I just received as a gift a case of Graber olives from Ontario, CA. They are truly delicious olives that my wifes family has enjoyed for decades. This got me wondering if any crafty people on this forum make olives. We'll hopefully be moving back to CA soon and would be nice to add this to my list of crafts. Would be great to learn from others.
Yes, lactofermented. They take a long time that way. If you use lye, it only takes a few weeks before they are edible.
I am constantly amazed by you, linuxboy. Your breadth of knowledge is amazing. How is one lifetime enough to become an expert in so many fields? We are lucky to have you here on the forum. I'm going to cheese you for sharing it with us!
Susan
It's really easy, like making pickles or kimchee or kraut or any other fermented veggie.
You make up a light brine (1 cup salt to 1 gal water), and add a little vinegar and some lactic starter from a previous batch of kraut or pickles. Whey works in a pinch, or it will usually start on its own even without starter. Crack the olives with a rolling pin so during fermentation they are permeated more quickly. And then you put everything in a bucket, cover with a plate so that everything is anaerobic (molds and other unwanted stuff will grow if there's air exposure), and leave that for a few months. Instead of a bucket, you could use a gallon container with an airlock on it, like you would for winemaking.
Then sometimes I change out the brine if it gets too funky. Half a year later, they're ready to eat. Sometimes takes longer. You can store them in a light brine after they finish, but I just keep fermenting them.
I'm not so much an expert, but you're very kind. I throw stuff together and it tastes good and I feed people. :)
I'll bet you throw a heck of a fantastic dinner party! 8)
I use lye for soap making, and clearing drains. I've heard of using for olives, but I guess I'll have to Google a bit more on its use. Is there a big flavor difference between the two methods? Do you have a preference for whey from a particular style cheese? Where in Washington do you source raw olives (or do you make a special trip to CA?)
My copy of Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living describes the lye method of making olives. I know it is an older edition, maybe from the late 80's or early 90's, so I'm not sure if it is in the latest edition to come out.
I think there's a fairly big flavor difference. Lye will make olives soft and mushy and kind of buttery tasting, like avocados. And using water or brine will give you a lot more olive flavor... think kalamata vs canned olives.
I don't like using whey for lacto fermentation because classically Leuconostoc is the predominant bacteria naturally, and a whey will have mostly lactococcus usually. I usually use some liquid from a kraut batch or a pickle batch and keep the bacterial mix going, like sourdough.
I'm moving to CA, so I'm in Norcal fairly often, easy to get olives. In a few years hopefully I'll have my own. Olive trees are so pretty.
Linuxboy, I'll be moving back there soon too. What area are you considering? Do you work in dairy, or is it just a hobby? We'll have to meet some time once we're both down there. I'll be in the Redding area.
I'll be in Ukiah, starting the farm buildout this year. Rather complicated answer of what I do for a living. As I like to say, I make people feel good about their decision to pay me money and I deliver peace of mind. :)
Building out your own farm, will that be your new permanent home? It's about 3 hours from where I'll be. Your job description certainly has me curious.
Yep, I'm trading in 100-hour weeks in the office for 100-hour weeks of kidding season and the sound of keyboard strokes for the sound of milk sloshing in the bucket :)
I have found that aging fermented olives to further break down bitter phenolic compounds really improoves flavour and aroma.
Thats why I make a rather big batch (10kg) each year in various styles (dry cured and emmersed in oil,brined and fermented, blacks and greens),
So Im always eating last years fruits.
Don't worry, Linux, the 100 hour weeks last way longer than just kidding season. By the way, are you also on a Saturn site as Linuxdude?
Tomer1, are you in CA? At What point are you done curing the olives? That is to say, do the phenolic compounds keep getting washed out with continued switching out of water or brine, or does this occur with your final brining or oil cure simply as a matter of extended time?
