I need some help. I've had a question on my mind since I started making cheese again. PH, in wine making you take a reading at different stages and adjust by either adding one thing or the other to raise or lower PH depending on your reading. So i've emailed some experts and all I got was generic answers.
All my reciepes are from books and nothing mentions when to take PH readings and what to do? If any of you can help I don't need pages of instruction, just something like, take PH reading here if it's this then do this.
Do you ever adjust the PH with acid or bases? or do you just go onto the next task either quicker or slower?
Good morning Cartierusm, I have to admit that I don't fully understand what the different ph levels in cheese making mean, other than understanding the ripening of cultures and bacteria's that produce the final flavours.
Ph in raw milk can be an indicator of how fresh the milk is and whether spoilage bacteria have taken too much of a hold which show up as a higher acidic level. I know in mead making ph is important for healthy yeast, too low and they starve, so maybe it is a similar process for bacteria surviving, thus the differing final flavour? Which ones are starved out and which ones are fed, and at what stage in their growth they are halted?
Most of my cheese recipes have a recommended ph level given for curd cutting, when curds have been turned for a certain time, washing curds etc. But they do state that these are only indicative and may vary.
Michael was discussing the importance of taking ph levels as opposed to "understanding and knowing" the look and feel of the curd. I know when I make mozz, I am more interested in how the curd behaves over the ph level, where as other recipes advise for you to wait until the cheese reaches a certain ph level before proceeding to the next step.
Some of the recipes that I have posted I have included the ph levels and some I didn't bother to add them, and I think that Cheese Head has included ph levels in the recipes that he posted.
Not sure that all this will have help you or not.
I've got the book Artisan Farmstead Cheese and it talks extensively about PH. It pretty says it's just an indicator at different stages and you should take and keep the readings. The problem is it makes no sense whatsoever, in wine making you take readings and adjust by adding a base or an acid. This tells you, "after some experience you'll be able to tell by the PH what will probably turn out to be a good cheese" or some BS like that. Well if you can't help what the ph does who cares about taking it? I still have to read the section on actual cheese making and see if during a recipe it says anything else.
As a start it says to take a measurement when you first start, before heating, take a reading when you add your starter or if using direct set then measure when you cut for the first time, take a reading before draining and a reading from the pressed whey.
There are some recipies (http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_cheddar.shtml) out there that use pH as a marker, like time or temp, to move from one phase to another.
I need to study harder to understand what it is i want to achieve with my cheese chemically. For now, I will plead ignorance and merely use pH readings as way to make a augment my operational consistancy.
Wayne that's pretty much what my books says, so you're right on. As everyone should do until we figure this out is to just keep notes on each batch and the PH at the different stages I mentioned above. That way the experience is still there when we find out what corrective mesaures to take.
Maybe with cheese the only two factors we have that influence ph is time and heat? Which is where the experience comes into it? Because my book also says that ph is important especially if you are wanting to go commercial and make a consistant quality of cheese, but then also doesn't explain the why and where for's either.
Frustrating >:(
What book are you using, Tea?
Hello,
I'm a professional 2nd generation cheesemaker from Ireland. This is my first post. I don't have a degree in chemistry.
PH . . . well . . . its hard to know exactly where to start. PH is often confused with acidity. A little known fact is that PH stands for 'Power of Hydrogen'. The number of Hydrogen molecules per atom or somesuch.
I guess your not too interested in that end of it though. Your more interested in how and when it applies to you in your cheese making process. There are a number of crucial moments, the first 24 hours after the birth of the cheese. Maybe more but these are key factors I'm aware of colleagues using.
These are when cutting the curd & when brining.
1-When cutting the curd, say an hour after after renneting, some makers will take a pH and then add water to bring it down to the desired level, or leave it to acidify more before draining the curds.
2-When salting/brining, the cheese should be salted at an optimal pH, I think its 5.5 but ain't sure, if you are using a brine it should be of the same pH.
