I thought this cheese cave idea was interesting. See for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12 (http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12)
Erik, I'm just going to "PaulWheaton12"'s youtube channel. Did you have a specific video to watch?
Here's the link to the cheese cave video: http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12#p/u/0/QIxLw9t1IuA (http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12#p/u/0/QIxLw9t1IuA)
Very interesting and much like what I've been thinking of doing with a corner of my basement that is naturally pretty cool anyway. He doesn't say how he keeps the humidity levels up - I thought an air conditioner would draw most of the humidity out.
Thanks, MrsKK - sorry, Erkki, I looked but obviously not close enough (that would include your name, apologies :-[). I'm also jealous! I have seen this kind of setup elsewhere, but wondering, too, how one gets the humidity control? Secondly, any issues with maintaining clean air, given the nature of AC filters, etc.?
Watch the video closely. Looks like the heart er brains of the cave is the CoolBot controller.
I went to their site at http://www.storeitcold.com/index.php (http://www.storeitcold.com/index.php) and watched the videos etc. First to solve the cleanliness issue you would use recirculated air, not "fresh" outside air.
Humidity in a large environment would be easier to control, just use a larger humidifier if the volume of cheese wasn't sufficient keep it at 80% =/-.
The room would have to be well insulated and have washable waterproof walls. I would be more afraid of the wrong molds, i.e. black mold growing.
Quote from: steampwr8 on January 01, 2011, 05:07:10 PM
Watch the video closely. Looks like the heart er brains of the cave is the CoolBot controller.
I went to their site at http://www.storeitcold.com/index.php (http://www.storeitcold.com/index.php) and watched the videos etc. First to solve the cleanliness issue you would use recirculated air, not "fresh" outside air.
Humidity in a large environment would be easier to control, just use a larger humidifier if the volume of cheese wasn't sufficient keep it at 80% =/-.
The room would have to be well insulated and have washable waterproof walls. I would be more afraid of the wrong molds, i.e. black mold growing.
Steam, it's the black mold I was wondering about, since in my experience, AC's especially are badly prone to this. Not up enough on differential bacterial competition to know, but suspect that like most things, if nutrients are given to the right, and not the wrong, beasties, it can be controlled - even if it exists on the AC, for instance. Right?
You know what they say about Cleanliness.....
You would have to have a regular cleaning cycle where the AC wash disinfected with mild bleach or sanitizer.
Nothing is impossible, just one would have to be vigilant...couldn't plug it in and forget it.
Reading more from the Coolbot website, very intrigued by the idea; "Cool" indeed, very clever solution. I understand a larger room means precipitous variances in humidity won't be as big a problem, but still wondering what mechanism exists to gain and maintain humidity at the high levels it needs for aging?
I would venture to say that the challenge would be the same as in every other 'artificial cave'. Cooling is provided with some sort of condenser using a coolant.
If you have a hole in the ground or a cement lined basement that provides 'natural' radiant cooling you then just add the amount of humidity needed to get to aging levels 80%+. Not so hard as nothing other than natural precipitation on the walls or fixtures would take the levels down. And you wouldn't operate the cave at these saturation levels anyway.
It might be a little tougher, but one would use the same methods. A bigger humidifier or run the one that you have until levels are met. You just have to add it faster than the condenser of the AC can take the humidity out. A balancing act, but doable.
Hey guys. For whatever it may be worth. There are humidity controllers out there, just like temperature controllers that so many use on their fridges. Here's a link to one:
Humidity Controller (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HONEYWELL-Digital-Humidity-Controller-3CHL5)
Also here's a link to a blog of one of the forum members, where he has a similar cave setup in his basement in Brooklin. The blog has lots of great cheese info too. The Cheese cave info is under the entry called "cheese cave".
