Having tried 30-min Mozz 3x with not a lot of success, I tried out a Lactic Cultured Mozz (http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48). Still no pH meter, though, so felt a bit like I was flying blind. But all the details in this recipe helped me get a better sense of what was going on, and hey- I got to eat cheese when I was done!
Briefly:
Heated 2 gallons milk + 2 cup cream to 90F.
Add DVI 1/4 tsp Meso + 1/8 tsp Thermo (cheated a bit on Meso- maybe 3/16 tsp Meso?). Ripen 90 min.
Add CaCl2.
Add 1/4 tablet rennet.
Floc time = 16 min x 3 = set for 48 minutes. All this time temp = 90F.
Cut curd 2", heal 15 min. Cut curds 1/2" (sloppy :(), heal 10 min. Stir.
Place curds in pot in hot water bath to raise to 104F while occasionally stirring. Let set 15 min at 104F.
Drain curds, store overnight in fridge.
Eventually, heat salted whey to 185, cut curd mass into chunks, stretch the chunks.
After leaving curds in the fridge overnight, I tested for stretch/spin in the morning: nothing. I waited around all day until finally by 5pm the next day I got a little spin (1-2") and just called it good. The resulting little balls were tasty and firm. Not very much "stick-togetherness", so I ended up with a lotta little balls instead of one or two big ones. I'm guessing that my acidity was still developing and I needed to wait longer before the final pulling in heated whey... next time!
Successes: I got my floc time down- probably a little too slow now- to 14 minutes (from 6)! And, I got to eat cheese!
To do next time: Don't refrigerate curds overnight- leave at room temp next time. Get a pH meter. ;)
And below: Curd chunks, ugly balls, real cheese!!, and lasagna with home made ricotta and mozz!!
Looking great! If you want some improvement ideas:
- Your moisture level seems somewhat low, you can improve that by healing longer, cutting the curds larger, and stirring less vigorously.
- Your acid level could be higher, it will lead to a softer cheese.
Overall, you're well on your way! Hope the next makes go well. Let me know if you have questions.
Ah, you are getting there! When I was reading your method, I was thinking to suggest that you ripen the curd at room temperature - but you already figured that one out on your own. Great job!
Keep at it, you are well on your way to excellent mozz.
Thanks linuxboy and MrsKK- I feel like I'm so much closer to a great Mozz after trying a true cultured Mozz and having studied both your recipes.
QuoteIf you want some improvement ideas:
Are you kidding? ALWAYS want improvement ideas!!
-Moisture is still low-agreed. Your thoughts make sense, since I am pretty sure I stirred a little too...ahem... thoroughly. And, my curd cutting was sloppy. Gotta work on that.
-Thanks for your confirmation on acid probably low- the details given in your recipe alerted me that this was probably what was going on, but by 5pm, I just couldn't wait any longer!
MrsKK- Thanks for posting your recipe as well, as this is exactly what gave me the clue to try letting the curds sit at room temp next time, to help acidity develop faster. And I am curious to try, over my next few experiments, how DVI vs. yogurt/buttermilk starters affect the final cheese. Anyway- what a great learning experience to come back to a Mozz recipe with success. Who the heck recommends Mozz as a beginner recipe...!!! ::)
"Who the heck recommends Mozz as a beginner recipe...!!! "
Nobody that's ever made it, that's for sure!
Lactic Cultured Mozz Number Two
Goals: to have a moister, stretchier cheese that melts.
Recipe: Same recipe, but 1 gallon whole milk this time (no cream), new CaCl2 solution (homemade), and no cheating on amount of DVI powder (meso and thermo, per recipe).
Make: (differences from last time in BOLD):
Heat to 90F.
Add DVI 1/4 tsp Meso + 1/8 tsp Thermo. Ripen 90 min. I shortened in anticipation of leaving curds at RT overnite and didn't want to over acidify. Bad call, as it turns out.
Add CaCl2. (Homemade solution; new dosage rate that should be industry standard now- think I was too low before).
Add 1/4 tablet rennet.
Floc time = 6 min x 3 = set for 18 minutes. temp = 90F. Note to self: buy liquid rennet, throw tabs away! Too hard to measure tabs, plus other reasons.
Cut curd 2", heal 15 min. Cut curds 1/2" heal 10 min. Stir. Excellent curd set- new CaCl2 or too much rennet..?
