So last week something exciting happened. I gathered my chutzpah and set up a meeting with one of New York City's most prominent French cuisine chefs. I admire the guy. We set down to talk cheese and terroir. He showed me his classic cheese tasting menu and I brought 4 cheeses of my very own recipes, I did a tasting (accompanied by fresh bread and his amazing fruit confitures). As he bit into the 4th one (I kept the best for last) he looked approvingly at me and uttered "What the #&*%, man?".
His new plan: Get rid of his 12 French classic and replace them with 8 original cheeses which I develop for him; my name on the menu and all the PR we can get for it too... Whoa!
But... in NY, cheese for public consumption needs to be made at an approved dairy plant. Ridiculous rules and all. (Less strict for me because I bring the milk in already pasteurized from certified dairy producers). He did offer me his commercial kitchen but that's not a good fit with the space, climate and sterile environment I need. (though, maybe the law enables you to sellin a restaurant cheese that was made in that very restaurant? Does anyone know?)
This is a great opportunity, I want to move forward, it's not going to be a real money maker for a while but it is a great way to test my cheese commercially and have answers instead of assumptions when it's time to increase production. It seems that the only viable way to accomplish this would be to use someone else's facility. The off hours of a dairy plant, an empty commercial kitchen, the cheese caves of the city's famous affineurs (Murray's or Artisanal), maybe a dairy room at a school somewhere?
Does anyone have any ideas for me? (or, does anyone know of a place in NYC where I can do that?) is there an easy, inexpensive setup you know of? An organization that can help maybe?
Photo below: The star of my cheese tasting
Bravo, Irather. Is that a lactic curd ashed cam with complex candidum culture brine dunked toward the end to arrest proteolysis? Looks fantastic... kudos. A challenging cheese.
You're on the right track. You need to rent a dedicated facility and use part of their affinage room, or another dedicated affinage room (although transport isn't fun), and produce off hours. Commercial kitchens or the like aren't good enough, IMHO. You need some place that has less stray bacteria/molds flying about. Otherwise, you'll likely struggle with quality control challenges.
Start here http://www.nyfarmcheese.org/cheesemakers.asp (http://www.nyfarmcheese.org/cheesemakers.asp)
VERY nice looking cheese.
Obviously cheeses aged under 60 days have to use pasteurized milk. In Kentucky, I can't simply bring in milk that is already pasteurized. They require the milk to be pasteurized on site even if it has already been pasteurized at a certified facility. We also cannot transport milk from point A to point B without a Milk Haulers license, even just from the grocery store to the shop. These rules would be even more strictly enforced if I were using someone else's commercial kitchen. Raw milk in a commercial kitchen would send the regulators off the deep end. So, the state does not approve cheesemaking in commercial kitchens that are used for ANY other activities. The site must be dedicated to cheesemaking. Restaurants are forbidden from making anything except uncultured Mascarpones, etc. Here it is the facility, not the cheesemaker that gets the license to make cheese. Changing locations would require going thru the whole process again. :'(
Here, the state, not the city regulates cheese production. HOWEVER, if you make a product FROM cheese, like a cheese spread, that requires city health inspections. NY is probably stricter.
Just some things to check out before you get too far in your planning.
I think the regulations differ in all states. I checked with the health department here, and cheese-making falls under a different jurisdiction than restaurants. However, if the cheese is made in a restaurant, they may sell it only as part of their menu--so you may want to check that out in NY. When you are making cheese to sell, it not only must meet health regulations for processing, but also packaging regulations established by the FDA. Why don't you make and sell your cheese at the restaurant to begin with, and establish your name and make some cash, then move on to the next step. That would be a perfect test for you! Good luck, I am always so envious of you!
Thanks so much Linuxboy, Sailor and Brie!
For the time being, the person in charge in NY state said she would love to help and can even get involved in building a facility. She sent me this exhausting list of regulations for what she says I need - to become a "Part 2 compliant dairy plant". I almost fainted just going through the table of contents. There has to be a better way to produce a measly 200 wheels of cheese a month for consumption of a single restaurant. (see attached PDF to this post below)
Linuxboy - Thanks for the link! Yes, your description is pretty close (but I gave you most of the details in the past...) I do have some tricks with this cheese that keep is insanely sharp and grassy. Getting the rind right on them took forever.
