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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => EQUIPMENT - Making Cheese => Topic started by: clherestian on August 28, 2010, 08:25:50 PM

Title: New Extech 110
Post by: clherestian on August 28, 2010, 08:25:50 PM
My new Extech 110 arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. I tried it for the first time today. I believe it is not working correctly.

For starters, the temperature is displaying about 6 F lower than my other two thermometers. I know the other thermometers are accurate. So that means the adjustment to the ph for the temperature is incorrect.

Secondly, if I take a ph reading of milk, the ph display keeps going up for over a minute and a half. it might keep changing for longer than that, but I got tired of waiting.

Thirdly, the meter says my cheese became less acidic (higher ph) as the make progressed. After adding culture and ripening for 90 minutes, then adding rennet letting it set for 40 minutes, cutting  curds and healing for 15 minutes, it says the ph was .25 higher than when I started.

I am gong to try calling Extech and seeing if they will replace it.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: wharris on August 29, 2010, 12:41:03 AM
Seems like i've heard this more than once. 
All I can say is that I pretty happy with mine, but i am dissapointed in all the reports i keep hearing.
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to me, that one trusts in their gear.
I am on the verge of revoking my recommendation of this meter.

To their Extech's credit, Extech is really good about replacing bad gear.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: acstokes on August 29, 2010, 02:34:06 AM
I have an Extech and am pleased with it. Did you calibrate it using both a 7.0 buffer and a 4.0 buffer without turning the meter off between each buffer? When I first got mine I calibrated with both buffers, but I turned the meter off between each calibration and as a result my readings were inaccurate. If calibrated properly, the buffers used will show on the bottom left of the display screen.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: iratherfly on August 29, 2010, 04:56:23 AM
I hate using these things to begin with. By the time they figure out my curd's pH after all the time consuming calibration and expensive buffering action, I can just see the curd, smell it, touch it and know if it's good or not... I think that as long at this isn't a food lab and there is no such thing as an instant read pH meter I can't trust it. I have so far only lost cheese to these meters instead of trying to feel it and getting it perfect.

But if you must...
- Calibrate it to 4 and 7. Do not calibrate to 10
- Make sure your probe is clean stored in liquid (distilled water?)
- Calibrate the thermometer to an analog mercury thermometer. If you have auto-correction for temperature in your meter and your thermometer is out of whack than your pH readings will be too
- Make sure the device is on pH test mode and not testing something else such as mv or alkaline (which would give you reverse results than pH)

What cheese are you making? Can you do it without the meter? I olly use it to document what I do so I can track back errors. I never change my cheesemaking based on it.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: clherestian on August 29, 2010, 11:56:50 AM
Well, everything seems to have corrected itself except for the temperature reading. I guess the meter just needed to "warm up."

About the temp, there is no way to calibrate it.

I do have one question for everybody. Is it a big deal if the temp is off by 5F or so?

Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: wharris on August 29, 2010, 03:47:06 PM
How do you know your other tempertures are correct?  How are your other thermometers calibrated?

If you are absolutely sure that your pH meter is registering the wrong temperature, then I would return the meter for one that is correct.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on August 29, 2010, 06:25:01 PM
Because it has been sitting in a box on a shelf somewhere for who knows how long, I find that a new probe does better if you soak it in pH 4.0 solution for 24 hours before calibrating. Then always be sure you store the probe with pH 4.0 in the storage cap. NEVER let the probe dry out. Totally unnecessary, but if you want a REALLY good calibration the solutions should be heated to about 90F to approximate the range for starter temperatures.

A temperature difference of 5 degrees will have little effect on pH compensation.

I disagree with Iratherfly. I calibrate to 7 then 4 then 10. A 3 point triangulated calibration is always more accurate than just 2 points. I never make cheese without a pH meter. To me it's just added security to keep from really messing up a good cheese. This is especially true when experimenting with new cultures or combinations.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: acstokes on August 29, 2010, 06:59:31 PM
QuoteBecause it has been sitting in a box on a shelf somewhere for who knows how long, I find that a new probe does better if you soak it in pH 4.0 solution for 24 hours before calibrating. Then always be sure you store the probe with pH 4.0 in the storage cap. NEVER let the probe dry out. Totally unnecessary, but if you want a REALLY good calibration the solutions should be heated to about 90F to approximate the range for starter temperatures.

A temperature difference of 5 degrees will have little effect on pH compensation.

I disagree with Iratherfly. I calibrate to 7 then 4 then 10. A 3 point triangulated calibration is always more accurate than just 2 points. I never make cheese without a pH meter. To me it's just added security to keep from really messing up a good cheese. This is especially true when experimenting with new cultures or combinations.
I agree with all the above.



Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: iratherfly on August 29, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
If your temp is off, your buffer reading during calibration will be off.

As for Wayne's question - how do you know it's off. As I mentioned, you will need to calibrate according to an old school mercury thermometer. These are always perfectly accurate. It actually says so on my Extech 407227 manual
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: woodsman on August 29, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
It still make sense to check the accuracy of your mercury thermometer - not every one of them is a lab calibrated item.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: clherestian on August 30, 2010, 12:47:49 AM
I guess I'm not 100% positive the other thermometers are correct. But I did calibrate the digital one in both boiling water and ice water. The other thermometer always reads exactly the same as that one.

I will take sailor's advice and soak the probe for 24 hours.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: acstokes on August 30, 2010, 01:26:04 AM
QuoteI guess I'm not 100% positive the other thermometers are correct. But I did calibrate the digital one in both boiling water and ice water.

