I made a blue using Fankhauser's recipe. This cheese is 40 days old today. I have kept it in my cave at between 50 and 55F at average 80% humidity. I have other cheese's in the cave so i have had this one segregated in a plastic container with a bit of water in the bottom and the cheese on ring above the water.
This week, it has developed these little white spots of something. Is this a problem? Should I vac seal this now? If so, do I brush off all the blue and other stuff on the outside or what?
Looks like p.candidum from here.
Debi, I thought that too but I have never had or used any p.candidum. My cave however, is a refrigerator I use to use to store spawn and mushroom cultures. The white stuff looks a bit like mycelium. From my experience with mycelium from the mushrooms, I have never seen it take over something else. It normally was just the opposite in that other things took it over very easily. I guess im just going to have to let it grow and see what happens.
I often get white molds on my blues. I usually just wipe the cheeses down with my hand to knock back the mold growth. The blue usually outcompetes the white.
I used to make Gorgonzola from time to time (until I found out it was the cause of a very ichy rash that only popped up when I made blue cheese or got splashed by brines while washing away green mold) and as I recall it often had a bit of white mold pop out that would wipe off easily. I wouldn't worry.
Thread necromancy! This was the closest thing I could find to my current concern, so abracadabra here we are. As I have mentioned elsewhere I've begun a maiden blue cheese effort based on LB's Stilton-style recipe. Held at room temp for 4 days in molds, then into their own aging box with some cups of water. All has been seeming very positive, and there was an early bluegreen bloom, especially on the tops and bottoms. But now, after a week in the box at about 53 and high RH, I am having much more white mold growth. To wit:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5268/5624436955_939bab0dea_z.jpg)
The tops and bottoms still have some visible blue-green mold, but it is heavily overlaid with powdery white.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5624436949_eaec3dd1d0_z.jpg)
But the sides of the cheeses are mostly white. There was a little blue at first but now there is primarily fluffy white mold and also still some bald spots of naked cheese surface.
So . . . my question is how to proceed from here. I was on schedule to pierce these, but want to be sure I am encouraging the P. Roqueforti. My thoughts on options include:
(a) Just forge ahead and pierce it, trusting that the PR inoculated in the milk will bloom and take over on the inside and the surface white will die back and become a "biocrust" (I love that LB neologism).
(b) Wipe off especially the fluffy white mold from the sides and give it some time to see if more blue will grow on the surface before piercing.
(c) In addition to wiping the surface, make up a 3% brine with more PR in it and spray the surface of the cheese, say daily, in order to encourage the blue to dominate.
Would be very interested in the feedback of the cheesoscenti here! Thanks.
The blue mold slowed down and probably died off early because of poor air circulation. Blues need lots of oxygen and do poorly in closed rippening containers. They also give off ammonia which definitely exacerbates problems with poor air flow.
So how would you advice to counter this without turning everything in the fridge blue?
Im venting the box twice a day, just because I like sniffing it. :)
That's a Catch 22. Closing the box completely shuts off air flow and venting twice a day probably isn't enough. So you need to leave the lid cracked and you may have to wipe down your other cheeses more often. Long term it's best to have a dedicated space for blues and other "moldy" cheeses.
Thanks for the feedback. I have been trying to take these out twice daily for a half hour or more, but I see your note that this is not sufficient. I'm not sure how much cracking open the lid of the box to give it access to the small amount of air in my small mini-fridge is going to improve air exchange, but I can give it a shot, and also try to air it out in the open more often and longer.
I am assuming also that the PR inoculated in the curd itself is still available to make blue mold if I pierce this though, right? So I am still curious about recommendations regarding the surface. The white mold seems fairly innocuous but I am considering wiping it off, and still thinking about making a spray brine of P. Roqueforti, which it would seem could only help the blue re-take the surface?
I just let the "blues" out of their container at least once per week--take off the lid off and let them breathe at room temp. It does allow the oxygen in, and lets the blue develop.
The problem isn't just oxygen, it's ammonia buildup. You want to be sure you are getting ample circulation or you will stifle your piercings as well. OTOH - Do whatever Brie is doing. Works for her. ;)
Thanks, Sailor--I have to defer to you, though as the kind of blues. Brand--the white mold is but one of many that will occur on a stilton--enjoy and watch as the different colors meld into a beautiful rind. My first stiltons ended up with a white mold beneath the rind; which turned out to be one of the creamiest cheeses I have made--not a true stilton, but wonderful just the same. The blues are very forgiving if you give them the air and space that they need.
Interesting . . . . well, I have been trying to take these out more regularly and for longer, but weekday work scheduling, etc. will probably mean that I max out at having them out of the 'cave' fridge maybe 2x/day for an hour each time. And now I have the 'blue box' open with the lid askew within the fridge. While the white is still dominant, I can also see some (slower) spread of blue on the surface. And there has definitely been perceptible ammonia sometimes upon opening. I do worry about possible issues with putting the cheeses through such temp/humidity changes so often, and whether there might be risk of cracking or other problems . . .
