I'm just now contemplating that the 24-gallon pot I am soon to be ordering MAY not fit on my stovetop seeing that I have a vent hood over it that limits available size capabilities.
So does anyone have another suggestion as to how I can heat my milk/cheese up in another device of sorts-- because I dont thinik the stove will work.
A good solution would be to buy a standalone propane or natural gas burner, like the ones used for the turkey fryer kits.
http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/images/banjoburner.jpg (http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/images/banjoburner.jpg)
Craigslist is a good source. I bought a heavy duty burner a long time ago for doing 15 gal brewing batches. I get a boil in about half an hour, so the BTU is way overkill for cheese. It should work nicely for a 24 gal pot.
humble, here's a link to Wayne's solution for heating his stockpot vat (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,847.msg12496.html#msg12496).
I had this idea today that a 60 or 80 quart Hobart mixing bowl would make a nice cheese vat. Running copper tubing around it similar to a wort chiller but for heat and some sort of sleeve around that you could build a nice vat. Anybody got an extra $338.08 ?
(http://www.kitchengadgetry.com/kitchen/gadgets/images/thumb/500x400_OMC-MXB80.jpg)
Quote from: linuxboy on February 05, 2010, 01:05:59 AM
A good solution would be to buy a standalone propane or natural gas burner, like the ones used for the turkey fryer kits.
http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/images/banjoburner.jpg (http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/images/banjoburner.jpg)
Craigslist is a good source. I bought a heavy duty burner a long time ago for doing 15 gal brewing batches. I get a boil in about half an hour, so the BTU is way overkill for cheese. It should work nicely for a 24 gal pot.
I'm loving Linuxboy's solution.
What do you guys think of this?
A portable Butane Stove that I can just sit on the counter-top?:
http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_900459 (http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_900459)
Something like that would work well, assuming it was sturdy enough to support the weight. That's something like 200 lbs if the pot is full of milk. You may want to consider another fuel source, though. A natural gas pipe is easy to extend and use a flex hose for the hookup, or you can use cheap 1-lb propane cylinders if you want something portable. Butane burns hot, but I think it's rather expensive compared to propane.
I'm sorry guys-- I so so so DID NOT mean to say 24-gallon pot.
I was thinking of "quarts" when I typed "gallons"-- so forgive me-- HYUGE mistake on my part.
I meant 24-QUART/6-GALLON pot.
Again-- sorry guys
I do that sometimes too. It happens! ;)
Awww, you got my hopes up that someone else was working with a 100qt pot.
Actually, this thread made me re-visit a thought I have had for a while....
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/5/5/2/8/9/0/webimg/314103321_tp.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/GROEN-MODEL-D2-30-GALLON-TILTING-DIRECT-STEAM-KETTLE_W0QQitemZ350315763982QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Steam_Cooking_Warming?hash=item519072590e)
How nice would that be....
very cool. Of course you'd have to do some extensive work to heat it, and bold it to the floor or something.
That kettle has a built-in steam jacket, and yeah, I would bolt it to the floor.
Of course now I would need install a small boiler in the house....
(It never ends....)
Well there's always those kadova moulds ...
Just to address a thought I had this morning.
Does anyone have/know the ratio/scale for finding out how much heat one would need for their water bath in order to make the milk increase by 2degrees per every minute-- or however cheese manufacturers tell you how long it should be properly heated by whatever time to degree increments in order to ensure a good curd set?
I found a formula for calculating the wattage required for heating elements.
Basically you need to figure out the total gallons of liquid you are trying to heat. The amount you are trying to heat it. and the timeframe in which you want to do that.
(http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/116/gfx/large/waterformul.gif)
So, for example, if you had a 15 gallon water bath, you are taking your water bathwater from 50deg to 80deg (30deg travel), in 30minutes, it works out like this:
[(15x30)/(372@.5)]x1000=
[450/186]X1000=
2.41x1000=
2400 watts
Wayne, that's what I use, but mine is non-tilting. It has a whey drain 2" pipe coming out that's optionally screened, and you don't really need to drain, just scoop out the curds and pack them in molds. I have a 30 gal Groen, the biggest size made that still works on single phase current. Doesn't even need a boiler, just a 220V line on a 50 amp breaker. If you look for auctions or restaurant closeouts, you should be able to find a cheap one. I got mine for $600. Tilting would be better, but it's hard to beat $600.
So what do you actually call that thing if you are searching online???? A kettle with a water jacket?
Try steam kettle, soup warmer, jacketed kettle, tilting kettle. Can also try the brands in combination with the search, such as "Groen kettle" or "Groen tilting". Biggest brands are Groen, Cleveland, Vulcan, Mueller, Lee, Legion, and a few other ones I can't recall.
I have a canned search for Groen Kettles up on Ebay.