Place curds in pot in hot water bath to raise to 104F while occasionally stirring. Let set 15 min at 104F. Stirred less overall this time to try and reduce moisture.
Drain curds, store overnight at room temp- ~65F.
After 21 HOURS, heat salted whey to 185, cut curd mass into chunks, stretch the chunks. Pretty good stretch this time- still probably not quite acidic enough though.
Successes: one smoother ball of mozz, texture a bit - grainy?- with good flavor, some smooth/satiny look. And, it melts! Oh, and all the curd chunks stuck together this time (when stretching in whey) so I got to stretch the whole mass at once instead of in a million little balls that took forever- major improvement.
To do next time: Guess I'll hold the curds at ~100F overnite to speed acid development instead of room temp. Maybe ripen longer- 90 min. Obviously, less rennet- floc time too fast.
Question: When "cooking" the curds after cutting/healing: Am I supposed to raise the curd temp to 104F immediately, or is that supposed to happen slowly during the 35 minute cook time. Thanks!
Thanks for the show and tell Scarlet Runner. The pictures help considerably with the description. I also seem to have the slow acid development and sometimes it has been so slow that I have missed the stretch point.
MrsKK and Sailor seem to have nailed it so that they are able to stretch the following morning and it would be interesting to know what the little trick is to make that happen. I have tried both MrsKK and Sailor recipes but end up stretching in the afternoon or even into the next evening ( which is not really overnight if it is 24 hours plus later).
I plan to try the Linuxboy recipe that he posted in reply to Ben's post "We should just quit with the Mozzarella". If it goes any quicker I will post the result.
Really good and helpful post. Thank you
After making the curds, if you stick them straight into the frig, you slow down all activity. Then the next morning the whole thing has to warm up to room temp to wake up the bacteria. So the trick is to let the cheese curds acidify some before putting it into the frig overnight. I usually shoot for a pH of around 6.0. If the pH is still dropping too slowly in the morning (or if I'm in a hurry), I pop mine (covered) in the dehydrator (or any warm place) at 90F until I get the pH to drop to 5.3-5.4. The bacteria are more active at a warmer temp, but I don't go over 95F. Once the bacteria are warm, awake, and active, things can progress really quickly. The pH drop can sneak up on you and go too low if you're not careful.
Of course, all this is easier to monitor with a pH meter, but you can also test samples for stretchability every so often.
I don't put my curds into the fridge at all, unless I'm planning on waiting more than 24 hours to stretch it. But that is at room temps of 60-75 degrees Fahrenheit. 100 degrees is way too hot and I think you would chance a really nasty cross-contamination, plus overacidification of your curd.
In reality, it is usually closer to 24 hours before I stretch the curd, rather than just overnight.
I was dismayed to wake this morning and find my mozz curds had gotten to 4.9 in the fridge overnight. Boo.
With the recipe I use, the curds get washed, which I think helps to control how quickly the curds acidify.
Sorry to hear about yours, Nitai. If you haven't tossed them yet, try melting it gently in a saucepan - I had some overacidified mozz curds that made a really nice cheese sauce when they were melted.
Definitely didnt toss it. It was not that much overacidified, I stretched it and it looks pretty good when all is said in done. In fact, I am about to go make white pizza with fresh ground wheat, fromage blanc base, and broccoli and sun-dried tomatoes from the garden. No loss here :)
Hummm... good discussion.
Harry, you and I seem to be in the same boat- slow acid development. I thought holding the curds overnight at room temp instead of refrigerating (like I did the first time) would help, but I'm not sure it sped things up much.
Sailor and MrsKK- thanks for the temperature recommendations, you both agree 100F too hot.
Nitai- you are blessed with the opposite problem I guess!! Glad you got to enjoy your cheese. It's way more satisfying than 30 min. Mozz anyway!!
After further tasting, my Mozz clearly has too much rennet (slightly bitter) and definitely does not have quite the right texture. I feel certain I'm not overacidified, so all I can conclude is not enough acid. I'll try to speed acid development next time by: 1. ripening with DVI longer and 2. maybe hold curds at room temp overnight, but then hold in a bowl on top of 90F germination mat the next morning until the curds pass the stretch test- instead of holding at room temp, which maybe in my house is too cold.
Thanks all for your helpful contributions... :)
You could try cheddaring them as well.
If using the citric adic method, can one simply add a little more (maybe 1 1/2 tsp rather than 1 1/4 per gallon) to increase moisture in the final cheese? If increased acidity equals increased moisture in the cheese this seems like a reasonable adjustment.
