[Edit -- I hope it's ok to change the title but this post has really developed into a lot more then just the cracking of my cheese so I decided to change the title to match the thread a little more].
Hi Folks,
I've just started learning how to make cheese and made my first Cheddar this past weekend. I followed a recipe more or less and used store bought pasteurized milk, culture, calcium chloride and rennet (the usual suspects I imagine) but figured I'd toss that out.
Anyway all seemed to be going well until today. I've been drying my cheese in the meat drawer of my refrigerator which I'd read is a good option when you don't have a cave and don't want to leave it on the counter. The first three days all seemed well (as far as I could tell) but today I found the cheese splitting/cracking.
Is it drying to fast? Can I still wax it? Should I just eat it and try again?
Thanks!
Erik
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0026.jpg)
This is my cheese after 3 days of drying.
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0033.jpg)
This is on trhe 4th day -- I apologize for the poor picture.
I've placed a small cup of water in the meat drawer near the cheese to make sure there is some moisture there -- I'm thinking that this might be a challenge as I live in the desert!
It smells good but I'd love to be able to age it.
Thanks in advance.
Erik
You need more humidity to prevent more cracking. Can you put it in a container with the cup of water? What is the temp of the meat drawer?
That's a big crack; I'm sure an expert can tell you how to deal with that. I don't think you would be happy with the taste just yet. Good luck.
Christine
Hi OlJarhead/Erik
Sadly this is a common problem (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Defects%20-%20General,%20Surface.htm#Defect_Surface_Cracks), here is my example (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,39.msg81.html#msg81). Basically even in the semi sealed meat drawer of your kitchen fridge the humidity is way too low and the cheese has started to dry. The problem is that the outside of the cheese dries and wants to shrink but the inside is still much moister so the outside goes into stress and eventually cracks, normally with big fissures like your pictures as cheeses have little tensile strength.
If you Search on "Crack" you'll find several discussions. The short term solution is to minimize further dehydration and enable the moisture content of the cheese to re-equalize between surface and middle. Suggest placing cheese on a mat on a plate in fridge and placing a bowl over top to seal the humidity in.
I would not wax it until you have largely healed the crack. You could eat it but flavour will be very very mild.
Longer term for humidity control, there are many ideas tricks and traps in the STANDARD METHODS - Aging Cheese and EQUIPMENT - Aging Cheese, Caves Boards. For aged cheeses temp and humidity are the biggest initial problems.
What you can do is place your cheese inside a container with a mat, make a some holes on the lid and place a hygrometer and a thermometer inside the container if the humidity goes to low just add a damp paper towel, and if the humidity is to high what I usually do is dry the container and replace the mat.
I have two cheese in my fridge with that technique and the humidity is between 80-85 and the temperature 50-53f.
Quote from: John (CH) on November 19, 2010, 12:43:35 PM
Hi OlJarhead/Erik
Sadly this is a common problem (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Defects%20-%20General,%20Surface.htm#Defect_Surface_Cracks), here is my example (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,39.msg81.html#msg81). Basically even in the semi sealed meat drawer of your kitchen fridge the humidity is way too low and the cheese has started to dry. The problem is that the outside of the cheese dries and wants to shrink but the inside is still much moister so the outside goes into stress and eventually cracks, normally with big fissures like your pictures as cheeses have little tensile strength.
If you Search on "Crack" you'll find several discussions. The short term solution is to minimize further dehydration and enable the moisture content of the cheese to re-equalize between surface and middle. Suggest placing cheese on a mat on a plate in fridge and placing a bowl over top to seal the humidity in.
I would not wax it until you have largely healed the crack. You could eat it but flavour will be very very mild.
Longer term for humidity control, there are many ideas tricks and traps in the STANDARD METHODS - Aging Cheese and EQUIPMENT - Aging Cheese, Caves Boards. For aged cheeses temp and humidity are the biggest initial problems.
Thanks for the great reply!
I see you used a cooler for the 'mini cave'. Is that a bowl of water under the cheese? I have LOTS of coolers so could do this right away!
