Dec 5: I started my second Manchego and tried to incorporate all the tricks and tips I had absorbed since my first endeavor about a year ago.
Heating the milk was done entirely in the sink and I did have some difficulty reaching and maintaining the heat I needed. I pressed under brined whey. I tried going naked after the first pressing, but thought that the end result with the bigger nubs was undesirable. After pressing, brined for 8 hours. Dried in mini-cave for 11 days @ ~67F/75%RH...68F/94%RH, then moved to cave. Rind seemed to be forming nicely.
Jan 4th: cleaned off bits of black mold with toothpick and vinegar/salt solution, wiped entire wheel, dried, and coated with EVOO. Put back into mini-cave and back to the cave @ 55F/88%RH. The temp and humidity remained pretty consistent...amazing.
Jan 18th: cleaned off black mold spots with toothpick and vinegar/salt solution. I'm not so sure that coating with olive oil is a good thing. Seems like it fosters mold growth. Anyway, after cleaning up the wheel I rubbed it with salt and vacuum-sealed it. Boy, do I love my new FoodSaver. Excellent piece of equipment. Sure beats the old Reynolds handheld sealer process. This is
sweet!Some additional datapoints:
- Still not using a pH meter, but that should change shortly.
- Still not pressing with as much force as I believe I should...psi...psi...psi...Yo, Sailor!
- Although some parts of the process are more comfortable and becoming more "intuitive", I still have those areas that need additional work, such as keeping the curds in a warm state where they will knit properly.
I like the idea of the Dutch press combined with a small pulley advantage. That's where I'm heading. These links flesh out a lot of the details I have been pondering: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2245.msg17456.html#msg17456 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2245.msg17456.html#msg17456)
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1877.msg23272.html#msg23272 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1877.msg23272.html#msg23272)
-Boofer-
Looks great! Press on. :)
Folks,
I have had my first Parma style in the cave for a couple weeks, washing with brine when appropriate to keep it clean. I would like to keep the rind olive oiled but would like to see what other think. I don't have vacuum system so all my cheeses are waxed or go the cared for rind route. I love playing with the little mini-gardens on my open cheeses.
Does anyone have experience with long term (10 months) rinds that have only been oiled.
Yes. Once you get the first few coats on, it starts to form a skin and oilings are infrequent after that. I have aged romano for years with just oil rubbings.
I should add that they are vulnerable to yeast infestations if conditions are too moist for too long, but you can scrape them back and reapply the oil.
Maybe I just get too panicky when I see the black bloom coming through the oil. I guess I expect that the oil should smother this growth and restrict its viability. I really wanted to cure this cheese with an oil-rubbed rind.
-Boofer-
I do many of my hard cheese especially Italian and Spainsh cheeses by rubbing with olive oil. I will place it in the cave for a week or so to dry then I just soak a cloth and buff it with the oil - I don't soak it.
I have a few large chunks left (1 to 2 pounds) of 3 to 5 year old romano, parmensan and asiago just rubbed in oil for the first year. Now they are in Vac pacs so they don't dry anymore.
Ok, Debi, so I got a little carried away with my oiling, huh? ::)
-Boofer-
Boofer-your good for a another 6000 miles. ;D
It's just pricey stuff boofer I try to conserve where I can. I use a lot of it cooking.
You can use other oils besides olive (grape seed, avocado etc.). I have tried a few others and found them to work just as well, but they impart different flavors.
I have tried grape seed oil but found it tends to leave an odd aftertaste after a several months. I thinks it's okay for short lived cheeses but I don't recommend it for long term aging.
Sesame seed oil is similar to grape seed and you have the darkening effect as well, which can be intersting. I think flavor wise I like the sesame oil better than the grape seed oil.
I did one with an olive oil treatment that aged for four months and turned out quite nice. I was thinking of doing again. I brushed it with olive oil twice per day for four days. It developed a firm/slightly chewy rind.
Olive oil is a wonderful thing!
Okay, so I need to adjust my oiling technique and...be patient. It has only been a couple days since I bagged my Manchego. Perhaps I'll unseal it and proceed.
-Boofer-
I just dip a wad of cheese cloth on some oil and dab it on then rub it around. Doesn't take a lot and you will do it more than once.
