I'm hoping to make a batch of hard cheese in the not to distant future. I have a large ss pot to make it in but I cant afford a proper curd knife so I have been trying to think of cost effective solutions.
I was thinking stringing some fishing line between 3 dowels might work. Then i could just place the middle dowel in the center of the pot and run the outer dowel around the outer edge and I should get a uniform cut curd.
I will have to of course find a line that is safe for immersing in acidic liquid with out breaking down and releasing anything toxic.
So if anyone has any comments on why it wont work or ideas for making it better I would welcome the feedback!
This is a great idea. I would only suggest to make a completely closed frame, so all the wires may be tensioned.
That's a great point Alex, I would lose tension in the middle without dowel at the bottom. Now I just have to figure what is the thinnest dowel I can use with out it flexing too much.
I am hoping to begin making my cutter today. You should really search the forum for curd cutters, there are a lot of pictures, ideas, and considerations.
Here are a few things to consider:
You do not want too small of a dowel that the tension of the wire would start to bend it.
I ordered SS trolling line from Cabela's I think I got the .18 size. It was $8-ish for 230ft.
How will you attach the wires, consider if you tie them, for example, the risk of bacteria growing in the crevices of ties.
The consensus here seems to be that putting a grid of wires (as opposed to just one direction) in one cutter is not good as it will be too much resistance pulling against the curds. I personally think it might be okay, depending on the cutter and the wire gauge.
Also, if the cutter pictured above is the only one your going to make, remember all you will get with that is like cubic rings that go around inside of the pot. From there you can cut it with a curd knife but it will be difficult to get super-even cubes because you are cutting into a bunch of rings. I hope that makes sense.
Maybe I will have a picture of my setup soon, assuming it pans out. It is going to be two pieces, one that pushes straight down into the pot and cuts columns of curds, and another to spin on the inside to cut the levels.
But I really suggest reading all the posts about curd cutters.
Quote from: Nitai on April 29, 2010, 02:54:35 PM
I am hoping to begin making my cutter today. You should really search the forum for curd cutters, there are a lot of pictures, ideas, and considerations.
Here are a few things to consider:
You do not want too small of a dowel that the tension of the wire would start to bend it.
I ordered SS trolling line from Cabela's I think I got the .18 size. It was $8-ish for 230ft.
How will you attach the wires, consider if you tie them, for example, the risk of bacteria growing in the crevices of ties.
The consensus here seems to be that putting a grid of wires (as opposed to just one direction) in one cutter is not good as it will be too much resistance pulling against the curds. I personally think it might be okay, depending on the cutter and the wire gauge.
Also, if the cutter pictured above is the only one your going to make, remember all you will get with that is like cubic rings that go around inside of the pot. From there you can cut it with a curd knife but it will be difficult to get super-even cubes because you are cutting into a bunch of rings. I hope that makes sense.
Maybe I will have a picture of my setup soon, assuming it pans out. It is going to be two pieces, one that pushes straight down into the pot and cuts columns of curds, and another to spin on the inside to cut the levels.
But I really suggest reading all the posts about curd cutters.
Wow Nitai thanks for that great post! You gave me a lot more to think about. Two different cutters one circle one for the vertical and one (like my original idea) for the horizontal cuts. I never though about the bacteria growth where the line is tied on, I will have to think about that . . . would a brush and vinegar water solution be able to take care of that?
I think if the wire gauge is low enough it should cut the curd with out tearing but I will have to do some tests.
If possible please post picture of your building processes I would love to see that.
I will check out the previous threads on the subject!
I make professional cheese making equipment and we discussed this idea years ago and came to the conclusion that making a single cutting with cross wires as well as up and down wires on the same cutter is a bad idea. Mainly because the tests we did, the cutter required way too much pressure to move it and trying to force everything through a uniform opening damaged the curd releasing more whey than is wanted.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for experimentation and I'm in no way discouraging you just thought I'd mention the work I've done on this type of design.
Yeah, no need to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. Personally, I want to copy the design of Wayne on his curd cutter (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1878.msg13992.html#msg13992).
@Cartierusm That is exactly the kind of feed back I'm looking for. If something has been tried and didn't work then I do not need to be repeating it!