Susan
Sailor and MrsKK thanks for the confirmation that it actually does sometime take up to 24 hours. We no longer need to try to figure out what we are doing wrong. Now we can work on making the process predictable. How often do you take samples to test; I suspect that with experience you can predict when you are going to enter the " spin zone".
Scarlet Runner, I am like you on the pH meter except I have one. However, it can only give a reading in whey and is no good for reading curds so I run out of information when there is no more whey development ( or not enough to read), somewhere around the 5.8-5.9 mark. Please keep us updated on your next test. Your style of information sharing is very understandable to me and your pictures are really interesting. :)
It would be neat if there were a curve of pH against time for various temperatures. Anybody have one?
QuoteAnybody have one?
Plenty in the library, or ask your supplier for the cultures you use. If you use a custom blend or native strains, make your own.
Hey, that was quick Linuxboy. Thanks I have just looked it up and found one that looks similar to what I am getting on the beginning of my curve. There is a substantial increase in off as the speed as the pH drops into the mid 5 mark, which explains why we overshoot easily.
That's another indication of how good this forum is.
Susan, You can't really add much more Citric Acid or you risk overacidifying the curds. If the pH is too low, the heated curds will just become brittle and won't stretch.
Quoteincrease moisture in the final cheese? If increased acidity equals increased moisture in the cheese this seems like a reasonable adjustment.
What Sailor said. Also, remember acidity is about calcium balance first, moisture second or third or later. Moisture is controlled through rennet amount, CaCl2, PF, floc multiplier (primary control), and stir/cook schedule.
Well shoot. I guess I knew it couldn't really be that simple. I don't quite have my mind wrapped out the Ca++ and acidity issue. Is there information somewhere about the chemistry of it all that would help?
I made a batch yesterday and for the first time ever after it 'set' it was still just milk! I had used Junket (because I had always done that with Mozzarella). When it didn't set I added 1/2tsp my liquid calf rennet. It gelled immediately and I realized it was too much. Despite all this it made a wonderful stretchy mozzarella (but not particularly moist). I am one of the lucky ones who has never had a failure with mozzarella. Seems to work out despite me. But I am always using raw milk. That probably helps. Thanks for the advice. Will keep on trying!
Susan
It's buried somewhere in one of my posts. Likely more like a few dozen posts over the years.
Basically
- after rennet cleaves k-casein, a-casein is exposed, which is hydrophobic, bonds to other a-caseins to form the matrix.
- that bond is facilitation by available ionic calcium (this is why we add CaCl2)
- The bond is essentially a calcium phosphate bond. aka colloidal calcium
As acid builds up, all those calcium bonds break. And the breaking of those bonds, coupled with the culture, and mix of proteins is what enables the stretch to happen. Stretching is breaking of bonds and reestablishing them. Heat makes the plasticization possible, lowers the energy threshold.
...and curd size with a good healing time before making horizontal cuts. I cut vertically and then wait 10 minutes or so before making horizontal cuts. I think it makes a huge difference in the moisture content and flavor.
I was taught to never add CaCl2 when making Mozz unless there is a real problem with the milk? Yes? On NECS's website, Ricki Carroll is now advocating a double dose of CaCl2 for overly pasteurized or problem milk.
Susan - your raw milk has tons of wonderful calcium ions floating around and it shouldn't take much calf rennet to kick the curds, but I personally would dump the Junket tablets.
Nitai- "Cheddaring".... do you mean as soon as my curds are cooked to hold the (drained) curds at a warm temp, like 90F, for some amount of time?
Harry- I end up testing for spin about every hour >:(; maybe every 2 hours in the beginning. I believe you're right- once we get the hang of it, seems like we can guess better when the "spin zone" is fast approaching. LinuxBoy has some nice info in his original recipe (link on top of my original first post) on guidelines for spin testing that support this general idea. BTW, could you post a link to whatever pH curve you found? Also, regarding the pH meter- my drained, cooked curds start leaking a little whey after a few hours, probably enough to sample- do yours? Or, can you just stick the probe into the cheese? Anyway, thanks for your feedback; glad these posts are helpful for someone else!!
LinuxBoy.... risking a dumb question... does too much rennet mean less final moisture?