Sailor - Thank you too. Yes, I believe you got it right; cheese regulations are under state jurisdiction and not federal. In NY state milk production is licensed and must pass strict guidelines. They have something that's called Milk Receiving License - this is a permit to receive and keep milk from certified milk producers. I believe that if I have that permit I would not need to go through re-pasteurization and destroy the milk. I totally agree that a kitchen, even commercial is not proper (unless I rent a standalone commercial kitchen that is not used by anyone and than the place and hygiene are in my control). I believe that I can figure out an affinage solution (If not from Murray's or Artisanal than I would just rent and temp control a basement storage unit.. the funny thing is that the fabrication is tightly regulated but I suspect that affinage isn't at all)
I do not yet intend to produce anything from raw milk, but in NY state there is a license to sell it as long as the producer sells it on the farm. They have strict guidelines for bacterial levels and these dairies must be inspected very often so the quality of raw milk is strictly supervised by the state.
Brie - Thank you too! You are mostly right as per what Sailor said. Packaging isn't a big concern if I sell it in the restaurant. Yes, I can make them somewhere and sell them in the restaurant prior to getting the paperwork in order and making a capital investment, but there are two issues; first, this is New York City and this restaurant isn't anonymous exactly... This is great PR for the restaurant and they will use it. The last thing I want is for them (and me I assume) to get in trouble as soon as someone from the Post puts up an article about fantastic illegal cheese selling at this place... The second thing is, well there is a reason for these regulations. I can't Micky mouse when feeding the public. Sure, some of them is ridiculous (especially the ones concerning raw milk cheeses) but cross contamination is a serious issue and my liability would be tremendous if I make someone sick. No matter what the reason is, I will be blamed if I have not complied with regulations.
And not only will you be blamed, but the restaurant as well. I have been in food service my entire life and there are oh-so-many rules and restrictions that vary by city, county and state. This should not deter you, though, it should just make you more alert. Beginning with the dairy--we need to cover our derrieries!
Just a thought...
What about contracting the cheese making out to an already certified operation. You could teach them to make your cheese to your specs. This could be a temporary arrangement but would yield a lot of info before you make all that investment. Also, it could get your production up and running fairly quickly.
Whatever you decide to do, congratulations! What an exciting opportunity!
Pam
Pam has a really good thought about outsourcing or renting facilities. It's compelling to start quickly and establish a market before you spend money on your own facilities. And affinage isn't an issue, like you said. Heck, you could even spend $5,000 and buy yourself a refrigerated trailer and another $1,000 in shelves and you have a 40' x 9' high area. A few coolbots and you're set.
If you want to build your own, it is a bit of an ordeal. Sailor and I are working on our plans and builds right now, and it's expensive and time consuming. Spinning head looking at the regs is normal. If you want to figure it out, break it down into components. The regs are like a checklist. Must have toilet, must have impervious, washable surface, drainage, deep sink, etc. If you address one requirement at a time, it's not so scary.
You may also want to talk to Jos Vulto. He's in NY, posts on here as Oude Kaas, and writes the blog http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/. (http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/.) I know he just got a vat and is working on his build right now. Maybe you could do something together?
Hi IRF and everyone,
I am also looking to make a cheese kitchen. Here in Maine they are really helpful as they want small business to work. If you have space in your house or an out building that already has facilities then you are saving alot of cost, I know folks who have very small operations and one friend 's space is just 10x10, and of course you can save alot through used commercial equipment. I think the idea of making the cheese at the restaurant sounds the most practical to start out.
I wish there was a place that made smaller pasterurizers.
Missy
Thanks, Brie
Pam and Linuxboy - This is the big thought here exactly. I thoroughly enjoy inventing, developing and improving cheese, but I don't see myself cutting curd as a worker bee for the rest of my life. Since I live in the world's chef capital and I am on an island with not much farming in reasonable distance, my grand concept is to develop cheeses here in the ciity, in a small operation that's just enough to supply initial production and do market tests for new cheese (Call it "citystead"?) - then, license the production to capable facilities. This way, I don't have costs of plant and product liabilities galore; moreover, I can approach producers with cheese that has already been tested and proven viable for production and consumer demand, possibly even with supply orders from restaurants and cheese shops, so the producer/farmer too has little risk. My name, my brand, my standards, my branding and packaging - their production and/or milk. There is the ultimate challenge though: Can one produce commercially viable artisanal cheese in the heart of the city? This hobby is turning into an accidental career...
There are fantastic different milks I can get from regional farmers. There is virtually an unlimited variety of cultures I can obtain. This town has world-class affinage facilities and then there is the feedback that I can get here via the delicate palates of chefs, sommeliers, fromagiers, and international crowd of discerning foodies. I am sure can develop fantastic cheese.