So, pressing ahead on the 'Brie Method' (the user not the cheese!) I suppose what I will do is just go ahead and pierce this shortly, even if the exterior remains mostly white. And I won't plan to do anything such as spray with PR brine to encourage the blue mold. I've done some spelunking in the old threads of the blue forum, and I have not seen any evidence of anyone doing such a thing, anyhow.
So, I went ahead and pierced these last night at 16 days in total. There is a bit more of a mix of mold on the exterior, but white is still dominant, with blue over maybe ~25% of the surface and some tiny bits of other colors here and there too.
I used bamboo skewers boiled in water and pierced each 2 lb cheese about 20-30 times all the way through, blunt end first, rinsing in the warm water between uses. For one, I used a thicker skewer (on the fat side of 1/8", maybe almost as much as 3/16") and fewer holes and a skinnier for the other (shy of 1/8") with proportionally more penetrations. We'll see how it goes.
I tasted some of the paste that was pushed out in the process and - wow! - it was intensely creamy, absolutely melt-in-your mouth. I guess I had anticipated something in that direction based on the (proteolytic? Is that right?) effect of the white mold but, boy . . . very interesting. Mild blue flavor as well.
I have some pics that I will try to get up to flesh this out. Enjoying the experiment . . .
Quote from: Brandnetel on April 18, 2011, 11:41:58 AM
Interesting . . . . well, I have been trying to take these out more regularly and for longer, but weekday work scheduling, etc. will probably mean that I max out at having them out of the 'cave' fridge maybe 2x/day for an hour each time. And now I have the 'blue box' open with the lid askew within the fridge. While the white is still dominant, I can also see some (slower) spread of blue on the surface. And there has definitely been perceptible ammonia sometimes upon opening. I do worry about possible issues with putting the cheeses through such temp/humidity changes so often, and whether there might be risk of cracking or other problems . . .
So, pressing ahead on the 'Brie Method' (the user not the cheese!) I suppose what I will do is just go ahead and pierce this shortly, even if the exterior remains mostly white. And I won't plan to do anything such as spray with PR brine to encourage the blue mold. I've done some spelunking in the old threads of the blue forum, and I have not seen any evidence of anyone doing such a thing, anyhow.
Brand, you really don't need to take the blues out twice per day to breathe--once or twice a week is fine.
How much covering should the cheese have before piercing? (Anyone have a pre piecing pic?)
I god good blue formation and hardening on the sides but the top\bottom just partially and its still soft. Its been 10 days since demolding.
Hi folks -
Any update at just under a month in on my Stilton-esque effort. There is still not too much blue growth evident - the patches here and there from the earlier photos have expanded and deepened a bit, but white is still the most evident. And there are still a bunch of 'bald spots', plus which the punctures themselves have not developed much apparent mold.
So, I thought I would hedge my bets and made up a 3-4% brine solution and mixed a bunch of P. Roqueforti powder into it, and began lightly misting the cheeses with that today. My plan is to take them out 1x per day for their usual 'breather' and mist them at the beginning of the hour or so that they spend with the top off the box so that there is less actual water on them when they go back in (per the 'blue mold doesn't like to get its feet wet' theory). I guess I will plan to do this daily for a month or at least until there is a more visible blue bloom.
Would be interested to hear if anyone thinks this is a good/terrible idea. Did not see any evidence here of others trying it in the past?
I think you should just give it time and open the box as much as you can to get oxygen in\amonia out.
The mold is not dead so theres no reason to reinoculate.
At what temp are you keeping it? perhaps rising the temp slightly will get things going faster.
Yeah, Tomer, I hear you. It's just that I'm seeing so little blue at 30 days it is making me nervous. The cheese seems to be drying out a bit with little cracks appearing in the surface on either end, which I think may be due to the time I am having it spend at room temp and RH when I take it out and open it each day for an hour or so.
So I figured that misting the surface couldn't hurt, and if I waste a little PR, no biggie. I really thought I would see a bloom of blue filling in the holes I made but after 2 weeks I can still see clear through them and don't see much other than a bit of wispy white on the exposed surfaces inside.
If my thermometer is accurate, the fridge has been between 51 and 54 this whole time. It was a little lower earlier and now I am trying to keep it in the 53-54 range mostly.
"I really thought I would see a bloom of blue filling in the holes"
I dont think its an indication to internal veining, you should use a cheese tool or apple corer and pull out a piece to examine the core and just return the paste in to fill the whole.
Not all stilton's have the whole "spider web" at 90 days thats why some are left to age further. patience is a bitch :P
There should be evident blue mold growth at this point--can you post a pic so we can evaluate?