Hi there we are S and Q English expats now living in Bulgaria. We have a small flock of goats and have been making soft cheese for over a year now. Due to demand we have branched out into making a stirred curd variety of goats milk cheddar, being novices at this would welcome any information your members can give us on this thanks. if this is posted in the wrong place please correct us and bear with us thanks.
Welcome to the forum S & Q! I'm sure you will find all the information you need and more here. Everyone is very helpful.
You say that demand is up for your cheeses, is this a career, or a side project? How have your cheddars turned out so far?
Hi markshelton good to get such a quick reply, necessity is more the reason I love good cheese and decent cheddars ect are not available here and yes career there is such a big market and no supply I thought I could fill that void. As for my cheddar I dont know yet, Ive made it by the book but my first batch is still aging which brings me to my first question, how critical is the aging temp. My fridge is now so full of cheese I cant get food in it . I have a store room in my house but that stays at a steady 60 f is that to high? You may say it is unwise to make alot of cheese before tasting the results, but I have alot of surplus milk at the moment and thought that I would learn the manufacturing process with my surplus and then go onto refinement obviously I am keeping a record of each batch I produce
Well, I know milk is my biggest cost, so if you're making because you have excess milk, then I think you're in a better position than me to do experimenting :D
As for aging, I don't think that the temperature is critical, per say, but 60 F is pretty high. I think 50 - 55 is about the optimum range (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). You might want to invest in a small dorm fridge or even a small chest freezer and get an external thermostat. I don't have any links handy, but John probably will.
Excellent that you're keeping records of your batches. Something it took me a little while to figure out. When I started, I thought it would be like following a recipe. So many more variables than simply making dinner! It's good to know what you did to make a good one (or a bad one)
Speaking of recipes, you said you made it by the book. What book are you referring to? There is a lot information here on different books. They are not all created equal, so to speak. (John can probably get you links to good discussions of books also)
Hi again, as for fridges, I just let an excellent little fridge go for peanuts, the day before I read in the book, that it is an excellent place to age cheese, such is life!! The book I'm using is Ricki Carroll cheese making made easy. From what I have researched the aging temp is critical but thought I would ask the people in the know, the worst out come is a fridge full of cheese and take away meals all the time isn't life tough?
Also can some one advise me on what Im looking for when air drying cheese, when does a rind become a rind? Im " waxing " my cheese with muslin and lard at the moment as I was advised by my supplier not to go down the wax route untill I was sure I had mastered the art of production. Has anyone got any thoughts on this matter? thanks
Welcome to the forum. I agree that 60 is a little high. I am learning that aging cannot be overemphasized. With the lard bandaged cheeses humidity should not be a problem. I have read that aging faster at higher temp is possible but opens the door to other problems that offset the advantage. Good luck.
I find wax to be much easier than larding/bandaging and natural rind forming. You don't have to worry about unwanted mold, aging at the right humidity, or even water for that matter (my fridge drips on the inside :P) but larding/bandaging will make a tastier cheese. I say try both and determine for yourself what is the best course. When in doubt, I always go the traditional route. Oiled rind for italian cheeses. Wax for dutch cheeses. Bandage for english cheeses.
As for Ricki Carroll's book, there is much criticism here regarding it. I think it's a good starting point, but it does leave a lot to be desired. As you advance in cheesemaking, you'll start to notice the flaws and holes in her processes. I think what's most helped me, is to get an idea or recipe from a book, then look in the different boards here to see how others have successfully made it, and what their tips and tricks are.
Hi S and Q, welcome to the forum! You are the first ones in Bulgaria, so I just added your country to our list (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,731.0.html) :D.
I live in suburbia and have no clue on goats, but there is a DAIRY FARM - Animals (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,55.0.html) and a DAIRY FARM - Equipment (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,224.0.html) Board where you find many others like you. I'm frankly amazed that there is such a demand for Cheese Makers in Bulgaria, I assumed there would be tonnes! There is a DAIRY FACTORY (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,211.0.html) Board but it sounds like you are in the more non-commercial side of cheese making like most of our members including me.