Also, it looks like you used an ice pack to keep it cool -- how often did you change?
Thanks again!
Erik
Welcome, when I initially used that cooler box I had to change the plastic freezer blocks about 2X per day, no water bowl as the blocks sweated as they melted, like cold beer bottle sweats, at least it did for me here in high humidity Houston. The consequence was that my RH was often at 100% so when I changed the blocks I also had to wipe out puddles of water.
The cooler was a better solution than household fridge (which normally cannot go warm enough for optimal aging) for temperature but not great for humidity control or temp control as cycled during the day plus labor intensive. Over time I found it to be a PITB thus with time I migrated to a separate fridge for my "cave" and bought an external thermostat.
Good luck healing your crack!
Hi OlJarhead- it looked like a very good first effort to me. The problem with the splitting is a common one to overcome. You can place it in a sealed Tupperware(or similar)container to help control the humidity. Typically the refrigerator drawer will not hold enough humidity. It needs to be around 85%. You could try drying the cheese until you get a nice dry rind and then waxing or vacuum bagging it. Doing it in this manner then you will not have to deal with the humidity problem. The other issue is the temperature of the drawer that you are storing the cheese in. Typically the drawers will be way to cold-in the high 30's to middle 40's. You probably want to store and age your cheese around 50-55 degrees. So you have some problem solving to do-nothing a OlJarhead will have an issue with.
Welcome to the CheeseForum and congrats on making cheese!
I just have a question - in the pictures, it looks to me as though the bottom is very wet and the top is very dry. Have you been turning the cheese every day? If not, that could be a part of the problem as well.
Quote from: MrsKK on November 20, 2010, 01:30:19 PM
Welcome to the CheeseForum and congrats on making cheese!
I just have a question - in the pictures, it looks to me as though the bottom is very wet and the top is very dry. Have you been turning the cheese every day? If not, that could be a part of the problem as well.
I turn it over each day but the top and bottom don't seem to be drying much and there is no rind. Whereas the side is developing a rind.
I had a piece of cheesecloth over the top for a while because I read it was good to do that to keep dust off etc but I've removed it.
Also, I'm sitting the cheese on cheesecloth over paper towel -- should I do something else?
Thanks!
I went down to our new Cheese Store in town and chatted with them for a bit today :) I left with 2/3rds of a pound of Fiscalini Cheddar (holy cow is that good!) and this:
When Cheddar cracks you can wrap it in slightly moist cheesecloth to heal it while ripening.
Anyone heard of doing this? I don't want to try it without first getting some feedback.
Thanks!
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0058.jpg)
I'm going to have to find a hydrometer but I find this seems to be a much better option. Now I'm off to get a thermometer and a hydrometer and more ice packs :)
I'm going to have to increase the amount of ice in the cooler as I'm finding the cooler temp (now that I have a thermometer for it) is still about 65 degrees.
On the other hand Jim at cheesemaking.com tells me that he ripens at 60-65 so maybe that's ok?
The cheese really needs to be above where the whey drains out - most people use cheesemats. I use bamboo paper plate holders and put a washcloth underneath the plate holder, so that it absorbs the whey that is being expelled.
I do my initial drying phase in the cabinet when the temperatures in my basement are 60 degrees or lower. If warmer than that, the initial drying is in my spare refrigerator. I have cats and dogs and want to protect my young cheese from the fiends and their floating hair!
Despite putting the cheese in a mini cave and even using a moist cheesecloth (as above) to try to slow down the drying on the sides my cheese has cracked even more :(
Maybe it's just too dry here?
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0068-1.jpg)
A little fuzzy but shows the cracks I think
Quote from: OlJarhead on November 23, 2010, 06:09:48 AM
Despite putting the cheese in a mini cave and even using a moist cheesecloth (as above) to try to slow down the drying on the sides my cheese has cracked even more :(
Maybe it's just too dry here?
Is it in a covered container? Or simply open with a wet cloth on it?
Quote from: KosherBaker on November 23, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on November 23, 2010, 06:09:48 AM
Despite putting the cheese in a mini cave and even using a moist cheesecloth (as above) to try to slow down the drying on the sides my cheese has cracked even more :(
Maybe it's just too dry here?