@MarkShelton Ya I saw that design. I just need to figure out how to make something like that with the materials and tools I have on hand. I might try thin dowel and very thin stainless steel guitar strings.
Sorry I never posted pictures of the process of mine. I have taken some and will try to get them up today. The snag I ran into was connecting the stainless steel. Solution: after some hours of research and talking with people, and deep contemplation, I found a very nice local fabricator who is happy to weld my frames in trade for various dairy products! Problem solved and welded frames will be far far better than any of my other options. I am taking them to her on Mon and hoping to get them back by Wed. In the meantime it has been a lot of paneer and fromage blanc.
As far as the wire there are generally two ways to go. First off don't use stainless guitar wire unless you have a whole bunch lying around, trust me even at $3 a string it will get way too expensive.
Look on amazon or go to a local fishing shop and buy stainless wire for fishing, it comes in different gauges and is way cheaper, you can also use stainless mig welding wire. That's really cheap when your talking about about 20 feet or so. You can't really buy that little so go to a local weld shop tell them what you're doing and see if they'll see you 20' of .023" stainless welding wire for $5. Or call up welding supply shops and see if they have any small spools or broken ones they can't sell.
Cabela's has a wide range of SS wire gauges, I got mine for $7-ish for 223 ft.
I found this:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_8582____SearchResults (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_8582____SearchResults)
.014" DIAMETER seems pretty good.
Wayne's design is exactly the one I want to go after also.
But I'm just trying to wrap my head around what is holding his wire in place at the bottom of his knife and how he attached the wire to his eyelet hooks and --most importantly, how they stay attached like that without coming loose.
The pictures dont give much detail.
This was a little further down in the thread:
Quote from: Wayne Harris on September 15, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
Actually, I ran t he wire from one eyebolt down, then back up to the next eyebolt. So i never had to terminate them.
I wonder if the whole thing can be strung with 1 wire, and only 2 eyebolts. It might take a bit to get it tightened up with all those bends, and if it breaks, it would be more of a hassle to replace, but it would "clean up" the design a little.
Perhaps someone can clarify for me: On Wayne's thread his curd-cutter seems to only make vertical cuts. What about horizontal? I am building two pieces one to make vertical cuts and one to make horizontal, how could just one be sufficient?
That's a good question. I have actually thought of making a horizontal knife, as my knife is only a vertical one..
But if you look, there are actually a couple horizontal wires that make some horizontal cuts.
After the vertical cut, I then gently stir it all a bit, and then run the knife through again.
In the end, All the curd is cut, and its uniform enough for me right now.
Mark, That is a great Idea. I actually may restring this thing with your idea......
I have another thought...
If you made one that was square, you would only have to make a cutter with wires going one direction. Then, you could drill holes in the top and side to mount a handle. That way, you could cut the curd in one direction, then move the handle and the wires would be oriented to cut the curd in the opposite plane.
I think it would only work if the pot it was used in is shallow and wide, instead of deep and tall, and I haven't considered if the eyebolt attachment of the wires would have to be modified.
It's a thought...
Quote from: MarkShelton on May 16, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
I have another thought...
If you made one that was square, you would only have to make a cutter with wires going one direction. Then, you could drill holes in the top and side to mount a handle. That way, you could cut the curd in one direction, then move the handle and the wires would be oriented to cut the curd in the opposite plane.
It's a thought...
A damn good one! Even for a deep pot it might work if the dimensions were such that the depth was like 3 times the radius, for example. It would require a steady hand no doubt. Well I am far too commited (in terms of time, money, and mental energy) to the setup I am already doing, but if I were starting from scratch I would definitely think a lot about this idea. As for me, I drop my frames off to the fabricator tomorrow! Finally.
Interesting, But that would not work for me as my pot is deeper than it is wide.
I could not use a square cutter..
Quote from: MarkShelton on May 16, 2010, 09:14:10 AM
This was a little further down in the thread:
Quote from: Wayne Harris on September 15, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
Actually, I ran t he wire from one eyebolt down, then back up to the next eyebolt. So i never had to terminate them.
Ah-- so in other words, he just drilled holes at the bottom of his frame and strung his wire through there and up to the next eye-bolt. Is that correct?
