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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Brie on April 23, 2010, 03:15:27 AM

Title: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 23, 2010, 03:15:27 AM
I've been waiting to open this one, and did last week at my wine and cheese tasting. Quite pleased with the results--it was so creamy! Back into the cave for further ripening of left-overs!
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 23, 2010, 03:22:32 AM
Looks perfect. Nice color, good blue penetration, and a wonderful disgusting looking rind. >:D As LinuxBoy said in another thread, "a 90 day old Stilton is a thing of beauty".
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 23, 2010, 03:25:08 AM
Looks great Brie! One of the best cheeses I've seen - wish I could try it.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 23, 2010, 03:55:52 AM
Ah--Mr. Sailor (aka the King of Blues) I am very proud to hear your accolades--I have followed each and every one of your threads.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 23, 2010, 04:04:43 AM
My friends keep eatting up all of mine, so I'm making 2 a week right now.

Try a little crystalized ginger in one sometime. The flavor is incredible. I am trying to figure out how to incorporate some lime or lemon zest.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 23, 2010, 04:35:31 AM
It's not that your tastes are eclectic,; they are only so in your cheese-making! Ginger in Stilton? Sesame Oil as a rub? Blueberries everywhere? I love it! As for the lemon/lime idea, I would grate and dry the peel (peel only, no white rind) and allow to dry. Then grind (coffe grinder comes to mind) and add to the curds before molding. I live in Arizona, so the fresh lemon peel only comes from lemons that are from the tree.; store-bought lemons are treated with wax so do not have the same
taste. Perhaps a freeze-dried lemon would work.
Thanks for all of your help!
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: linuxboy on April 23, 2010, 05:04:44 AM
Sailor, I would candy the peel, adding a dash of vanilla and some port, so that they become more buttery and have light caramel notes. Then in your final cheese, they'll work like a candied ginger, use the same make details. Meyer lemon would be especially good. IMHO, incorporating the oils into the curd as microzested or similar rind will give you a citrus-smelling stilton. May be good, but I would prefer to have the hunks of light sweetness and citrucy zing as chunks, as a flavor and texture contrast/complement to the taste and feel of the cheese paste.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 23, 2010, 05:19:44 AM
I am interested in your take on this, Linix--please help with your take on the rind--it's self-forming so please inform on the difference.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: linuxboy on April 23, 2010, 05:30:12 AM
That natural rind looks great to me. I like both a wrinkly and a smooth finish on a stilton. The wisps of what looks like penecillin or geo mold really adds some character in yours. Does it taste good? If it does, you have a winner :). Many people don't like to eat the rind, but that's one of my favorite parts.

In the previous post, I said candy the rind. Typed too fast, I meant the rind of the citrus, aka the peel.

edit: took a closer look. Seems like you have some proteolytic/peptolytic action happening right by the surface, more than happens with roqueforti, so looks like there was a white mold bloom. IMHO, this adds some depth to the blue, but also makes it not a strictly classic stilton style, which doesn't have much white mold action. The inside blueing in a stilton is blue, white notes are considered a defect. The paste looks creamy, almost like a stabilized brie. Another dead giveaway of a white penecillin mold, so what you made is a blue/white hybrid. That soft paste is a little tough to get with a blue mold alone.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 23, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
LB - What's the physical indicator of the "proteolytic/peptolytic action happening right by the surface"? What do you see that shows that?
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: linuxboy on April 23, 2010, 11:53:22 AM
See how right below the rind, all around the outer edge, there is this band? It's a different color than the rest of the cheese paste. It also looks to be a slightly more liquid than the rest of the cheese. That's one of the biggest indicators... that's what a brie or cam look like after a few weeks, and also what a lactic cheese with a white mold looks like. A normal blue with only blue will not have that (compare to your blues, for example, from what I recall in those pics, they were blue only).

The white mold on top of the blue in the inside, along with the more liquid paste confirms that there's some white mold, because blue mold, as aggressive as it is, does not have proteases/peptidases that are that active.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 23, 2010, 12:26:01 PM
Good eye LB. I see the whitish band below the rind. So the semi-liquification in bloomy rind cheeses such as brie and also in this Stilton is a function of proteolytic/peptolytic activity from the white mold? With hard cheeses, proteolysis really kicks in after the starter bacteria start dying off (and releasing enzymes). But that starts happening very early on with the white mold.