Is it in a covered container? Or simply open with a wet cloth on it?
It's in a cooler with an icepack in the bottom keeping it around 60 degrees.
I don't know, I'm still struggling with this initial drying too. It always says 'room temperature'. But I think my house is too warm. And although it always says let it sit out, it seems there is never enough humidity in the ambient air. So mine has a cake cover placed over it loosely to retain moisture. I think it is holding too much. I plan to get something similar that I can put a few holes in. But it hasn't dried out! Maybe drying too slow. So maybe some kind of a loose cover would help to slow the drying.
Susan
QuoteErik, the humidity is too dry the rind shrinks as it loses water and the cheese body does not. This causes the rind to crack. You do need to get the humidity to at least 75-85% to avoid this. For the current case try wrapping the cheese in a brine soaked cloth to rehydrate the rind.
... jim
I got that reply from Jim at Cheesemaking.com in my email this am. I don't have any cheese wraps so I used cheese cloth and did my best to get the cheese moist (not too much) and wrapped up in the mini cave. I plan to search for a small fridge today to make a cave with -- and maybe I'll have to get a humidifier for it too.
I bought an electronic Thermometer and Hydrometer and found the house reading 35% humidity at this time (with a few buckets of water laying about to help raise it a little (new experiment).
The mini cave is 52% at this time :( :( :(
Any ideas? I have a bowl of water in the cave as well as a thawing icepack.
OK I've decided to try harder to get the humidity up. I've now added a LOT more water to the cooler (just dumped it in the bottom and added a full glass on top of that) and hopefully I'll see a change to the positive *crossing fingers*
I've also wrapped the cheese in cheesecloth that was soaked in brine and then wrung out so it was just damp....
It's been ripening for 8 days now and I'm hopeful that in the next 6 I can get the darn humidity high enough.
I've also found a small fridge I could buy for $40 (it's even new) so I'm going to try to get it tomorrow.
Finally! With all the water I added I was able to get the humidity up to 79%!!! I'm pretty happy now and hopeful that FINALLY I might be able to get the cracks to mend.
Hey Erik.
I see you have found the solution to the humidity problem. Reading the archives I saw a lot of people recommend the following trick. Take a piece of cloth, kitchen towel or cheese cloth or whatever. Dip one end of it in the water and spread the rest of it out over as large an area as you can. This will keep the cloth wet and the large surface area will increase the humidity level.
Quote from: KosherBaker on November 24, 2010, 05:43:27 PM
Hey Erik.
I see you have found the solution to the humidity problem. Reading the archives I saw a lot of people recommend the following trick. Take a piece of cloth, kitchen towel or cheese cloth or whatever. Dip one end of it in the water and spread the rest of it out over as large an area as you can. This will keep the cloth wet and the large surface area will increase the humidity level.
Very interesting, thanks! I plan to buy a small fridge and turn it into a cave shortly! I might have to try this trick in it to see if I can get the humidity up there.
Right now, in our house it is 31% -- and that isn't even as dry as it can get!
Erik
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0084.jpg)
I'm still having trouble getting the cracks to seal -- should I just soak the cloth in brine and put it on wet now as a last ditch effort?
At 12 days the cheese seems to be developing a rind all over but it's also starting to mold. I beleive the mold is normal and expected -- maybe even a good sign -- but was surprised at the different colors.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on what I should do if I can't get the cracks to seal? Should I just stop the ripening phase and eat the cheese? Or should I just brine it (or brush with salt?) and wax anyway? Won't the cracks mold? Should I cut the cracks out and wax the rest?
Thoughts?
Thanks
Erik
If it were me, I would cut this cheese into quarters, cutting out the cracked portion, and wax or lard and bandage the cheese. Use salt and vinegar to "sand" off the mold first.
I'm really wondering if this cheese didn't have a lot of moisture trapped inside. How did you press it (weight/psi) and for how long? Did you flip it a couple of times during the press?
