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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => FRESH LACTIC ACID COAGULATED - Normally No Whey Removed => Topic started by: judec on April 28, 2010, 09:10:11 PM

Title: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: judec on April 28, 2010, 09:10:11 PM
Hello all,
I have started to make yoghurt as well as cheese, but have found that the consistency is like thin runny slime.  It tastes fine but consistency is off putting.  How do I get some "thickness" or "body" into it without using a thickener?  Anyone else had this problem?
I use an organic store bought yoghurt for a starter which is very delicious and is runny but isn't like mine.
Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,  Judy.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: linuxboy on April 28, 2010, 09:24:13 PM
Are you heat treating the milk (185 F for 5-10 mins, then chill)? Or adding dry milk? Those are the only two ways without using a thickener. Or changing culture. Or making sure you culture at the right temp so the right cultures grow (should be 115).
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: judec on April 28, 2010, 11:42:15 PM
OK thanks.  How much milk powder do you add?  I did heat treat the milk I used but I don't usually.  How does that work as a good way for it to thicken?  I eill also try a different type of yoghurt.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: linuxboy on April 28, 2010, 11:54:16 PM
See my explanation for milk whey protein denaturing as necessary for thick yogurt here

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2924.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2924.0.html)

For the dry milk, start with a little and if you don't like it, add more the next time. Start with 3-5 TBSP per gallon.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: judec on April 29, 2010, 12:11:26 AM
thank you linxboy.  Thats great information.  Will let you know how my next bach goes.
Jude.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: BigCheese on April 29, 2010, 02:43:13 AM
I saw Sailor mention on anoher thread that he adds a little LM57 to give thickness to his yogurt, I am going to be trying that soon in hopes of replacing powdered milk approach.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: MrsKK on April 29, 2010, 12:40:23 PM
I had trouble getting a good yogurt until I read the thread here about heating the milk to 185* F and holding it there for about 20 minutes before cooling it off to add the culture.  I use Greek yogurt as my starter, reserving some back for future batches, and have had wonderful yogurt ever since I started using this method.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: BigCheese on April 29, 2010, 02:39:00 PM
This is interesting. If I ever find myself making yogurt from store-bought milk again I will do this, but I want to keep my yogurt raw so unfortunately I have to find a different way.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 29, 2010, 04:17:46 PM
Heating to 180F is not just for pasteurization. The heat denatures the proteins and prepares the milk to make a thicker yogurt. If you want to keep the natural bacteria, you can always add a little raw milk back in after it cools down. All it takes is a tiny bit, because the bacteria will multiply. It is illegal to sell raw milk yogurt in the USA.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: BigCheese on April 29, 2010, 04:21:14 PM
Not with a cowshare program :) but anyway we just use it for ourselves.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: judec on April 30, 2010, 11:19:49 PM
 O0  Well damn.  I did the heating thing and followed directions but this time I got thick snot instead of thin slime!  It's pretty yuk.  Better try a new culture in the first instance.
I am finding making yoghurt tricky.  It has always been so easy using the packet stuff that you put in the chilly bin.  But I really want to make it with my cows milk.
When I started making cheese I always had great success.  It is only since I have been making more complicated cheese recipes that I have had a few that aren't so good but still edible.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: linuxboy on April 30, 2010, 11:24:26 PM
Yeah, try a new culture. At what temp are you incubating the yogurt?
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: iratherfly on May 01, 2010, 09:31:41 PM
I have been making A LOT of yogurt and have gotten quite good at controlling the flavor and texture to my craving so I think this may help:

I find that between choosing the right culture and figuring out the incubation time, you can really control your yogurt's texture quite well. As a rule of thumb (with MANY exceptions - explained below): More time = stronger yogurt / More culture = thicker yogurt

The bacterial process in the yogurt is NOT straightforward common-sense. For example, one proactive bacteria processes milk sugars into gel, resulting in hard, gelled, lumpy, curdy yogurt in as little as 4 hours. But... this gel is now perfect food for another bacteria so now it eats it up, grows faster, starve the previous bacteria by eating up its food and by the 6th hour it turns your yogurt back into liquid form (and change its flavor profile) against all obvious expectations. Experiment with incubation times!