I don't use a pH meter when brining. I know that the cheese will be ready for salting 24hrs after moulding. I know my brine will be at the same pH because I add whey from that making, which is also 24hours old. I don't pH the curds as I feel altering the curd at this point destroys the natural variation in the milk, I like my cheese to reflect the season its made in etc.
I think if you inoculate the cheese the pH would be pretty important.
On your earlier note about having a cellar in which you ripened a range of cheeses, brave. I know people do, I even know makers, distributors & retailers who do. Its not uncommon for one mould to dominate.
Finally, why are you waxing your Cheddar why not have a natural rind. I make a washed rind semi soft cows milk cheese. I'm a rind man. If your waxing humidity doesn't play as big a role. As for controlling the humidity in a fridge, that's a tough one. Cooling reduces humidity, temperature would be a fundamental for me when controlling moisture.
Best of luck with your projects,
Quin
Welcome Quin to the forums, and I think we are going to be picking your brains quite a bit. Thankyou for the information too. We were wondering what the ph factor plays in a cheese. Does is affect the curd and maturing factor, for does it effect the final flavour? Some cheese seem to require a certain ph level to be achieved before proceeding to the next step, and others it is not so critical? We are a little confused as to the role that it plays in the overall cheese making process.
Cartierusm the cheese book and I have is "Home Cheesemaking" by Neil and Carole Willman.
SWEEET we have a pro in out midst...Picking brains good..(said like a zombie).
Thank you for your warm welcome, much appreciated.
So yes pH does play a crucial role in the development of flavour in your cheese. During salting it affects salt absorbsion, if the cheese doesn't reach the right pH before salting its fermentation process won't be the same.
If the curd is a different pH at moulding the cheese will ripen differently, these are variations you can change or just roll with. Why not role with them.
If your making a hard cheese cured for 6months or more then its vital that you keep tabs on your pH, if your making a semi soft then it will change your cheese radically, but how bad. I like the natural variations.
Temperature, humidity and pH all play roles in how your cheese tastes in the end. However there are thousands of other factors that do too.
I know cheese makers that will only make when the moon is in a favorable part of the cycle, I know makers who only make when the animals are grazing, who only make from selected animals milk, who only make with milk of a certain age, at certain times of the year. I know cheese makers who have nervous breakdowns trying to take into account every variable. There are allot.
Though it has to be said that pH, time, temperature and humidity each play a fundamental role..
Quinlan, great to have you here, and thanks for your ideas and information, very good for novices like me.
I've just been reading an ole book. Cheese and fermented milk foods by Frank Kosikowski (if your quick i think you might be able to find a few 2nd hand copies via google, amazon have two for sale at just $250). A must read if you can find it. It was a book my mother dug deep into when first exploring the world of cheese making (Over 3 decades ago).
Earlier I referred to the pH at brining as being 5.5 I'm sorry I was wrong it was never above 5.2. Secondly I referred to the pH at the time of cutting of the curd, it would ideally be 4.6 (This does vary depending on which type of cheese your making). Now here is the smart part. The reason most don't use pH meters. Please keep in mind the book from which I quote was published in 1970.
"The conventional, indicating type pH meter is of value in checking milk quality but its use has been restricted. For example, only recently has the cottage cheese industry become aware of pH meters as process control instruments.
Various reasons are given for this limited application. The conventional pH meter often is considered too expensive, electrodes are easily broken and awkward to handle, and considerable manipulation and rinsing are required between samples. A more universally expressed reason is that with untrained personnel the machine soon functions improperly. Results become inaccurate, and , even when accurate, their proper interpretation is difficult."
Now here is the thing, I made cheese today, with a little under 500 litres of milk(no phs taken), for the last time this year. I'm a little sad and a little happy. I haven't had a day off since the 26th of January, so its good the cows are dry, its good I'm taking a break. Another part of me is devastated, no milk until the end of January, all my cheese will be eaten within a month or so.