No, that's a different person. I also post on dairygoatinfo, but that's about it. The washing depends on what method you use. If you ferment, the bacteria and acid breaks down the bitterness. If you wash with water, it's a slow leaching process, and you need to wash repeatedly. If using lye, it's the lye.
Quote from: smilingcalico on January 20, 2011, 11:08:01 AM
Don't worry, Linux, the 100 hour weeks last way longer than just kidding season. By the way, are you also on a Saturn site as Linuxdude?
Tomer1, are you in CA? At What point are you done curing the olives? That is to say, do the phenolic compounds keep getting washed out with continued switching out of water or brine, or does this occur with your final brining or oil cure simply as a matter of extended time?
Hi,No Im not an american I live in israel.
I do about 10 days of soaking with daily water change to remove as much of the bitter compounds,
Personally I have found that salt doesnt acceleratethe process much, I use a 2-3% brine solution with with sort of spices like red dry chillies,zattar-thyme ,bay leaf,crushed garlic for the anerobic fermentation stage which shortly follow.
The remaining bitterness does decline during aging as I mentioned above.
The more bitterness you take out at first during soaking the less there will remain,
I like some bitterness in mine.
Quote from: linuxboy on January 01, 2011, 09:50:41 PM
I'll be in Ukiah, starting the farm buildout this year. Rather complicated answer of what I do for a living. As I like to say, I make people feel good about their decision to pay me money and I deliver peace of mind. :)
Peace of
mind,
peace of mind! I knew I misread the school occupational brochure....I thought it said delivering
piece of mind, so I worked my young butt off, trying to perfect
cervelles!
I didn't know this was the plan, Pav. Congratulations, looking forward to hearing more as this develops. WA's loss is my home state's gain. :)
I reckon lye prepered olives are a waste of time for the home maker,
You can just get some at the store and thats about the "best" this style can provide.
The artisian\homemade approach to me is taking your time to create the best product and\or making something that you will have to pay a fortune in the store.
I wrote a 19 page article on home curing olives. I'm sure it will help...I'm not sure if it'll help. It's got all the different styles of home cured olives. Even including recipes. Unfortunately my website hosting place is offline.
Going to try to attatch it.
Thank you!
Unfortunatlly all of my stock is gone so im dieting from olives and harvest is still several months away :(
I have some friends who want to join in on the make since they liked it so much,
I may have them go out and buy a 30L bucket. I dont want my small wine fermenters smelling of olives.
should stock up on pillow cases in my opinion. The salt cured has so much more flavor then any other curing method. If their too salt just roll them in a bit of olive oil, or toss them lightly in water...I like to toss mine in boiling water in a fine mesh basket. I find it removes a lot of the salt yet leaves a ton of flavor.
I find a 62 quart stainless stock pot is best for the lye curing methods. (15.5 gallons). A little less than twice a 30 liter bucket.
I'll have to look into that method, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
"I find a 62 quart stainless stock pot is best for the lye curing methods"
HDPE is also chemical resistant as much less expenssive.
Also given that your aging container is properly topped up all the way to the lid and with a small layer of oil the olives can last for yeast without mold or film yeast = spoilage.
Thats why I like to ferment in a large container and once fermentation is done,devide the batch into small plastic\glass jars which are "family portion size" (500 grams or so).
This way you dont need to take up huge fridge space nor use preservatives in large opened containers left outside. (Metabisulfit can be used as a perservative, I reckon 100ppm or 0.01 g\L should do it but I couldnt google an exact number of molecular so2 used by the olive industry).
To ferment them, I prefere to have them in jars rather then a large container. The reason is to me they get too soft if there's too many of them in a container to ferment. A large container probably be good if your doing thousands of pounds and you own your own grove. Least in my opinion. I liken it to a japanese story about making sushi rice. You must never leave a single grain of rice alone. If left alone it will miss it's friends, it will become unhappy and die, and this will make the rest of the rice sad, and it will die. If you put too few olives together in a batch, they will become sad and die they miss the company. If you put too many olives in a container, like many people they will become angry and unhappy, and they will not be as nice as a perfect batch of cured olives.