It looks like there is something else at the bottom holding the wire though...
I can't make it out, but it looks as if something's there.
As well as the wire in the middle.
Nope, Wires run from an eye-bolt, down through a hole, and back up up to the next eye-bolt. Thats it.
Yes there is a single horizontal wire.
Wayne, it might work for a tall pot if you have a longer handle on the cutter. I'm imagining something like a flyswatter. It would take multiple passes at different levels in the pot, though.
Hooray! The welding is done. Now I just need to string the wire but I couldn't resist posting pictures now. The round fits just snugly in my pot and will be stung in only one direction. Then I will turn it 90 and cut it the other diection. The rectangular frame will make horizontal cuts. The small rectangle that comes out on the side is the handle to spin the cutter. I can't wait to get this going!
Wow Nitai That looks amazing!
Quote from: Wayne Harris on May 17, 2010, 11:32:19 AM
Nope, Wires run from an eye-bolt, down through a hole, and back up up to the next eye-bolt. Thats it.
Yes there is a single horizontal wire.
Okay-- so let me get this straight. for every two eye-bolts, you have one wire in between them being held in place by the two eyebolts? And the pattern continued until you reached the very end of your knife.
Okay. gotcha.
Now-- since there is only ONE wire being held by ONE eyebolt (i think it's a smaller eyebolt) in the middle WHAT is holding the other end of it in place?
sorry for the questions, just trying to understand this all.
Quote from: Nitai on May 19, 2010, 04:35:48 AM
Hooray! The welding is done. Now I just need to string the wire but I couldn't resist posting pictures now. The round fits just snugly in my pot and will be stung in only one direction. Then I will turn it 90 and cut it the other diection. The rectangular frame will make horizontal cuts. The small rectangle that comes out on the side is the handle to spin the cutter. I can't wait to get this going!
great designs. Did you silver solder your frame pieces together?
No, in the end I found a local machine shop with a very nice woman enthusiastic to weld them in exchange for dairy, which we have oh so much of right now (about 45 gallons per week after distribution to shareholders). So the entire thing is professionally welded and very sturdy. I dont think the horizontal cutter will even need a middle support, as the wires will not be super duper tight. Cant wait to get into this!
I am very very impressed. Nice work.
Has anyone tried making one knive but with diagonal wires. The curds would be cut like diamonds but all you'd have to do it turn it around for the second cut.
that sounds like it could work quite well. At first I thought it would be problematic in a round pot but then I realized you just do one circle with one side of the cutter as the center point, pull it out and do a circle with the other side as the center.
Sounds like I'd work. I actaully have a few recipes that tell you to cut in diamond cuts.
Wouldn't that leave you with diamond-shaped rings? Because if you were to think of it in a linear way, 2 passes with the wires in opposite directions would yield diamond-shaped rods. (doing it in a pot with the using a knife that reaches the center would be this scenario--linear diamond-shaped rods--with the ends connected). You would still have to make some kind of vertical cuts.
I think It would work well if you have a narrower one like Wayne's, except with diagonal wires. Then you would have to make passes perpendicular to each other across the plane made by the top of the curd.
I think this is making sense to me... I hope this is making sense to someone other than me too... Can anyone else visualize this?
I get it, Mark. Good visualizing.
I see what your saying. That would happen if you cut in a circle. You would have to turn the cutter to go north and south then east and west for example to get diamonds. I am using a retangular shaped pot so that would make it easier I guess.
Yes, and actually, I was thinking the chafing dish you use would be good with the square I proposed earlier in this thread. (the one where the handle moves 90 degrees to make a knife that cuts in both planes). That way there aren't vertical cuts in with the diamond cuts. It's the only drawback with the diagonal-wired idea as far as I can tell. Not that it is a major issue.
I actuall started one last spring that fir in my chaffing dish in both directions but got side tacked for about 6 months due to family emergencies and darned if I know where I put the thing. I know it was that safe place I can never find again. ;)
After I went and bought a rectangular 40 liter pan to use Wayne's style curd knife, I see Nitai's round idea.
If the round part were woven like I did my mill, and horizontal wires on the uppers, 1 push down and 1 twist, all curds would be cut nicely!
Looks good to me!