I also like to check my thermometers against a fever thermometer since they are normally very accurate and operate within a narrow range.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on August 30, 2010, 04:17:41 AM
At pH 7.0, the isothermal point, there is NO theoretical temperature compensation. A calibrated meter will read the same pH 7.0 at 2 degrees or 200 degrees. That's why you always calibrate to a pH 7.0 solution first. That's your baseline. The farther you get from pH 7.0 then the greater the error and the need for compensation. However, within the ranges that we test for temperature compensation is negligible and meaningless for most people. Even at pH 5.0 you are only talking about a potential error of just .06. Most consumer meters are just not capable of compensating closer than .01-.02 so it is not necessary for the meter to be deadly accurate on the temperature reading. So if the meter knows that the pH is within a statistically acceptable range, there is no need for any temperature compensation.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: clherestian on August 30, 2010, 10:47:22 AM
Sailor, thanks for that piece of info. Very helpful.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: KosherBaker on August 30, 2010, 08:49:58 PM
Not sure if this will be helpful or not but here's place with better prices on the PH110 and the accessories along with free shipping (on orders over $85). They are also offering coupons to take the prices further down.
Here's the link to the products:
http://thehumansolution.ecomm-search.com/search?vwcatalog=thehumansolution&query=ph&x=0&y=0 (http://thehumansolution.ecomm-search.com/search?vwcatalog=thehumansolution&query=ph&x=0&y=0)
Link to the coupons:
http://www.thehumansolution.com/spofandco.html (http://www.thehumansolution.com/spofandco.html)

Has anyone ordered from these guys before?
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: clherestian on October 01, 2010, 05:59:30 PM
I wanted to give an update on my troubles with the Extech ph110. I called Extech and talked with their tech support. In the end, they sent me a new meter, and the new one seems to work perfectly.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: soleuy on November 23, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
Hello everybody!!!! and first of all excuses for my English; I´m Argentine living in Uruguay and even though Ihave studied English at school that was long time ago.
I´m new in cheese making, I began doing them this year:initially because we have two cows and it was too much milk. Then I´have noticed I like it: half way between cooking and laboratory ( I'm a biologist but I'm not being working in my profession since 1998). I´have done an on-line course and  with the help of a little book, and an Italian forum ( i lived almost two years there so I understand and  I try writing like I´m doing now,most of the time in a sort of funny way and with  a lot of work).
I´m in a hurry now so I go to the point I need some help. I want to buy a pH metre, I bought one in the past it was a very cheap one and didn't work well.
Phmeter  for cheese making are very expensive here 300- 600 usd I cant afford that . But  my sister is travelling to USA in December and she will stay in New York and Boston for almost two weeks and perhaps she can buy me one there.I read a lot of people uses a
Extech PH110 Exstik Waterproof / Refillable pH Meter (PH-110, PH110)

This has a refillable ph electrode, I want to know haw frequently is it necessary to refile it. Perhaps it won´t to be easy to me to get the solution or maybe yes it´s only a Cl K solution?. And what about the electrode do you recommend me to buy an spare electrode (ph115) and t the removal tools and junctions (PH13).
It says it works for solids too it`s true?

Thanks for all  Saludos desde el sur Soledad
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: linuxboy on November 23, 2010, 02:50:05 PM
Yes, the solution is just saturated KCl, about 3.5 M. You can make it yourself.

You need to refill it whenever the solution fouls up, which does not happen very often, perhaps once a year with frequent use.

Yes, it is a good idea to buy a spare electrode. As for the junctions, it's up to you. I find with dairy, it is not the electrode itself that becomes clogged, but the junctions. The electrode you can clean from protein and biofilm by soaking it in pepsin or rennin, and by soaking in a HCl solution. But when the reference junctions are fouled up, it is not easy to fix them. The two types of electrodes I use have either special teflon or extended life ceramic junctions, and they hold up very well. Not sure what the Extech junctions are made of.

And don't forget to buy reference solution, or make it yourself.
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: soleuy on November 23, 2010, 03:48:34 PM
Thanks for your complete answer. I wrote to Amazon and The Human Solution, now  I must see if it is possible to coordinate the delivery, because it would be to a transitory residence of people that will be lots of time outside.  I hope finally I can get the pH meter!!!

And I wish in the future I can write about cheeses. I made Mozarrella, Caciocavallo , Tomme, Petit Suisse but I´m still learning. Also   I tried doing another cheeses like Taleggio and Crescenza but I´m not happy with the results.

Saludos Soledad
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: Boofer on November 23, 2010, 07:10:16 PM
Quote from: soleuy on November 23, 2010, 03:48:34 PM
And I wish in the future I can write about cheeses. I made Mozarrella, Caciocavallo , Tomme, Petit Suisse but I´m still learning. Also   I tried doing another cheeses like Taleggio and Crescenza but I´m not happy with the results.

Saludos Soledad
soleuy,

I find your English to be very good. Not a problem, but a pleasure to read. I am using the Extech pH100. I decided to go with it because it is not fillable. My reasoning was that I will not be using it constantly and it works quite well for my purposes.

If you have any photos, they are most welcome and help us to envision your cheeses. Looking forward to hearing and seeing your progress.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: New Extech 110
Post by: soleuy on November 23, 2010, 07:59:04 PM
Boofer,

Thanks for your advice. I have some photos, but my cheeses are not very beautiful yet. I add next week, I´m a little busy because I have guests from Argentina for three days .
I´ll be in touch, and if I do big mistakes with the English tell me, especially if the writing has no sense.
Hasta pronto, Soledad

I add one photo to prove if I can do it !!!and to show the uruguayan landscape with  the "mate" next to the cheeses. Well I can´t preview so I don´t really know if the photo was attached, I will post it . Sorry if it isn´t there