When I make blues, my cheeses are COVERED in blue mold and out compete anything else on the planet. :o I actually don't know how I would get a white to grow. I like the idea of a softer paste type hybrid blue/white so how would I get a little white to grow intentionally? Should this just be a surface application or added with starter? Seems like a white added with the starter might be too much. Is there a commercial blue/white cheese?
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 24, 2010, 03:29:08 AM
Good call, Linux, yes the white line is there. This, being my first Stilton, I would not have known the  difference. I followed the recipe for Ricki Carrol's Stilton--did not poke until 5 weeks and then again at 8 weeks. My additions were to  breathe at room temp once per week for 2 hours at room temp (outside of containers). A few times, I left out up to 8 hours. Used MA with LL & LC as starter. Raw organic milk. I have another aging--will be interesting to see if I have the same result.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: FarmerJd on April 24, 2010, 03:42:48 AM
That really looks great, Brie. I just opened my blue/stilton/whatever. It was 2 weeks early but it was really great. I did not have as much veining as you did but the taste is awesome. I am turning into a blue man I guess. I have been eating it on everything. It weighed 20 lbs so I have alot left in the cave for later. Did you post your basic process? I don't have Carrol's book and was just curious. What were the specs that it aged under? temp, humidity? Again, great job.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 24, 2010, 03:58:15 AM
I start poking holes as soon as I have a healthy blue bloom going and repeat about every 10 days for a month. I rippen at 58-64F in a Tupperware container with an inch of water in the bottom (with a few drops of StarSan). I leave the lid slightly ajar so the humidity doesn't "rain" on the cheese. I always get a fantastic bloom this way that looks like a cute blue fuzz ball.

I have started experimenting with a Blue Gouda. A professional cheesemaking friend told me some of his "secrets". He says that the trick is to pierce the Gouda right out of the press BEFORE brining. That way the brine helps seal the holes open to allow more oxygen deeper into the body of the cheese. Made my first one on March 12th. I'm going to cut it at 60 days to see how it worked. Since the Gouda is brined and not salted like a Stilton, I doubt that I would ever try to use blueberries. Maybe crystallized ginger though.... >:D
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Brie on April 24, 2010, 04:50:52 AM
I truly love this experimentation. I am wondering about piercing prior to brining, as brining produces the rind, which would impede the blue from entering the cheese, might just stagnate in the rind. I am interested to hear your results. All of your additions are enticing and should be no problem with Gouda--keep them inside the rind, which you already know.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 24, 2010, 03:22:38 PM
My chessemaker friend makes Blue Goudas (and many other cheeses) for a living so I trust his judgement. Gouda is pressed and has a much more closed texture than a Stilton. He says that if you pierce it like a blue, the holes will just close back in immediately. Brining after piercing prevents that. The thin rind that is formed in the holes can still pass oxygen into the body of the cheese. I add my blue with starter, so there is no problem with it "entering the cheese".

As far as my other "additives" like blueberries, I have tried this on other cheeses and the fruit just fermented. They seem to work just fine with cheeses that are salted before pressing - Stilton for example. Cheddar would probably work, but I don't like thought of the combination.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: BigCheese on July 08, 2010, 02:47:24 AM
Sailor,

I am planning to make a blue Gouda tomorrow by adding 1/4t P. Roqueforti to 8 gal milk. My question is regarding aging. Normally, I let the rind dry and then cream wax one coat and vacuum seal. Will waxing and or vac sealing prevent the mold from having the time to grow? Do I need to keep the cheeses out for 2-3 weeks as opposed to the normal 4-7 days?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on July 08, 2010, 02:56:18 AM
If you are going to do a blue gouda you have to go natural rind for at least three weeks. Waxing or vac bagging will cut off the oxygen and the mold will just die.

With a Gouda, you pierce after pressing and THEN brine. That keeps the holes open enough for oxygen transfer. The cheese needs high humidity for the blue mold to do well.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: BigCheese on July 08, 2010, 03:00:14 AM
Got it, sounds good! It can go into the 55F cave after a little while though, right?

One last thing, I have two piercing options: sterile toothpick or a thermometer probe. I feel like in between would be ideal, but which do you think would be better? For my recent Stiltons I used toothpick and have re-pierced the holes once since then.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on July 08, 2010, 03:03:40 AM
I like a bigger hole. Go with the probe. Keep the cheese at room temp until the blue takes hold and then move to your cave. If the cheese dries out the blue will crash early so use a ripenning box or keep the humidity way up.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: MrsMarbles on August 04, 2010, 06:56:47 PM
Well drat.  My Blue Goudas were looking good, until I realized that I was supposed to poke BEFORE brining.  Then I went straight for big holes, using a temp probe, and the rinds cracked a bit.  Guess I should have started with toothpick sized holes and moved up, since the rind was kind of tough after brining.

I was using the recipe in "Artisan cheese", which referred me back to the regular Gouda recipe, and I forgot to return to the Blue recipe for when to pierce.  For some reason I was thinking I should wait a week, but no... Well, now I have it in my notebook, so I'll work from there instead of getting myself confused while flipping between recipes.

Hopefully these will still taste good, though they're not so pretty anymore. 

My Gorgonzola isn't very pretty either, because I didn't get enough of the second day curds around the sides.  So the top and bottom are smooth, but on the sides it has a chunky more open texture. 

Oh well.  I'll eat the evidence and try again.
Title: Re: My First Stilton--Opened at Last!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on August 05, 2010, 03:41:15 AM
"Eat the evidence". I love it. Sounds like a great T-shirt. ;)