On aging environments (commonly called "cheese caves" around here), there is lots of info on different ones in the EQUIPMENT - Aging Cheese, Caves (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,181.0.html) Board, most fridge's thermostats don't go warm enough, so you need an external thermostat, I just bought this one which can be configured for 220 volt. I don't make Cheddars so I don't know the ideal aging temp, 60F in your store room is not far off. What temp is the fridge you are currently using at? Hopefully others will chime in here on Cheddar rinds, maybe there's some posts on it in this Cheddared Type Cheese Board, there may also be some more general info in the STANDARD METHODS - Aging Cheese (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,184.0.html) Board.
Several book reviews in our Library, our list of web - mail order cheese making supply stores is here (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Links/Stores_Cheese_Making_Supplies.htm), several in Europe including one in Bulgaria.
Good luck!
Welcome S and Q. DO you have a way to reduce the temperature of the room a little? That sound like it might be a posible solution.
Hi John, sorry not got back to anyone sooner, thanks for all the information I have been given. As I am new to this, and this is a very big site can anyone put me in touch with goat owners producing their own milk and cheese thanks
Hi DeejayDebi
I too, think reducing the temperature of the room would be a good solution, but it is quite a big room, and it is the cost effectiveness of this that is my problem
I age several of my cheeses at 58-60F and get wonderful results. I usually hold them at the warmer temps for 60-90 days with a natural rind. Then I vacum bag and transfer to a cooler 52F cave environment. I would not want to keep cheeses long term at the higher temperature.
Hi SANDQ!
I am a goat owner that produces cheese from my own milk. I'll be happy to help you in any way I can.
I make cheddar. I allow for rind development around 65F-70F. If the room is too warm the rind becomes oily. You can tell when the rind is done when it feels dry and leathery. I age mine at 53F-55F and 80% humidity. I coat it lightly with lard but no bandage or wax.
Hi Christy
I have changed my air drying method this month I now dry in a dark store room which sits at arond 62 F constantly and I am getting much better results.
I do have a question about your " sealing method " why just lard and no bandage, and how do you clean the cheese to eat it? I sell most of my cheese and I am getting a lot of waste to make it presentable to customers Thanks Q
In my experience it stays cleaner without the bandage. Mine often age over 10 months with little or no cleaning required. The natural rind is about 1/4 inch thick and I just trim it off before I sell it.
Hi Christy
By cleaner do you mean less mold? Im using a Carrol, cheddar recipe ( she says ) especially for goats milk, but I'm being told on this site it is not a true cheddar. I'm selling what I produce but I'm not happy with the end product, though my customers are. I have now switched to using raw milk which has a minimum 60 day aging time, my first ( test ) batches have all sold, but are not how they should be. I have made over 10 kg using the information I have learned from this site, but I am reluctant to make any more before I have got it right.
So in the mean time I notice you use use goats milk for soap and moistureiser, whilst Im waiting for my last batches of cheese to age, can you give me some ideas on what to do with my surplus milk ( apart from sell my goats ) There is a big expat British community here in Bulgaria, and an even bigger niche market, I can see the potential I just dont have the knowledge to fill it, can you help?
Thanks Q
Yes, I mean very little mold at all. Just a light brushing keeps then looking really nice. I use raw milk too.
Have you ever made soap? It is not hard to do and goat milk soap is so good for your skin! What kind of oils can you get? Lard is good for soap making so are olive oil, coconut oil, palm oil, castor oil and safflower oil and almond oil. Can you get pure Lye (sodium hydroxide) it is a powder often used as a drain cleaner you will need it to make soap. let me know what you can get and I'll help you with a formula :)
Thanks Christy, no I haven't made soap before, most of the oils you mentioned we can get here, I will try to source the lye in a few days and will get back to you, thanks Q
Hi Christy
I went to my local hardware store today and got lye ( sodium hydroxide drain cleaner ) When I told the store owner it was making soap she informed me that here in Bulgaria they use caustic soda ( the recipe is even on the packet ) and lard, then they add a fragrance which the store also sells.
Anyway I have come home with 100 grms of lye and 100mls of soap fragrance ( bouquet ).
So, I am ready to have a go at making soap, so keenly await your help. thanks Q
Yes, caustic soda is another name for it here too. Okay, it sounds like you are ready to go. Since this is off the topic of goat cheddar let's move this conversation to the 'Other Artisan Crafts' board Here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,62.0.html) Just start a new topic and I will reply and help you.