All I can do in the mean time is make plans to be making even better cheese next year. My wife is a vet, so for Christmas this year along which a book about the president elect and some jewelery I'm going to get her a pH meter. After all its the least I can do considering she gave birth to the most handsome little boy six months ago (who by the way has been constantly been making a soft cheese on his bib since ;-)
Finally Cartierusm, Tea & Cheese Head thank you for your positive posts. I really appreciate those.
Best of luck to each of you in your cheese making endeavours,
Q
No problem Quinlan. What's the name of your cheese company and where are you located?
Milleens Cheese,
http://www.milleenscheese.com (http://www.milleenscheese.com)
Located on the Steele family farm, on the Beara Peninsula in lovely west Cork, Ireland, Europe.
Hi guys,
There is no doubt that proper PH is critical to making great cheese. Hitting the marks every step of the way will not only result in a superior final product but will also make it possible to obtain the same product each time you make a certain recipe.
Having said that, I will now say this.....
I have chosen not to use a PH meter up to this point in my cheesemaking.
I have made this choice for a couple of different reasons.
1. I feel that fantastic cheese has been made for centuries without the aid of a PH device. I honestly want to learn to produce great cheese by feel and sight since this is the way it has been done since the beginning.
2. Although I can't say that I am an expert in cheesemaking I do consistenly produce a good and satisfying product. Since I have not used a PH meter I've learned to trust my knowledge of the curd at any given point in the process.
The key to making good cheese without a meter is simply tons of practice.
After making enough of a certain variety you will get a "feel" for how the curd should look and feel (both in the hand and in the mouth). This is my experience anyhow.
One of my favorite cheeses to make is swiss. This is one of the more difficult cheeses to make and I have to admit that I've never made one that is really up to my expectations.
Having said that, I will say that I am getting closer with each batch I make. I am getting a feel for this curd that tells me when I have a curd that will be nice and elastic after pressing and stand up to the brining and salt wiping phases of the process.
My last two came out of the brine perfectly although I am still having problems with seeing it form large eyes during the sweating stage. Regardless of my problems, I am having a blast experimenting with this cheese and am confident that I will eventually succeed.
I'm sure that I will eventually buy a PH meter so that I can produce an even better product.
As for now, I am having fun with this hobby and seeing what I can accomplish using the time tested techniques.
Just my humble opinion....
Dave
Sweet, thanks for the info and Welcome.
Thanks for the welcome. I'm just thrilled that I've found this forum and have access to others who share such a wonderful hobby.
It's tough describing to non-cheese makers what a thrill it is to see a cheese turn out. It's also a blast trying to perfect this craft.
I've been at it three years now and I still get just as much enjoyment out of a successful make as I did the first time. That's pretty amazing in and of itself.
Thanks again for the welcome.
Dave
Likesspace, agree, it's kind of an infectious hobby, and quite an art taking "simple" milk and transforming it into all kinds of different cheeses!
Quinlan thanks for those links, I enjoyed reading your story. I hope you have continued success with your cheese making.
Hope you can find the time to imput every now and then.
Today I started with pastuerized and homogonized milk as I'm making a test batch to test all my newly made equipment. I started with just good store milk and the PH was 6.8. At time of adding rennet it was 6.7, after cutting the cubes it was 6.6. This is no where near what you said Quinlan of 4.6 at time of cutting the curd. I was making cheddar by the way. Should I be concerned? I also noticed the recipe I am making calls for 45 minutes of ripening with either starter or Direct Set and most recipes I've come across say 1 hour. I also know that when using direct set it can take 1/2 hour before it even starts working effectively. One source on the web Peter Dixon says 1 hour for a starter and 1 1/2 hours for direct set. I think I'll do that next time. Any suggestions?
I wonder whether the pH difference is due to the source of milk, I'm using raw fresh milk, maybe two or three days old at the most. I collect it from my farmer supplier. I'm guessing that there would be a huge difference between that and allready past. hom. shop milk.