Good, good, good....
A little dab'll do me my cheese. ;)
-Boofer-
;D And help your wallet too!
Thanks for your tips, Debi.
-Boofer-
Your most welcome Boofer!
Grapeseed oil is high in polyunsaturates and will go rancid easier. Olive is mostly monounsaturated, canola is close to olive. Those are less likely to go rancid. Saturated fats like tallow or lard are the most resistant to rancidity.
Ah so that would account for the odd after taste. Canola? Hmm cheaper than olive oil too. Never tried it before but I will. Thanks Lennie!
When making Gouda or Alpine, I always used to run into mold forming problems, even when using wax. Now I experimented with dried red hot chili peppers (abundantly available here in Thailand). I put them in the blender and mix in olive oil. The wheel is then brushed all over with this mixture. Did this only one time. After a month I brushed off the red chili that was still on the rind. By then the rind formed nicely with a blend of reddish color mixed into the yellow.
So far I have not had a speck of mold growing on it. The cheese, as seen in the picture, is now 2 months old. Doing my best to wait a bit longer and see if and how it might affect the taste.
Nice looking cheese and the photo is very nice also.
Very elegant presentation.
So you're proposing the use of chili peppers (in an olive oil rind) to help retard mold? Is there any other evidence out there that may support the idea?
-Boofer-
Back in January I resealed my wheel in a vacuum bag after a disappointing attempt at using olive oil as a rind sealer. Over the course of time from then until now, the manchego outgassed and made the vacuum bag very loose around the wheel.
Today I removed the wheel (no mold or contamination apparent) from the loose vacuum bag, re-rubbed it with EVOO, and placed it back in a mini-cave in the cave. There are some pretty good-sized cracks in the top and bottom surfaces and I'm hoping the olive oil will help seal those and harden off the rind. The vacuum bag had some moisture inside it and the rind hasn't had an opportunity to harden. Hopefully this new course of action will improve the cheese.
This has convinced me of the shortcomings of vacuum-bagging cheese.
This cheese is coming up to its 4th month in captivity. I'd like to crack it open on D-Day (6 months).
-Boofer-
Still had moisture in the bag huh? I don't get it ...
I'm answering this really old thread in the hope that Eric in Thailand would still be reading.
I'd really love to know how the red chili affected the taste of this cheese?
I can easily believe that the chili would greatly reduce the unwanted microflora, but am wondering whether or not it will be a completely different cheese done this way?
Of course it wouldn't be bad to have a chili flavored cheese, but still, I would like to know whether it is only the rind or the whole cheese that takes the chili flavor when done this way? Eric, or others, any comments?
I will try this anyway, since I really want to find a way to make long-ripened, natural rind cheeses, and so far I have only managed to keep the rind decently clean for around 2 months (after that it seems that the mold is simply getting better and better hold of the cheese and keeping it clean becomes increasingly difficult).
I wonder if this could be a way to go with parmesan and other really long ripened, natural rind cheeses.
Boy, Zoey, you really are reaching back in the closet.... ;)
Good question. I guess it never got answered. I'd like to know too.
As far as your continuing rind problems go, how high is your humidity? Right now I'm developing eyes in a Jarlsberg and the rind is fairly dry after short of a week. I rubbed it with EVOO yesterday just to be sure its still pliable. As I look at the temp & RH, it now sits at 69F/82%. It's in a Rubbermaid minicave with the door shut. So far so good.
I think if my humidity was higher and/or the rind was moist I would have more problems. I have had to be vigilant and use a toothpick dipped in vinegar & salt to eradicate any errant nasties that seek to take hold. A few small white fluffies have tried to get in, but a swipe of the V & S gets them too. After I've wiped with the V & S, I ensure that the rind is dried.
So...looking for the answer to the chili cheese. :)
-Boofer-
I would be interested in the outcome of that chili rubbed cheese also. Yesterday I made a Wenslydale with Anaheim and Fresno chilies. After it dries a few days I am going to develop the rind by rubbing with an Ancho chili powder/ EVOO/salt rub. I like the smoky quality of the Ancho Chili Powder and am hoping that it will enhance the spiciness of the peppers. We'll see...