Don't be discouraged by this one cheese and it's challenges. This time of year it is difficult to balance out humidity in regions where we need to heat our homes.
Quote from: MrsKK on November 26, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
If it were me, I would cut this cheese into quarters, cutting out the cracked portion, and wax or lard and bandage the cheese. Use salt and vinegar to "sand" off the mold first.
I'm really wondering if this cheese didn't have a lot of moisture trapped inside. How did you press it (weight/psi) and for how long? Did you flip it a couple of times during the press?
Don't be discouraged by this one cheese and it's challenges. This time of year it is difficult to balance out humidity in regions where we need to heat our homes.
Thanks for the help.
I used a cheese press I bought on ebay (first mistake) that claims to press to 50lbs.
After reading too many recipes I pressed this way:
1. One hour at about 10-15lbs
2. Flipped Cheese and pressed 3 hours at about 25lbs
3. Flipped Cheese and pressed 24 hours at about 50 lbs.
When pressing at 50 lbs (full spring compression) I cranked down the press a little past the '50 lbs' setting and any time I saw the spring begin to open up (from the cheese shrinking away from the follower I guessed) I pressed it back.
After pressing I put the cheese in my fridge meat drawer on a plate with paper towel under it. (biggest mistake).
I hadn't realized the need for high humidity until after the cracking started and I began to ask questions.
Typically our house runs about 33% (now that I can check it) so when the cheese was in the fridge (over 4 days) it was way too dry. Even now at about 79% humidity in the mini cave the cheese doesn't seem to want to repair.
Also, when pressing I didn't get a lot of whey out of it. I used 3/4's 2% milk and 1/4 homogenized 3% (it's what I had).
I'm planning another attempt tomorrow -- but this time no messing around! 3% milk and mini cave all the way.
So, here is my next question: If I can cut away the cracks leaving a fairly solid block of cheese and I wax that don't I then need to store it at 55 degrees or less? (The mini cave sits around 60-65 degrees most of the time with lower then desirable humidity from what I've heard).
OK Pictures to follow soon.
I couldn't find a 'recipe' for 'vinegar and water' (I know this sounds dumb but I'm a technician and need directions most the time) so I just tossed a couple tablespoons of salt into a bowl and a 1/3 cup of vinegar or so and then began to 'sand' the cheese.
I was able to get the mold off (though I could still smell it) and rinsed the cheese with water afterwards and then used just salt to sand it again to be safe.
I then cut off the cracks (which left about 1/3 lbs of cheese) and noticed the cheese appeared to be moist and not fully pressed in the center. I waxed what I could (the rest is sitting on a plate while I figure out what to do with it) and tasted a little.
The texture was similar to cream cheese though it was crumbley (is that a word) and the taste was um, well, maybe tart or acidy but actually quite robust. In fact I liked the taste and thought that if this is what I'm in for I'm going to get FAT because if the flavor improves it will be NOTHING like the cheddar I've purchased in the store! Not even the super expensive stuff. WOW!
Anyway, I waxed the cheese despite the texture and holes etc and await advice on what to do and what I did wrong (while making a second batch as I type).
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0089-1.jpg)
This is what the cheese looks like after I tried cutting away the cracks. I didn't quarter it because I was hoping to save the main body of the cheese...just didn't work out that way.
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/IMG_0094.jpg)
So I waxed what I had and will make another batch -- though I'm hoping someone will pop in and give me some ideas on what might have gone wrong here.
Thanks!
Erik
I think my problem might have been the lack of cheddaring? One recipe I had said to cut the curd, cook it at 102 for 45 minutes and then drain the whey and press.
Another said to cook it for an hour after draining the whey.
Neither mentioned acid.
I've now seen a link that shows cheddaring (keeping the curd at 100 degrees after draining the whey I guess) for as much as 2 hours or more.
So, this time I guess I'll try letting the curd 'cheddar' for an hour while keeping it warm.
I also noticed in a link provided on this site that you can stir with a big fork (pitch fork in the photo's) which helps keep the curds separated. I'm going to try this.
Thanks!
