Received 5gal of raw cow milk - from last nights milking and it was refrigerated overnight. What temp should the milk be at before I add the culture? If it needs warming, can I do it on the stove? Maximum rate of temp increase? All my other milk deliveries were right after the cows were milked so I didnt have to worry about the milk temp. Thanks a lot! BTW my first 1lb hard cheese turned out great! hence why this time I am making 5gal at one time (lol).
Well I guess that depends on what culture you are using. Meso usually prefer a lower temp around 32-36C, while thermo prefer around the 38-42C. Yes it can be heated over the stove, double boiler preferably, otherwise very slowly.
HTH
Is it important to heat it slowly BEFORE you add the culture? Do you know why? I've always assumed it mattered after adding culture. But that is based on nothing. I have alot to learn. :D
Susan
You always warm the milk first to create the proper environment for the starter bacteria. Follow your recipe. Temperatures are very important and can really affect the outcome.
Quote from: susanky on November 08, 2010, 01:13:54 AM
Is it important to heat it slowly BEFORE you add the culture? Do you know why?
I know of one reason. When I heat the milk on high temperature, or too fast, it always scorches on the bottom, and then can cling to the bottom of the pan instead of being in my cheese/yogurt. :(
When I took my class in Vermont(Three Shepherds) the instructor always heated to 70 deg added the culture to the top of the milk. Then once it bloomed on the top of the milk(we saw the specs of culture get bigger after a few minutes) he stirred it up and when the milk hit 90 deg he added the rennet.
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on November 08, 2010, 02:58:41 AM
You always warm the milk first to create the proper environment for the starter bacteria. Follow your recipe. Temperatures are very important and can really affect the outcome.
Thanks Sailor. I get that. Proper conditions for the bacteria. But I think the quesion was how quickly you get to that temperature. I realize you must go slowly once the bacteria are added as called for in the recipie (ie 2 degrees per 5 min or whatever). But does it matter how fast you heat it to get to the initial temp BEFORE you add your bacteria. If I take it out of the refrigerator at 37degrees and am going to 70 do I need to take it slowly? Someone mentioned scorching the milk. I generally use a double boiler so not an issue. I do slow down when it gets close so as not to overshoot the temp. Besides affecting the bacteria, does it do something to milk solids if heated too quickly? Or doesn't matter at that point?
Susan
Old World cheesemakers heat in copper vats over an open flame and stir constantly to avoid scorching. You want to heat quickly, but not to the point of burning the milk. With a double boiler or induction cooking, you eliminate the risk. If you heat TOO slowly, say a few hours to get to make point, then any bacteria already in the milk have a chance to multiply and become a problem.
Moto - You are obviously enamoured with Vermont Shepard. Rightfully so because they do nice cheese. Are they using a dry powder or Mother cultures? If it's a dry powder, then 2 things have to happen. First, the powder needs to rehydrate, so adding at 70F is not an issue. That's why you saw the specs getting bigger. However, renneting as soon as the milk gets to make temp goes against everything I have learned. The bacteria have to wake, start multiplying, start "eatting", and converting lactose to lactic acid. It is very important to have a little bit of acidity in order to get the most effective results from the rennet. I don't know anyone else that adds rennet immediately, and I have never seen a recipe that calls for that. Recipes always call for a ripening time that gives the bacteria time to start producing acid. But there is always more than one way to do things.
Sailor, David alternates between 4001 and 4002, DVI.
If you're curious, rennet is microbial, non-FPC, floc target is ~12 mins, multiplier is ~2.5x, cook time is 30-45 mins with a temp target of 101F. Demold target is ~5.4, salt time target is 24-36 hrs, depends on size.
Very classic tomme style cheese :)
For a tomme style, because acidification happens in the mold, renetting right away (not immediately, of course, but not waiting until the usual 6.5 for cow milk) is not terrible, so long as your inoculation rate is adequate. Also, he's using raw milk.
Ah, well that makes sense now. I didn't realize that we were talking about a Tomme. That certainly wasn't the original question from CdnMorganGal.
BUT, Moto, that is not the normal procedure for most cheeses. You normally want to see a pH drop before rennet.
Also sheep milk is different. And IIRC, the evening and morning milks are mixed, so there's a little acidity from the evening milk in there. I don't know all the details, but he does a good job start to finish, that's a great cheese.
Susan, I don't think it matters. Actually, faster is better because you want to minimize the make time and drop the pH as fast as possible without sacrificing quality. The lower pH helps to preserve the cheese.
I think I get it. When you say you want to 'minimize make time and drop pH quicky without sacrificing quality' do you mean that if you heat the milk relatively quickly so that you can add culture and get the pH dropping you go from milk to cheese as soon as possible so it is as fresh as possible. Am I following?
In my 'real life' I feel pretty confident about what I do and how I do it. When it comes to making cheese sometimes feel like I am a little slow... or even a little challenged. :P ??? :P ??? Your knowledge and expertice are amazing and impressive Thank you for sharing. I'm getting there!
Susan
Susan, exactly right. The longer milk sits at that high pH and at that high temp, the more opportunities there are for it to become contaminated, for existing bacteria, yeasts, and molds to take hold and multiply, and so on. The reason modern cultures have all gone to a faster acidification curve is to cut down on the make time and save money, and also to drop the pH quickly and make the environment worse for pathogens and spoilage bacteria.
Also, yes, the fresher the milk, the better the cheese. Of course, there's not drastic difference between 6-hour-old milk and 24-hour-old, but as milk sits it changes, and as milk sits longer at higher temps, it changes faster. In all sorts of ways (fat, protein, acidity), mostly due to the natural enzymes in the milk.
Sailor, just realized I read that too quickly. I was talking about David, who makes Vermont Shepherd. Moto is talking about the Faillaces (Mad Sheep people), completely different people and cheeses. I don't know what the Faillaces do in their makes, never met them.