Sailor- Thanks for the curd cutting tips. I need more moisture! For what it's worth, as a beginner, I have also read all over the place that one should NOT add CaCl2 when making Mozz, because it may inhibit stretch. On my third attempt at 30 min Mozz, I actually ignored this and tried adding CaCl2, and got the worst non-existent stretch ever. So I believe it!! Seems like I've read this confirmed in Fox or some other text as well...
Quote
LinuxBoy.... risking a dumb question... does too much rennet mean less final moisture?
No. Think about what the enzyme does. It destabilized casein, bringing it out of suspension in milk and enabling caseins to bond to each other. They form a matrix. This matrix retains water. The more enzyme, the faster all these reactions can take place (within reason, it's not like a linear reaction). And the longer the casein particles are stuck together, the stronger the curd matrix. So water retention is determined in good part by floc multiplier.
Scarlet Runner. The information is in the CF library. Here is the link
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,172.0.html. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,172.0.html.)
All I needed was a look at any curve and then I understood more about what is going on.
My curd does leak whey but the pH meter that I use has the sensor enclosed so it needs quite a volume in order to register a reading; for the same reason it is useless for taking a curd reading. The flat sensor would have been a better purchase.
I also have converted to Sailor's suggestion of using dried milk instead of CaCl2 and the resulting curd is very good.
Quote from: Scarlet Runner on April 15, 2011, 01:52:13 AM
Nitai- "Cheddaring".... do you mean as soon as my curds are cooked to hold the (drained) curds at a warm temp, like 90F, for some amount of time?
yup. Usually the drained curds are cut into slabs and stacked.
Taking everyone's advice on this thread, I sat down with a few pH curves from the library (thanks for pointing me to these Harry), LinuxBoy's original recipe, and my make notes to ponder. It's a bit dicey, given that I don't have a pH meter (yet) and I couldn't find a pH curve for a mixture of cultures that more closely resembles what I used in the recipe (a mix of L. lactis, L. cremoris and S. thermophilus- per recipe). But, this process gave me some clues that are helpful.
I notice the ripening time I am using is on the low side- I have ripened for 60 or 90 minutes, while both LB's recipe AND the pH curves indicate that this may be a bit short. So, next time aim for 120 minutes ripen time, to get me further out on the pH curve.
Second, I think I may not be draining my curds at the ideal pH target of 6.0-6.1, so I may try in the future cooking a bit longer at 104F to speed pH development.
And finally, the pH curves show that to achieve that final pH drop of about 1.0 units (to get from 6 to 5 for stretching) it should take 2 or 3 hours, depending on if I "cheddar" at 90F, or hold at room temp (72F).
So thanks all, for more ideas about what to try next time- I think I'll go for longer ripen time and then cheddar the curds at 90F first, and see where that gets me.
LinuxBoy: One point of remaining confusion. Your recipe notes it is important to drain the curds within ~2 hours of adding buttermilk culture
QuoteIf making as an overnight recipe, the important part is that you drain when the whey pH is at or below 6.2 (ideal range 6.05-6.1), about 1.5-2 hours from adding buttermilk.
but that seems too short a time to ripen for 90 min, floc time, curd cut, and cook. Am I missing something?
QuoteSo, next time aim for 120 minutes ripen time, to get me further out on the pH curve.
This will give you more casein solubilization while the milk is liquid, tends to make for an easier and more reliable stretch. Commercially, it's not uncommon to rennet at 6.3 for mozz.
QuoteI may not be draining my curds at the ideal pH target of 6.0-6.1,
If you drain too high, there's too much calcium and it will inhibit proper stretching.
Quoteit should take 2 or 3 hours,
Anywhere from 90 minutes (for 3-4% culture) to 24+ hours. That's why I recommend testing for spin at home. Easier to time in a plant.
Quotelonger ripen time and then cheddar the curds at 90F first, and see where that gets me.
Sounds great.
QuoteYour recipe notes it is important to drain the curds within ~2 hours of adding buttermilk culture
No, I indicate that it is important to drain at specific acidity, and it takes "about" 2 hours. Timing here is secondary, wide variety of possible curves. Acidity is key.
Thanks for all the great feedback, linuxboy. And all the attention to your recipe in the first place. I'm excited that I'm really learning Mozzarella.
QuoteAnywhere from 90 minutes (for 3-4% culture) to 24+ hours.
Your comments point out one more insight for me: that of course, those pH curves that we look at in the library are for a particular starting dose of culture- and the dose I'm using in the recipe may be different or not. So, again- one more argument for a pH meter. But it's so much fun stabbing around in the dark!!