I've vacuum sealed both the waxed cheese and the unwaxed bits and stuck in the fridge. My thinking is that from what I've read here it isn't good to rely on wax when the cheese isn't dense and solid like these aren't and that once vacuumed they can't lose moisture.
One question though: why is Jim over at Cheesemaking.com saying not to do this? Does it kill off the bacteria and stop the aging process? I'm curious now.
In any case, I'm eagerly waiting responses to my last questions.
Thanks
Erik
Hi Erik.
Well, I wish I had answer(s) for you, but I'm not sure that I do. Clearly, you have too much moisture in the cheese. As you know critters works much faster in the moist environment whether it is a bread dough or cheese. So if you age that cheese according to the recipe you may end up with overripe cheese. Perhaps bitter aftertaste and such.
The best thing to do would be to head over to the Cheddar forum and read the Cheddar related posts. I haven't made a Cheddar myself yet as it requires a very strong press. From what I understand much stronger than what the Spring Based presses can muster. So I'm holding off on Cheddar until I build my own Dutch Style Cheese Press.
Vacuuming cheese that is as young and moist as what you have probably won't give you good results. There's too much whey in it still and it can turn the cheese bitter. If you like how it tastes now, just go ahead and eat it and chalk it all up to a learning experience.
Quote from: MrsKK on November 30, 2010, 03:56:01 AM
Vacuuming cheese that is as young and moist as what you have probably won't give you good results. There's too much whey in it still and it can turn the cheese bitter. If you like how it tastes now, just go ahead and eat it and chalk it all up to a learning experience.
Thanks Karen, seems like I'll just eat it then :) I did like the flavor...
Quote from: OlJarhead on November 28, 2010, 11:50:02 PM
One question though: why is Jim over at Cheesemaking.com saying not to do this? Does it kill off the bacteria and stop the aging process? I'm curious now.
Please see my answers to this here:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,14561.msg158763.html#msg158763 (http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,14561.msg158763.html#msg158763)
I've also answered this question before on this forum
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4666.msg36117.html#msg36117 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4666.msg36117.html#msg36117)
I am not sure why NECS has that on its site. It's not a factual statement that vacuum sealing stops aging. Not even true for commercial cheeses. One thing I like to do is get large chunks of cheap, young cheddar and age them for a few years to give me a bulk sharp cheddar.
Quote
So, here is my next question: If I can cut away the cracks leaving a fairly solid block of cheese and I wax that don't I then need to store it at 55 degrees or less? (The mini cave sits around 60-65 degrees most of the time with lower then desirable humidity from what I've heard).
Yes, for cheddar, the appropriate aging temp is 40-45F. You can age at a higher temp, but it will age faster. If you age at 60-65, there is a high chance you will get off-flavors.
Quote from: linuxboy on November 30, 2010, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: OlJarhead on November 28, 2010, 11:50:02 PM
One question though: why is Jim over at Cheesemaking.com saying not to do this? Does it kill off the bacteria and stop the aging process? I'm curious now.
Please see my answers to this here:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,14561.msg158763.html#msg158763 (http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,14561.msg158763.html#msg158763)
I've also answered this question before on this forum
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4666.msg36117.html#msg36117 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4666.msg36117.html#msg36117)
I am not sure why NECS has that on its site. It's not a factual statement that vacuum sealing stops aging. Not even true for commercial cheeses. One thing I like to do is get large chunks of cheap, young cheddar and age them for a few years to give me a bulk sharp cheddar.
Great thanks! I did some reading on those posts and appreciate your efforts!
Erik
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/5weeks_1stCheddar.jpg)
I decided to sample my 1st cheese today after just 5 weeks of aging. There was no mold and the texture seemed to have improved.
I took a sniff and the cheese smelled a little like sour milk (wondering if that is normal).
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/emcvay/5weeks_1stCheddar2.jpg)
I cut off a piece and sampled it -- taste was 'robust' I guess. Not bad at all however too salty.
I'm wondering if I need to cut the amount of salt used or if the saltyness goes away a little as the cheese ages?
Thanks
Erik
PS. Should this be in the Cheddar forum now?