I haven't got a pH meter yet, when I do I can give you more accurate figures. Though I'm confident the ones I quoted earlier were accurate.
I add the starter and then one hour later add the rennet then one hour later cut the curd. However I'm making with over 1000 litres of milk at a time. If I was making with half that I'd leave it only half the time, though I know that scale isn't accurate if your dropping much lower than 500litre's.
Just had a look through some of my recent cheese makings and I'm measuring "fresh" store bought past hom whole milk at 6.3 and at time of cutting the curd I'm just under 6. Cartier and my gauges may be calibrated a little differently accounting for our different readings but we are getting a similar drop and nothing like 4 range.
When I went to drain the curds it says it's 5.8. I'm not too worried. Since I make wine my PH meter is high end and I calibrate it every month with calibration solution. Anyway, I'll see how it goes. I think next time I'll go for 1 1/2 hours.
Quinlan, are you using a mother culture or a Direct Set? Thanks.
Quinlan, does using a PH meter work just as well as doing a titrateable acid test? I have both, for wine making, but doing to titrateable acid is a PITA. My readings are not changing much. For cheddar it went from Store Bought Milk of 6.8 PH to 5.8 PH. For my Parmesan it went from 6.8 to 6.6, but Parmesan doesn't develop that much acid anyway, you only let it ripen 30 minutes.
Wayne, do you have any readings of your old milk and your new farm fresh milk PH readings? PH reading before starting that is?
My pH readings for fresh milk are in 6.1 - 6.3 range.
my question is how do i check the pH (or acid level) of my curds or cheese?
From what I've read in my books you take the PH of the whey, the only time I can't take a reading is on the last 2 pressings, but at that point it doesn't matter.
Some recipes call for the measurement of acidity. Many times this is in the form of pH. Sometimes % acidity, sometimes degrees of acidity.
"When the whey is pH 5.3-5.4 (acidity of 55-75 degrees), mill the slabs of curd into pieces 1 inch x 2 inches.": The Peter Dixon Cheddar recipe (http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_cheddar.shtml)
I had to look up what "Degrees of Acidity" was. Here is the scoop. Basically it is a measurement of acidity of the milk. (not the pH - slight difference). Most acid tests today use a titration kit to measure titratable acid (TA) as a percentage of the original volume of liquid. The degrees of acidity is different measurement scale of the same thing.
The degree Dornic is a measuring unit of acidity of milk. 1°D corresponds to 0,1g of lactic acid per liter of milk. Naturally the Lactose contained in milk is degraded gradually in Lactic acid by the Bactérie S. (http://www.speedylook.com/Dornic_degree.html)
and
Some books may refer to Dornic acid degrees ... This is simply done by moving your column reading one place to the right ... i.e. graduation is 1.6 = 16 Dornic degrees. (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/70.html)
I would refer to the links for more information.
Hi guys...
Well I finally broke down and ordered a PH meter. I bought the Hannah model that Wayne suggested....
Anway, now that I have this thing on the way I realized that I have no idea what to do with it so I posted a message on the other board and here's the information I received back.
NOW...
If anyone can tell me what all of this means I will be well on my way to making better cheese.
Here's the post:
Concepts of Acidity and pH
All aqueous systems (including the water in you and in cheese) obey the following relationship (Equation 3) between the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) and hydroxyl ions (OH-). Note, the square brackets indicate concentration in moles per litre. A mole is 6 x 1023 molecules, that is, the numeral six with 23 zeros after it.
[H+] x [OH-] = 10-14
Because the actual concentrations in moles per litre are small, it is customary to express the values as exponents. For example, if we know that the concentration of hydrogen ions [H+] in a sample of milk is 0.000001 moles/l which is equivalent to 10-6 moles/l, we can calculate the concentration of hydroxyl ions as 10-14/10-6 = 10-8 moles/l which is the same as 0.00000001 moles/l.
* If [H+] = [OH-] the solution is neutral with respect to acidity.
