I have wreck at least 3 batches of parmesan. Grr. The curds seem to mat or get rubbery and squeaky all the dang time!!
I am using the recipe on the the site, fresh raw jersey milk that has been cream separated, and thermophilic b from the cheesemaker.
Any advice?
Normal for them to mat with parm, you have to stir and stir with parm to get the curd size down fast, and then let them mat on the bottom of the pot.
so you do let them mat before pressing? Mine I pressed anyways and its like dual colored, some yellowy like parm and some white like mozz..
Sigh-- it feel like I will never get good at this, but that's not going to stop me from trying;) ;)
I can get a picture if you want.
The parmesan recipe from this site says to stir for at least 5 minutes when adding rennet. If you are doing that, perhaps that is part of the problem.
Quote3. Dilute rennet in 1/2 cup cool water, then slowly trickle into the milk stirring constantly with a whisk. Stir for at least 5 minutes.
I have not had any matting issues. I stir a lot and have been using my arm (up to about 112F), so I can really feel with my hand and break any small mats that begin to form.
I generally only let them sit 5-10 minutes before draining and hooping, they begin matting then.
Of course, LB knows way more than me (obvious statement, anyone?).
Nitai, that's what I meant; I do it same way as you, or use a stirrer for large vats. If you look at the way it's made at the caseificos in Parma, the cheesemaker will stay there and stir and stir, all the while bringing up the heat rather quickly. And then at the end when the temps are reached, the curds will be at the bottom of the pot naturally. And it's so hot, and the pH so high, that they will mat. While the curds are settling, the cheesemaker and an assitant will get a huge piece of cloth and they will insert it at the bottom, and sort of lift the curd cake, and slide the cloth underneath. That curd cake is pretty solid by then at the bottom. Then when they lift it up, the mass of curds is rather solid. It's solid to the point that they take the curd ball and cut it into half or quarter or smaller, depending on the size of the vat. Then those hunks of curd are put into molds and pressed. The parm curd isn't in individual curds when it's pressed, at least not how I saw it done, it's more like very loosely held chunks that hold together but press and come apart easily.
So they shouldn't mat while heating, because if they mat, the curds will retain too much moisture. Stirring keeps them all separate, then when you stop at the end and prep the hoops, the curds settle naturally.
Got it. I have seen Gouda done similarly in some videos.
Yeah, it's how you avoid mechanical openings, settling/pressing under whey. Many Goudas are actually prepressed in a prepress -press as large slabs, and then those slabs are cut and put into Kadovas to get the final shape.
Wow, my recipe says to bring the temp up slowly, to 124.... grrr, ok more stirring for sure.
I have to stir and stir.
As I approach 124 deg F, if I stop for more than 30 sec, I will get a mat of curd,
Very good info-- Thanks bunches!
Quote from: Minamyna on July 08, 2010, 03:52:35 AM
Mine I pressed anyways and its like dual colored, some yellowy like parm and some white like mozz..
I can get a picture if you want.
Keep a nice slow stir going until you are ready to press. You don't want them to mat before they are sufficently cooked and the whey expelled. Parms often come out of the mold with a mottled white and yellow color at first. It will all turn an almost tranlucent yellow after a day or so. I would be more concerned if this didn't happen As I have never made a parm that did not look ths way for at least a few hours and I have made 100's of parms over the years.
Do you mean something like this?
I have to say getting mine to do a smooth surface is not a happening thing, they always have crooks and crannies.
I didn't use cheese cloth on this mold. I cut circle for the top and bottom only - so no wrinkles.
Is there something different about your mold that it doesn't need cheesecloth? Or is it a usual mold but you just don't use it for this particular cheese?
Susan
After pressing I remove the cheesecloth and return it to the hoop bare, then press for an hour or so. If I am doing a cheddar or salted curd type, I increase the pressing weight slightly. Pretty much removes all wrinkles.
Quote from: susanky on September 17, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
Is there something different about your mold that it doesn't need cheesecloth? Or is it a usual mold but you just don't use it for this particular cheese?
Susan
Nope just a tome/St Paulin mold from Dairy Connections. $30 I think. Flat top and bottom.
(http://www.dairyconnection.com/image/Products/65/photo?max=150)
Quote from: Minamyna on September 07, 2010, 05:57:26 PM
I have to say getting mine to do a smooth surface is not a happening thing, they always have crooks and crannies.
I just made my first Parm 2 nights ago and when I pulled it out of the brine it was full of mechanical openings. Is pressing under whey the overall solution for that issue? None of the recipes I used called for that.
This is like my 6th cheese ever made, but my first one using thermophilic cultures.
No it's not the overall solution but extra warmth during pressing seems to help - especial if it cool in your make room like mine is.
Wish I had read this post before making my Parmesan batch yesterday. I used the recipe from this site only I made a 3 gallon batch. I used skim milk, calcium chloride, thermophilic starter (from Leeners), Mild Calf Lipase (from Leeners), 3/4 tablet of Rennet (from Leeners). I obtained great curd formation and after cutting into 1/4" pieces I allowed them to heal and then raised the temp to 124 F. I followed the recipe almost completely and ended up with some nice small, firm, squeaky curds.
What I did not know was that I was supposed to allow the curd to form or mat for 5 - 10 minutes before removing them from the whey. Had I done that, maybe I would not have had my wheel of Parmesan fall apart on me when I attempted to turn it over in the brine. The cheese literally broke apart into small curd shaped pieces. The wheel also never floated in the brine.
So why in the initial recipe was nothing said about allowing the curd to form and mat before removing it from the brine. I can see where this would have allowed the cheese to come together better. I am terribly disappointed in the loss of a 3 gallon batch as well as the time and effort put into this batch yesterday.
I know now that I should have done more research on making this cheese and can only blame myself for the final outcome.
My next attempt I hope will be more productive.
Salute! :D
Not letting it mat was not your problem. If it was a good make, the curds would have aggressively bonded during pressing. Parm uses a thermophillic culture. With thermos, the pH curve usually accelerates well into pressing and the curds bond like crazy. That's why many people have problems with the cheesecloth sticking. So, the scant evidence suggests that the lactic acid production was below normal. That is, the acid never really kicked in to create aggressive curd binding.
There could be several causes, but I would suspect it began with your starter. It is possible that your generic "Thermophilic Starter" was not the right mix of bacteria. But my guess is that either the culture was old, not very active or you didn't use enough. Using a Primer/Mother Culture really helps resolve these kinds of variables. Even with a low activity starter, a Primer Culture creates a robust environment that guarantees a good start. Here is a link to how to do Primer Cultures.
Primer Culture Photo Essay (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,5165.msg38655.html#msg38655)
Everyone, correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought a wheel not floating in brine was an issue of the brine not being saturated enough. I could see if maybe there were a bunch of mechanical openings, both at the edge and inside, maybe it could sink like a ship. Is this enough to add to the cause of the cheese coming apart? Maybe the curd not matting and insufficient saturation of brine?
Brine was 1/2 gallon water (boiled) and 1/2 gallon of whey and 4 cups of non-iodized salt. My Brine pH was 4.7 - 4.8. I do believe it was sufficiently saturated.
Salute! :D
Whats the reasoning for having low fat milk for parm?
Is it just how its traditionally done or will using whole mix completly change the texture?
tradition certainly has a lot to do with it, but more than that a full fat cheese(one made with whole milk) will not grate like a "skimmed" milk prepared one will.