I emailed back and forth with Jos Vulto about a year ago. Super helpful and nice guy. He makes cheese in Brooklyn, however this isn't a certified facility (his basement as I understand). He is in the process of building a creamery in upstate NY but that's already too far from the city for me.
As you can see from the 95 page PDF attachment... a cooling truck may not be enough. about 2/3 of this document doesn't apply to me because I don't milk or pasteurize and the remaining few pages about facility requirements and asking that employees wash hands and cover their head is all pretty normal stuff, nothing outrageous or crazy. Perhaps a commercial kitchen that is NOT in use can be enough as long as I comply with all regulations.
Missy - Unfortunately doing this in the house is legally strictly forbidden due to possible cross contamination issues. Also, I am an apartment dweller and I find it hard to believe that I can crank out a few hundred wheels a month out of my living room. I can barely deal with the 20 I have going right now... Doing it in the restaurant, even if it was legally OK present some other issues: A small hot kitchen with chefs running around spilling food and cutting bread... I don't see how I can make cheese, leave it there and let it drain and turn for 24-48 hours at a time without contaminating it or destroying it with acidity. I am also not clear about where to age them in this arrangement
Beautiful cheese hon. I wish you luck with your adventure into the cheese business. Other than finding a place you could rent that is purely for your own use I can't see how you could do it.
I have a cheese operation in CT you could get time in, but it's still probably too far.
I would get clarification on the pasteurization, I find it incredibly hard to believe that you can recieve pasteurized milk and NOT have to recook. If that were the case virtually anyone could make cheese in a commercial kitchen for retail sale.
I think their issue is more about cross contamination. In NY they certify a milk RECEIVING operation so that you meet guidelines that maintain the freshness of pasteurized milk. It seems from what I read that you need to re-pasteurize only milk that has been opened previously or came in contact with an area or objects that are not sanitary.
I am jealous at your Connecticut-ness. You guys can buy raw milk in the supermarket. Fantastic! Where in CT are you? Maybe I'll pay you a visit? What cheeses do you produce?
I still doubt you, sorry. I can't belive that a DoAg would allow it because, in my experience anyway, they don't certify transport tankers or require an RMP that covers tankers. The tankers are certified 3A for transport of bulk only and do not normally have active cooling as they are going straight from cooled tank on the farm to chilled silo. It seems very risky that contamination could happen in a 3A tanker. Where I am now even with an aseptic pod filled with pasteurized milk the factory is required to repasteurize on reciept because transport is not chilled. In any case if your lic. authority will sign it off then great, no problems I suppose.
My operation is in rural CT. PM me if you'd like more info.
You are correct; they have very specific regulations for what a truck receiving station should be like. I fall under the "less than 3,000 gallons a month" rule and I get my milk in 1 gallon plastic bottles, as a supermarket chain would receive it.
Francois makes a great point. If they didn't require re-pasteurizing on location, then not only restaurants, but grocery stores could be making their own fresh cheeses. My inspector has pointed out to me SEVERAL times that you never know where milk has been or how it has really been treated during transport, so his philosophy is "better safe than sorry".
Pasteurization does NOT kill all bacteria, that's why an unopened jug of milk will spoil in the refrigerator. UP kills many more (but not all), so it has a longer shelf life. But it's also worthless for making cheese. Properly produced, the starter bacteria in a cheese aged over 60 days are going to outcompete any contaminants. A fresh soft cheese is a whole different ballgame. Those lingering contaminants that spoil milk can & will easily remain viable. If one of those contaminants is E. coli or another pathogen, then there's a huge potential problem. However, as a cheesemaker, your going to know within a few days if there is a serious contamination problem by the smell and texture of the cheese. It will smell and look like bad cheese.
So, I guess I can understand where the regulators are coming from on re-pasteurizing. I certainly don't want a minimum wage worker bee making cheese at my local grocery store. That's where states need to certify trained cheesemakers (like in Wisconsin) and not just the facility. A TRAINED cheesemaker should be allowed to do many things that an untrained worker bee can't.
Thanks Sailor, I will have a talk with the nice lady from the state. She is very helpful. I don't see how they can require me to pasteurize if I have the right to make a 60 day raw milk cheese on premises, but if they do I will be sure to get only raw milk in so that it doesn't have to be pasteurized twice and that I have control over it - I prefer gentle lengthy pasteurization to some of the quick violent processes that milk producers engage in (not ultra pasteurized but quick and hot just below it). In any case, from what I read here they do certifying for the receiving station in the plant and for the trucks and for you as a milk receiver - separate from the license to produce dairy
You live in an apartment? Where are you making this cheese and aging it?