* If [H+] > [OH-] the solution is acidic.
* If [H+] < [OH-] the solution is basic or alkaline.
* Chemicals which contribute H+ or absorb OH- are acids, while bases contribute OH- or absorb H+.
The concept of pH evolved as a short hand method to express acidity. We have already seen that a hydrogen ion concentration of 0.000001 moles/l can be expressed as [10-6], an expression which defines both the unit of measurement and the numerical value. The concept of pH is a further abbreviation which expresses the concentration of hydrogen ions as the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration in units of moles/l. This sounds complex but is quite easy to apply. For example, the log10 of hydrogen ion concentration of [10-6] is equal to -6. The final step is to take the negative of the log, that is -1 x -6 which is 6. So, 0.0000001 moles/l = [10-6] = pH 6. From the relationship expressed in Equation 3, if the concentration of one of OH- and H+ is known, it is always possible to calculate the concentration of the other. So, if the pH of a solution is 6, the pOH is 14 - 6 = 8. Because this relationship is understood, the convention is to only report pH. Note, that because the negative sign was dropped by convention, decreasing pH values mean increasing acidity, that is, increasing concentration of H+ ions. So, although both TA and pH are measures of acidity, pH decreases with increasing acidity.
All of this can be summarized by a description of the pH scale. The pH scale for most practical purposes is from 1 to 14, although a pH of less than one is theoretically and practically possible.
pH 7.0 is neutral acidity [H+] = [OH-]
pH < 7.0 = acid condition [H+] > [OH-]
pH > 7.0 = alkaline condition [H+] < [OH-]
pH Versus Titratable Acidity
TA and pH are both measures of acidity but, for most purposes, pH is a better process control tool, because the pH probe measures only those H+ which are free in solution and undissociated with salts or proteins. This is important because it is free H+ which modifies protein functionality and contributes sour taste. It is also the pH rather than titratable acidity which is the best indicator of the preservation and safety effects of acidity. It must be emphasized, that the most important factor available to the cheese maker to control spoilage and pathogenic organisms is pH control. The pH history during and after cheese manufacture is the most important trouble shooting information. Cheese moisture, mineral content, texture and flavour are all influenced directly by the activity of free hydrogen ions (i.e. pH).
Titratable acidity (TA) measures all titratable H+ ions up to the phenolphthalein end point (pH 8.5) and, therefore, varies with changes in milk composition and properties. During cheese manufacture, the pH gives a true indication of acid development during the entire process so that the optimum pH at each step is independent of other variables such as milk protein content. However, the optimum TA at each step in cheese making will vary with initial milk composition and the type of standardization procedure used.
A good practical illustration of the difference between TA and pH is the effect of cutting. Up to the time of cutting, TA of the milk increases with the development of acidity by the culture. After cutting the TA of the whey is much lower. This does not mean that acid development stopped. It simply means that titratable H+ ions associated with the milk proteins are no longer present in the whey. This leads to the concept of buffer capacity, which is an important principle in cheese making. The effect of protein removal on the TA of whey, is related to the ability of protein to 'buffer' the milk against changes in pH. That same buffer property is the reason it helps to take acidic medication, like aspirin, with milk.
Buffer capacity can be described as the ability of an aqueous system, such as milk, to resist changes in pH with addition of acids (added H+) or bases (added OH-). Specifically, buffer capacity is the amount of acid or base required to induce a unit change in pH. For example, a small addition of acid to distilled water will cause a large reduction in pH. The same amount of acid would have a small effect on the pH of milk because milk proteins and salts neutralize the acidity.
The two most important buffer components of milk are caseins (buffer maximum near pH 4.6) and phosphate (buffer maxima near pH 7.0). The buffer maximum near pH 5.0 is extremely important to cheese manufacture because the optimum pH for most cheese is in the range of 5.0 - 5.2. As the pH of cheese is reduced towards pH 5.0 by lactic acid fermentation, the buffer capacity is increasing (i.e., each incremental decrease in pH requires more lactic acid). The effect is to give the cheese maker considerable room for variation in the rate and amount of acid production. Without milk's built in buffers it would be impossible to produce cheese in the optimum pH range.