Cheese Making Blog (http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/)
Quote from: KosherBaker on January 03, 2011, 06:43:26 AM
Hey guys. For whatever it may be worth. There are humidity controllers out there, just like temperature controllers that so many use on their fridges. Here's a link to one:
Humidity Controller (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HONEYWELL-Digital-Humidity-Controller-3CHL5)
Also here's a link to a blog of one of the forum members, where he has a similar cave setup in his basement in Brooklin. The blog has lots of great cheese info too. The Cheese cave info is under the entry called "cheese cave".
Cheese Making Blog (http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/)
Thanks for the links, Kosher. I have seen some variations on the controllers within this range, and still thinking on some options myself, so appreciate it, really helpful. Getting a reefer today, which is where I'm starting, but already thinking of a dedicated cold room, along these lines.
Nice blog! - which member is this? Interesting comment on the blog, about his
suspicions that the coolbot has "driven away the microorganisms":
QuoteMy cave in Brooklyn seems to be rather sterile these days since I installed a Coolbot about a month ago.
Although the Coolbot keeps the cave at the desired temperature (56F) and the relative humidity is at 90%, I am afraid the constant air-movement created by the Coolbot has chased out all the microorganisms. At least, this is my guess.
Piques me to wonder, how much air movement is "too much?"
Quote from: ArnaudForestier on January 03, 2011, 03:28:40 PM
Nice blog! - which member is this?
I believe his name is Oude Kaas.
Thanks, Rudy.
Paul
I've really enjoyed all the comments to the video. Do you know if the Brooklyn site had the Coolbot of energy saving mode or running all the time?
To help control bacteria etc coupd you not have an air purifier? Some air conditioners andhumidifiers include this feature.
Quote from: ArnaudForestier on January 03, 2011, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: OudekaasMy cave in Brooklyn seems to be rather sterile these days since I installed a Coolbot about a month ago.
Although the Coolbot keeps the cave at the desired temperature (56F) and the relative humidity is at 90%, I am afraid the constant air-movement created by the Coolbot has chased out all the microorganisms. At least, this is my guess.
Piques me to wonder, how much air movement is "too much?"
I believe this is the issue with mine as well. Hard alpines are doing as expected, but rebs are not developing any evidence of linens (though yeasts are apparently having a blast). I've heavily seeded with highly active/aromatic linens and other coryn's - but nothing. Interesting that the ultrasonic humidifiers have plenty of linens development inside the wells, but despite covering wood, walls, ceilings, door, cheeses, even, with a heavily seeded linens blend, nothing on these rebs and very slight on the hard alpines.
Rebs taste great due to other development, highly proteolyzed, but again, no linens.
I've switched my A/C to energy saver mode and re-installed the air sock I fashioned out of PVC. Will see.
Paul, I happen to stumble on this post. When confronted with this issue I realized I needed less airflow in the room. On most ACs the fan is always on but I had heard of units of which the fan only works when the compressor is on. As I wasn't ready to lay out more money for a new unit which would have this feature, I thought it may be possible to modify the unit I had. So I found the electric schematic of the unit, posted this on some electric forums with the question what to chance in this so the fan would only blow when the compressor is on. Within a few days I had several replies with the answer. I opened the unit, and did as I was told, a simple procedure, and voila, success! The conditions in the room improved rapidly.
Fantastic, thanks, Jos. I actually do have an energy saver mode, so that the A/C kicks on as you describe - the fan only kicks on when the compressor kicks on (the unit also has a delay, which is nice, so as not to fry my compressor turning on and off and burning out). Kudos to you for implementing such a cool workaround.
I also installed a very primitive sock system, so knock on wood, the air flow is even gentler:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/DSCN2143_zps7d570eb4.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/DSCN2143_zps7d570eb4.jpg.html)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/DSCN2144_zps99d8d047.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/DSCN2144_zps99d8d047.jpg.html)
-and yes, indeed, my "ductsock" is actually a line of....socks, toes cut out. Brings a whole new meaning to stinky feet.
I'm encouraged to hear of your improvements. I'm eager to see what happens now.
I still get tons from your blog, this subject included. Thank you again and all my best, my friend.