Another tip has to do with the heating of the milk; You do this to modify the protein and sugar in the milk. If you hold it at high temp for a few minutes, it would affect the thickness of your yogurt. Don't over do this because you will end up ultra-pasteurizing your milk (UHT) rendering it non-responsive to your culture. Once you have reached your desired heat, you must cool the milk down VERY RAPIDLY to 115F. Put the pot in a huge bowl of ice water (like a double boiler) where there is a good flow of air. Stir it lightly to incorporate air, get coolness from the sides and to even out the temp. Have the thermometer tell you in real time how you are doing. If you fail at this you will over pasteurize your milk. If you don't stop at 115F the bacteria will not activate and you will have to wait for your incubator to bring the milk temp back up which could take a very long time, affecting the milk acidity and lactic acid before the culture is active.

Then there is a matter of selecting your favorite culture. They are not equally created. Each brand has its own bacterial variety mix and they seriously vary in texture, flavor profile and tanginess. You can also copy your favorite yogurt by using it as the mother culture for your batch. (as long as the mother yogurt doesn't have additives it would work.)

And lastly, there is the milk. I like mine non-homogenized so I get the classic cream-top lumpiness. (Try some of the brands that do that at your local Whole Foods or competing store: Sky Top, Cultural Revolution, Siggi's, Liberté, Eviran) This is how yogurt is meant to be. I never add anything to my basic yogurt to thicken it up. It's fake and cheap in my opinion. I only do this by controlling incubation and culture, and straining it "Greek-style". The straining is also what the premium brands like Fage and Chobani do.  Unfortunately however, too many people grew up on Yoplait and Danon, thinking that this cheap smooth liquidy nonsense is the basic flavor and texture of yogurt. That's like growing up on Craft Singles and Tillamook Cheddar before biting into a Camembert or Comté for the first time, thinking that these cheeses are off because they lack ther plastic and have holes and mold... These yogurts have very low content of actual yogurt. They are usually made from giant batches of cheap homogenized milk and diluted with more milk, then thickened up with gums, stabilizers, starches, pectin and milk powder to fake a yogurt feeling and add volume without paying for it.  If you hate the lumpy or gel feeling of yogurt, perhaps you want to further homogenize your milk and play with incubation as I explained above. Alternatively, consider making Kefir instead of yogurt. It's far more liquidy and less lumpy.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: judec on May 01, 2010, 09:45:34 PM
Thanks for the great replies.  I will experiment again and let you know how it goes.

Judy
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: MrsKK on May 02, 2010, 01:57:13 PM
What are you using as a culture?  I tried several different store brands with no results that satisfied me, then tried Greek Gods yogurt.  They were out of plain, so I bought the honey version and it worked out wonderfully.  I've been re-culturing from the same batch for 8 months now and it tastes just as good as the first time.

I've even had friends say that my yogurt is better than Greek Gods.
Title: Re: Yoghurt - How Change Consistency
Post by: iratherfly on May 02, 2010, 11:15:45 PM
I like using the yogurt of Sky-Top and Fage brands as a mother culture. When I don't have it, I use a brand of culture called Yogurmet which you can get at Whole Foods. Very tangy and when strained it's a perfect greek yogurt. Leave it out starining covered with a cloth for another day and you get Labaneh cheese. There is a brand of yogurt makers Euro Cuisine - they also sell culture under their brand and you can find it easily online on eBay and Amazon. I am almost sure that this is the same as that Yogurmet because it contains the same bacteria collection, tastes the same and the package looks the same just with different brand printed on it.

I just got a pack of "Y5 Yogurt Culture" from  New England Cheesemaking but have not tried it yet.