Another way to illustrate the difference between TA and pH is to consider typical ranges of pH and TA for normal milk. TA is a measure of the total buffer capacity of milk for the pH range between the pH of milk and the phenolphthalein end point (about pH 8.3). The pH of milk at 25C, normally varies within a relatively narrow range of 6.5 to 6.7. The normal range for titratable acidity of herd milks is 0.12 to 0.18% lactic acid In other words, pH is a good indicator of initial milk quality, while the traditional measurement of TA to indicate bacterial growth in milk is less precise.
pH Measurement
The pH of cheese milk, whey and soft cheese can be measured directly. Firm and hard cheese must be fragmented before analysis. Always measure cheese pH in duplicate and use extreme care in handling the electrode. Place the fragmented cheese in a 30 ml vial or small beaker and gently push the electrode into the cheese ... too much haste is likely to break the electrode on the bottom of the beaker. To ensure good contact, press the cheese around the electrode with your fingers. There is no need to rinse the electrode between cheese samples. However, if the electrode is stored in buffer it should be rinsed with distilled water before measuring cheese pH. Always store the electrode in pH 4 buffer or as directed by the manufacturer. Do not rub the electrode. The electrode should be washed with detergent and rinsed with acetone occasionally to remove fat and protein deposits.
Some PH levels that I read from University of Guelph Science notes.
Feta—————-pH is 4.7
Camembert———The pH should be 6.2 - 6.3. to cut curds,turn hoops till pH is 4.6-4.9
Blue Cheese——pH is 4.5 - 4.7 (similar process as Camembert)
Colby—————whey pH 6.2 - 6.3 to cut curds, finishing at 5.3
Gouda—————Whey pH should be 6.4 - 6.45 to cut curds, finishing at pH should be 5.15 -5.25
Cheddar————whey pH 6.2-6.3 discard whey, final process pH is 5.4-5.3
Romano————-pH is 6.1 - 6.2 drain whey,
Swiss Cheese—-pH 6.55 - 6.50, 5.2 - 5.4 when removed from press.
Again, I'm at a total loss here.
If anyone can make heads or tails of this I would love to hear an explanation in basic language.
Remember, I'm from southern Illinois. I need something written in English!
Dave
Crap Dave, I didn't even read the post at least include some pictures for those of us who are reading challenged. It's like cramming for an examine to see who's the first one to reply.
Good Article. I agree with Carter however in that you exceeded the words/pictures ratio...
;)
I thought the "pH Versus Titratable Acidity" section was an exceptionally good read and it clarified my own thoughts on the topic. I might even recommend that this article make it to the library. Its a good reference. Perhaps Dave has a link?
The table at the bottom of your post was very interesting and I wonder where you got it.
A couple of points:
- I noticed your chart indicates a pH for cheddar at pH 5.3-5.4
- Carters weeping wheel of cheddar that was also crumbly has a pH of pH4.8
- Peter Dixon's cheddar site recommends cheddar that has a final pH of 5.1
- I read that dry, crumbly, hard cheddar is due, in part, to excess acid.
My conclusion:
I will try harder to ensure that my Cheddar's pH never fall below 5.1.
A while back there was a thread about needing a pH meter.
An analogy for its use might be this: If asked to drive a car at 30mph and stop at a stop sign exactly 1 mile ahead, one could use a speedometer and stopwatch. Theoretically, if you were very careful with the gas pedal and stopwatch, you could stop at the stop sign, or be pretty close.
I would prefer to see the stopsign.
Wayne...
Good post.
I'm looking forward to getting my PH meter and starting to play around with it.
As I've posted previously I've been fairly happy with my results but I really want to make great cheese, not just cheese that is acceptable.
