet by at least half next time. You should shoot for a flocculation of around 15 minutes.
This is a good example of why you should use the flocculation method instead of blindly following recipes.
So based upon the fact that the curd set so quickly, you are saying that I used to much rennet. Ok, I will adjust the amount down on my next attempt. You mention that the cheese will be bitter due to the amount of rennet used, Ok, I will wait longer to sample. My initial flocculation should be somewhere around 15 minutes next time and I will look for the change and hopefully see better results in curd formation. Question: If flocculation occurs at 15 minutes, would I then wait 45 minutes to cut the curds? After cutting and healing takes place, raising the temperature to 100-102 degrees should help to displace additional whey correct? Why do the curds not settle in 5 minutes as the original recipe indicates? Is it because the curd was to small and continued to float easily.
I know I have lots of questions, but I learn fast and appreciate all the assistance and guidance I can get.
The Gouda still looks nice and I can't wait to sample it (I will wait though....... I promise - ::) )
Salute! :D
Flocculation is a method to standardize your results, but the multiplier is variable depending on the cheese. So yes, if you are using a multiplier of 3 then 15 x 3 = 45 minutes to curd cut. That is total from the time you add rennet.
You can adjust that multiplier for different types of cheese or to suit your preferences. In general, a smaller multiplier will end up with a drier cheese. A larger multiplier will end up with a moister cheese. This happens because curds that have set longer will retain more moisture. So, you could use a 3.5 multiplier and get a moister Gouda.
Thanks Sailor! The gouda spent a few days in the cheese cave and last night, I removed it, cut it in half and vacuum sealed both pieces. I was pleased to note that the texture of the cheese was quite similar to what I am used to seeing in a gouda. The rind was harder than the interior and there were no signs of any mold at all. Unfortunetly, I did not sample the cheese as I wanted to retain the halved pieces until Christmas when my son returns home for the Holiday. I know it will not be aged sufficiently, but I plan on sampling it at that time.
I am going to do another batch of gouda on Monday and will increase the timing and reduce the rennet to achieve (hopefully) a better result.
Salute! :D
You should wait until you are actually going to use them before you divide up a cheese. Larger wheels will age better.
Impatience on my part. I thought after wine and beer making at home that I had developed the ability to control that, but I guess I was wrong. I will age before cutting in the future.
Thanks.
Salute! :D
I mentioned earlier that my curds did not settle well and that concerned me a bit. After some research I came across this information:
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/cheese/cheese.html (http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/cheese/cheese.html)
If the curds float, you have a gas-producing contaminant in your starter or your milk was contaminated. You need to pay closer attention to handling your milk, and/or purchase fresh starter. The bacteria which form bubbles may be a form of Escherichia. However, it does not necessarily ruin the cheese, but does make it iffy. Many CO2 formers are non-pathogenic. Indeed, you might WANT bubbles in your finished cheese. Think about Swiss cheese... However, to be safe, age your cheese for at least two months because pathogens do not survive this extended aging. In addition, you will have a little more difficulty separating the curds from the whey if the curds float.
Does this sound like good information to you all. My cheese did not exhibit any large gas pockets that I am aware of, but maybe they will develop after an extended period of aging.
Salute! :D
I find that statement full of errors and omissions. A short ripening time is not long enough for gas producers to have any visible effects. It is more likely that floating curds contain trapped butterfat and remain lighter than the whey.
How would you go about releasing trapped butter fats? Would that be due to improper procedures of some sort?
Salute! :D
No, it's perfectly normal for some curds to contain more butterfat, especially if you are using a raw or unskimmed milk. Constant stirring helps a lot.