They are always up on Ebay. I *almost* pulled the trigger on a 40gal tilt Steam kettle that he was gonna let go for 750.
There are lots of "kettles" on e-Bay, but they all seem to be gas, 3-phase, or require an external boiler/heat source. There are small 5 gallon soup kettles that are self-contained single phase, but that's overkill for just 5 gallons.
Sailor, mine was originally wired for 3-ph, but I rewired it for standard 1-ph and ran a line out to the garage on a 50 amp breaker. It would heat up faster with 3-ph, but I'm not boiling anything, just heating milk up to temp.
Running a gas line is also a good solution, but I don't have gas on my property, else I would have. If you do that, make sure your installer or you pay attention to the gas pressure and use a large enough pipe, and make sure the incoming line from the company has high enough pressure, or request them to bump it up.
From an electrical perspective, you should be able to rewire most of the kettles, it's just that once you get above a certain wattage input requirement, it's not practical or efficient. I think up to 40 gals is OK on a 240 line at 60 amps max (14.4 KW). If you find a kettle you like, let me know and I can try to figure out if it's possible to rewire it to single phase. Up to 40 gal you should be fine, so long as you can dedicate enough juice to the circuit.
You can also get a phase converter and if the voltage is off, a buck/boost transformer instead of rewiring the kettle.
I have one. It's 160L, has a water jacket, an inlet and outlet and small pressure release tap, a lid and removable agitator and tilts. It's a complete nightmare, I have no experience in dealing with these things I just thought I'd get someone to hook it up, I've had it 6 months and I'm sure I've rung everyone in the country trying to get it set up but no go and my milk supply comes online in 2 months, I've just kitted out my cheese room but it looks like I'm going to have to rethink the vat-at huge expense. Any advice? I thought we could fit and element with a thermostat inside the water jacket and use it like that but I've been told it won't work, I'll try to get some pics up for you (much-smarter-than-me) guys ^-^
Vanessa
What type of kettle do you have? Does it need a separate boiler or is it self-contained? We can try to figure it out, but work with your inspector if you're commercial to make sure it would be ok.
It's just a shell basically, I need to get the water in, out and at the right temperature somehow (BTW its a 'thermostar' no idea where it came from originally-I suspect it may be swedish). Someone suggested using an instant gas hot water system and then recirculating the water though the water jacket and back to the gas unit (minimal heat up as water would only lose a degree or two) but the units I find go from 37-85c which is fine for pasteurizing and yoghurt but too high for most of my cheeses (30-35c), so I thought of having a small electric hot water with a thermostat at 30-37c and switching between the two as and when needed-I also need to reuse my water and cool the vat so it gets even more complicated :( Here are some pics for any of you who'd like to see 'the beast':
Oh and my dairy inspecter has very helpfully told me that he'll look when I'm done and tell me what I need to fix.................
Vanessa
Quote from: blackthorn on February 24, 2010, 06:37:31 AM
Someone suggested using an instant gas hot water system and then recirculating the water though the water jacket and back to the gas unit (minimal heat up as water would only lose a degree or two) but the units I find go from 37-85c which is fine for pasteurizing and yoghurt but too high for most of my cheeses (30-35c), so I thought of having a small electric hot water with a thermostat at 30-37c and switching between the two as and when needed-I also need to reuse my water and cool the vat so it gets even more complicated :( Here are some pics for any of you who'd like to see 'the beast':
That someone has the right idea. You need to consistently apply heat to heat the milk and then turn off the heat (in this case, the pump), by having an auto or manual switch when the milk has come up to temp. You have to remember that in this case, with an external boiler, you're replacing the typical internal self-contained system with an external one. The internal system shuts off based on a thermostat, and you need to build a similar one if you're heating with a boiler. To do this, one method is to have a solenoid valve that cuts the gas when temp is reached, or work with an external regulator to do basic on/off for the boiler.
Seems like a typical boiler system like the HERMS/RIMS used for beer brewing could work. Do you need ultra detailed steps for how to get this working because nobody around you will help? You can always rig this up to be on a manual switch and cut it 1-2 degrees F before temp and let the milk equalize.
I've now been told that there isn't a pump that wil pump hot water?? Surely there must be? If we had detailed instructions or a diagram we may be able to get someone around here to understand what we're on about, we do degrees centigrade (we're in Aus), I sometimes wish I was a electrician, plumber, engineer and allround handy :) I'm good at looking after sheep, if that counts LOL
Vanessa
A quick look at the McMaster-Carr site revealed a number of pumps that will circulate hot water.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#water-pumps/=5yc1eq (http://www.mcmaster.com/#water-pumps/=5yc1eq)
I looked in the "Centrifugal Pumps for Circulating Water" section.
Thanks wayne :)
Vanessa