I don't know that I will ever understand the information that I posted but at least I have some numbers to focus on (the numbers in the chart at the end of the post).
If nothing else, it will be fun playing with the meter.
Dave
It's not all the that hard to understand it just needs to be explained in plain terms, check out this website, just skip over the chemisty section. Dave first thing get a small clear plastic cup, the ones you buy for refill for bathroom cups, the little one the dentist give you. Then see where the fill line on the PH meter is then mark that on the cup. The point is you want to get the smallest sample so as to not waste milk. This means do not put the PH meter directly in your milk, always take a sample and then throw the sample away. I've been using the same cup for years, just rinse it everytime, as you'll be taking about 5-8 samples per batch. Just make sure to rinse the PH meter in distilled water after taking a milk reading. Just have a glass of distilled water by and just dunk and swirl, then take your milk reading, then rinse in TAP water before putting the cap on. You don't want to store it with distilled water. Inside the cap will be about 1/8 - 1/4 tsp. of liquid to keep the probe moist. If you didn't buy storage solution just use tap water and recalibrate every few months.
OK, this thread has got some great info on pH and TA (though I still have trouble seeing what better information titratable acidity is giving, and where it can actually be substituted for/supplemented with pH for better results).
For my contribution, I haven't seen this site posted here, but if you have the time, it's worth reading through his five page manifesto on acidity control. If you don't understand why it's important, it'll explain it. I know it started to rearrange my perspective on how the whole cheesemaking process progresses. Most all of the information there can probably also be found here, but it's nice reading one person's full description of why it all matters, start to finish:
http://www.isleofmullcheese.co.uk/jalldridge/jaindex.htm (http://www.isleofmullcheese.co.uk/jalldridge/jaindex.htm)
I am half-way done reading this. This is a great post and a great contribution to the discusion.
Fantasic post. Cheese for you.
Thank you.
Echo Wayne, thanks makkonen, FWIW I've linked that website (https://cheeseforum.org/Links/Stores_Cheese.htm) and emailed the owner James(?) and told him loinked and invited him to join our forum, hope he shows up ;D.
This is exactly the type of info I have been looking for. Thank-you!
Makkonan.....
I'm only on page 2 of the acidity information but this is also just what I have been looking for.
Great find and like Wayne said....deserving of another cheese.
Thanks so much for this information.
Now you have a REALLY tough row to hoe, in finding something else that amazes us. ;D
Thanks again....I really do appreciate this info.
Dave
Thanks again to makkonen finding this obscure information, when I first clicked I was visitor #129!
As this is great info and several of the links fail and some of the webpages are missing and thus I'm worried about it's loss, and as the author says free to copy, I have just downloaded the pages and posted them in our Library (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1242.0.html).
Also, the email link to James failed, I have retried through the webstore's email.
Thanks for all the accolades. I'm glad everyone is getting as much out of it as I did. I may not be that skilled at turning out cheese, but I'm pretty confident in my skills for rooting out good stuff on the internet.
Credit where it's due -- I saw a link to the old version of the site on the Yahoo! Groups Artisan Cheesemaker list (not a lot of traffic, but good info in the old posts, if you can get past the annoying yahoo groups formatting). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Artisan_Cheesemakers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Artisan_Cheesemakers/)
The old site linked there had gone down, but some good luck with archive.org and google unearthed some buried treasure.
Dave, a tough row to hoe indeed. Oh well, I'll just have to accept it, it's all downhill from here. From helping to educate everyone, to asking 100 times "Why is my mozzarella a sloppy, grainy mess again?!" ;D
LOL@Makkonen....
All I can say is not to worry about questions concerning your Mozzarella.
They will fit right in with my questions about Gouda, and Cheddar and Stilton and Swiss and Camembert and............
I honestly believe that if I continue to make cheese for the next 40 years, (hopefully I'll live that long and still be lucid), I will still have questions concerning the process.
Honestly this is one of the many things that attracts me to this hobby.
Dave