The reason I don't use preservatives in any of the cures in my article is, their not needed. Almost all cures for olives have salt. This is why when you pop open a can of commercial black pearl olives you drink the juice it's rather salty. Salt replaces those industrial preservatives. It's cheaper, it's more readily obtained. If someone wanted to get into curing of olives, then it be the best route and cheaper then going out and buying all this industrial stuff. In my opinion it also preserves the old ways, the roots of the experiance. It's why I mentioned Passum and ash.
A problem I had when I first began was the fermented olives also blew the lid off my containers. So I did step up to a fermenter for beer and wine with a airlock on top of it to aid in the release of gas to prevent being woken up in the middle of the night.
Once I got them into jars, I loosely cover with a lid. For my olives when working with lye, I will always use that large stock pot. It's in my opinion safer. Your not moving around 5-6 containers of lye solution, your not leaving it outside for things to get into. Your working with one container, wich is easier to keep track of. Fewer mistakes expecially if your just starting out. Then I pour off the lye, then I change the water periodically to get rid of the lye in the olives. 3-4 times in 50 hours the water needs to be changed. After a brine is made up with lactic acid, and they go into the canning jars and then they go into the fridge, only after when they have finished fermenting do they get a topping of olive oil. I also don't use just straight olive oil, I tend to infuse the olive oil. Usually with garlic, so when you take out your fermented olives, you'll also get a nice hint of garlic and yummy olive oil ontop of the taste of the olive.
I understand your reasoning, so the best advice for anyone to take up this craft is to use a container that suits your needs. I process roughly 800-1500 pounds of olives a year, thanks to my aunts, uncles and grandfather who are always sending me their harvest to cure for them. Large containers do play a role for me, but I don't rely on them as a fermenter. Fermenting them in jars in the fridge is great for me. Little more work, but it's wonderful. I will make note that I don't have a regular home fridge. I got a fridge devoted to just olives. I got it out of the trash, it worked, I cleaned it up and I went to my local brew shop and picked up a temprature regulator used in brewing and set that up to be my "olive cure cave in Italy".
Another thing I do, is never cure with lye alone. Even though I been curing olives for the past 5 years, I've had accidents my self. Mostly lye solution spilt on the ground leading to red skin, peeling, and a few chemical burns, when my brother snuck up behind me with an air horn while I was holding a container of lye. Not only did I get hurt, but he got hurt too. So pair up when working with lye. Since I've paired up and got my girlfriend doing it with me, it's much easier, and I've not had a single accident yet.
Anyone who's getting into it, I'd also encourage them to make their own olive oil. It is so much different from store bought, you'll grow your own trees just to make olive oil once you taste and see the difference.
Salt in the range fond in olives which are not tremendiously salty (feta salty) is not enough to depress aerobic spoilage organisms which turn up the moment you increase your headspace.
"I'd also encourage them to make their own olive oil"
Do you have access to a processing house?
How much are you paying per ton of processed fruit?
I invested in my own hobby mill. I dropped 2650 on it all together, had to assemble it myself though. There is a local place that did offer me at one point to bring it to them and they wanted I think 500-600 roughly per ton.
Nice small little unit, 20 ton hydraulic press, 2 sets of filters and plates, and 2 stainless steel catch pans. I had to buy ontop of it a high end sink disposer with stainless steel chamber for the grinder, a 5 gallon water cooler bottle, and I use 3 large capacity ice cream makers for decanting. It was a great investment for me, I go through olive oil like most people go through water. I get the neighbors who come over and they watch and my son watches, well he just sits there playing with his toys, he's 16 months old but he's involved some what.
As for head space, I find an inch is plenty of head space, nothing more. I've never had a spoilage problem with any of my olives. I first started out with dry cured olives, moved on to water cured, then moved onto brined, and then lye, then lye fermented. I am in the process of working up the courage for the Passum and ash cured olives.