I think I must be missing something. :-[
Hey Alice, sorry it took so long to get back to you; I was traveling for the summer.
Yes! I am a Manhattan apartment dweller. In New York standards my apartment is considered huge, but in normal American standards its really quite small. I have a great galley style kitchen with tiles, marble and stainless steel sinks so it is easy to keep clean and sanitize. I also have press that is stored when I don't use it and a special cabinet for all my molds, cheese cloths etc. I have a few large commercial pots used as vats but when I don't use them, they contain my normal kitchen mixing bowls, colanders, etc in the cupboard.
I focus on smaller cheeses so I can make a lot (My largest is 7.5" but most of my cheeses are in the 3"-5.5" diameter range). I also focus on intense cheeses, where a small bite goes a long way. This means that they are being consumed as slow as a large mild cheese.
I have a wine refrigerator next to my desk. It's perfect for cheese because if keeps the humidity in and operates in the 50F-60F range which is perfect for long aging of most cheese and initial aging of surface ripened cheese (Camembert or Crottin style). It has wooden shelves and it is lined up with straw which locks in humidity and keeps the microorganisms busy. (Wine fridge is also perfect to cure meats, keep chocolates and of course, store wine bottles). Whenever a cheese is done with the cave aging I move it to my refrigerator where it can be isolated in containers at 41F. I make more than plenty with this, but for commercial cheesemaking it wouldn't be enough (nor would it be legal or responsible)
Quote from: Brie on June 04, 2010, 01:55:32 AM
I think the regulations differ in all states. I checked with the health department here, and cheese-making falls under a different jurisdiction than restaurants. However, if the cheese is made in a restaurant, they may sell it only as part of their menu--so you may want to check that out in NY. When you are making cheese to sell, it not only must meet health regulations for processing, but also packaging regulations established by the FDA. Why don't you make and sell your cheese at the restaurant to begin with, and establish your name and make some cash, then move on to the next step. That would be a perfect test for you! Good luck, I am always so envious of you!
I also think so.thanks
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Not that it is an important point to the conversation but for clarification - we have Co-Ops and Health Foods stores that you can buy raw milk from in CT, not supermarkets. The small size of these stores makes the price extremely high - generally $6 per 1/2 gallon plus $2 bottle deposit. All are sold in glass bottles so the out the door price is $8 per 1/2 gallon. Many on the farm sellers sell raw cows milk for $6 per gallon.
I am in NY. have a raw milk license and I am in the process of building My cheese processing room.
You will need to re- pasteurize any milk or milk product you put into cheese. If you add cream that you purchase at wal-mart you need to pasteurize it and it must be pasteurized in a vat pasteurizer, I just spent $10,000.00 on mine.
The regs are long and hard to follow but the folks are very willing to help.
Where in NY are you? I would love to talk!
I am in Sullivan county.Fallsburg to be exact.
www.mandsfarm.com (http://www.mandsfarm.com)
You are welcome anytime.
Sorry, I have been so busy this past couple of weeks. I will contact you as soon as I have a minute to breathe!
Hey Yoav, How's your struggle going to get this operation off the ground? Any news? It's already been mentioned in the string, but getting time at an already established cheese facility is going to be your best bet, I presume. Will save you many headaches, especially if the place has a good reputation with the local inspector. By the way, how long of a dunk in the brine did you give that great cheese (the cheese that started it all!) to stop the activity?
Ah, well, I have just launched my latest tech startup and it's energetically and financially exhausting! Unfortunately I haven't had time to make as much cheese as I wanted (though I am trying to catch up). I am torn between the tech and cheese, but I can be more patient with the cheese for now. Not a lot of progress. Hope to begin aging some cheese this year at Murray's cellars but I still don't have any confirmation as far as a legal facility goes. One of the options I am willing to try is to pre-sell the cheese wholesale to chefs, distributors and shops. Then I certify legal farmsteads to produce it for me. Kind of loses the Manhattan made cheese element though.
Does anyone have experience with that here?
As for that cheese dunking. About 15 min/side. Remember that I am not doing osmosis to further salt the cheese or extract moisture. All I want to do is stop that geo from growing and strengthen the rind.
Perhaps we should talk.
I have just gotten by cheese vat and awaiting full milk production.
We might be able to work something out, My facility your recipe and contacts? Who knows might be profitable to both of us.
Sure Steff! Send me a personal message and let's connect. Sorry for the late reply, I have been under the weather.